posted on November 20, 2000 09:39:14 PM
I am wanting to go with another online center to replace paypal, but I would like one that does not have to have banking info and will mail a check. Any suggestions? Any experiece with ecount?
posted on November 20, 2000 09:50:11 PM
I just closed my account with Ecount. They charge you $1 every time you want to withdraw money. Only one customer used them - and you have to pay to put money in your account, you have to pay for a debit card (if you want one), there are charges for everything.
Payme, Payplace, X.Com are all out of business as of December 1st, so they are out.
I like Yahoo PayDirect and ExchangePath the best. Don't know if they will just mail you a check though without a bank account.
posted on November 21, 2000 01:09:10 AM
Folks- in terms of online payment options, this is simple- there are 3 (in no particular order)
1. billpoint by ebay
2. paypal
3. yahoo paydirect
payplace, payme, etc. are setting the trend for what will happen to the undercapitalized late comers- they will disapear as they lose money each transaction. doesn't take an mba to figure out offering a service for free is unsustainable. for example, cmgi is dumping its unprofitable startups as we speak- i would guess exchangepath is the next victim.
a few other notes:
-paypal has 5 million users- you're going to see many more complaints as there are sooo many more users than any other payment services (what's 1% of 5 million versus 1% of 50,000?)
-paypal encourages users to hook up their bank accounts to their paypal accounts not as some insidious scheme to steal your money but to lower fraud which is easiest and often through a credit card- in the end, they're trying to stop these criminals which will result in lower fees for all in the long run
posted on November 21, 2000 04:01:17 AM
Ecount will not mail you a check, they go with ACH transfers. BillPoint has been recommended, they won't mail you a check either, ExchangePath will not mail you a check, nor will PayDirect.
PayMe.Com and PayPlace.Com would mail you a check. The bad news is they've failed to remain open.
Taking electronic payments in the 21st centry and then requiring them to snail mail a check to you like in the 19th century is going to be increasingly rare, if not impossible. Money Orders is what you are looking for.
posted on November 21, 2000 05:24:38 AM
ExhangePath won't mail you a check. But if you can live with that they the the absolute greatest. Easy to use. They don't lie. They allow you to accept VISA, MC, American Express, Discover, and Diner's Club. Even if PlayPal reverses course at some point (I'm a dreamer) and becomes decent, honest, and free again I wouldn't give up ExchangPath for them.
posted on November 21, 2000 05:41:28 AM
According to the Ecount fee page they do mail you a check and will mail it to a PO Box, but they charge you $1.00 to do so. (Smart - this makes you leave your money in there longer so they can earn interest on it)
Electronic transfer is not an option for me because of my Credit Union's rules. I would have to open another brick & morter bank account just to use those services that only do electronic transfers. That would mean a minimum balance to be maintained, checks to buy etc even if the bank did not charge any service fees.
My only complaint I have had with PayPal is that they won't mail my checks to my PO Box without me giving them my bank account number. Their two little "test transfers" into my bank account would cause that account to be closed! Not worth it.
posted on November 21, 2000 07:56:42 AM
I had money in Ecount and the only option I had was to have a check sent to me and I was charged $1.00 to do that. Is there a way to do a bank transfer for free that I don't know about?
posted on November 21, 2000 08:21:36 AM
I just went to PayMe's site. I couldn't find anywhere stating they were shutting down. Someone help me find this. I went to the PayDirect site and it redirected me to PayNow. That was a dead-end. Help, someone? Thanks.
posted on November 21, 2000 08:51:13 AM
Hi, Yisgood. Thanks for the info. You might add BidPay.com, it's great for international customers.
I disagree with your take on Yahoo. I haven't encountered a chargeback yet, but every question I've emailed to Yahoo has received a fast (within 24 hours) polite and helpful response, from a real human being. Not a "canned" response either. I am so jaded from online business that when I see a customer support reply actually penned by a human being, it knocks me flat out.
As far as Paypal, I could give $20 to the wino on my street corner, write "Happy Birthday!" on the bill, and that money would be safer than at Paypal. Paypal has locked up my account for over a month because of a $15 dispute (package lost in mail). They continue to accept payments in my name, but don't give me the option to refuse or return the money to customers. I am being forced to mail out a month's worth of sales without receiving any payments. I have repeatedly told Paypal to issue a refund from my account, but they ignore my emails and still threaten me with canned notices.
And for the record. Paypal does not force sellers to verify for anyone's security but their own. The only reason verification is needed is so Paypal can go into your bank account and reverse a payment. Don't kid yourself, sister!
posted on November 21, 2000 09:10:10 AM
>>Hi, Yisgood. Thanks for the info. You might add BidPay.com, it's great for international customers.
I disagree with your take on Yahoo. I haven't encountered a chargeback yet, but every question I've emailed to Yahoo has received a fast (within 24 hours) polite and helpful response, from a real human being. <<
Thanks for your info, I had typed "Bidsafe" instead of "Bidpay".
I have added a paragraph to the start of my review of Paydirect.
"Note: My warning on this service is not because of many problems reported. So far, very few problems have been reported. My warning is because of potential problems. Maybe I am being paranoid but due to the many horror stories I have heard in general about the scammers out there, I prefer to err on the side of caution. I suspect that there are scammers out there just looking for a weakness in the system to exploit. Sooner or later, one will find Paydirect and tell his friends and then all those who accept it, watch out."
I am glad you got a human being. My first question to them was answered with "thank you for your suggestion." I still have problems with a site whose TOS states that you can not charge back and then later says charge backs will be charged to the recipient. This kind of contradictory term reminds me too much of Paypal. And their response to me makes it clear that if there is a charge back, they will do nothing but pass it on to the seller.
"In answer to your inquiry regarding reversal of Payments: If a Payment is funded fraudulently, or the funding transaction is charged back by the credit card holder, the Payment would be reversed."
Since a charge back can be made several months after receiving the merchandise, a personal check is a safer method of payment to accept than paydirect.
posted on November 21, 2000 09:38:11 AM
Before I joined Paypal, I longed for a merchant account so I too could accept credit cards. Oh, the joy of Visa and MasterCard. Now I feel like I sat on a porcupine.
Here's an interesting payment model. I used to live in Israel and I remember a little market in a town of German immigrants. No prices were marked. Customers brought goods to the counter, and an entry was made by the shopkeeper in a tiny notepad. Profit was a flat 6% of the seller's cost. No money changed hands until the monthly reckoning. The idea of profiteering was absent.
I can tell you I was shocked to observe this practice. "What about the money?" The real beauty of that system was its simplicity, and the mutual trust of the participants. So nice, and I'll probably never see another model like it. The experience serves as a reminder, though, when I deal with eBay, Paypal and the like.
posted on November 21, 2000 10:00:44 AM
Wow. You can email me and I can tell you a story about an old woman who chased me all over Machane Yehuda trying to buy my watch.
I think that honesty in general on the Net is very high. I have never received a bad check. In hundreds of transactions, I have never had a charge back with any of the services.
But the reality of the Net is this:
-reporters like a story and anything about the net is news. They jump on every report of fraud and play it up so people think the net is inherently unsafe. It is not much different than the sensationalism of the press everywhere. Americans think that it is unsafe to walk the streets of Jerusalem and Tel Aviv, while folks there think that it is unsafe to walk the streets of NY.
-folks love reactions, so every time a fraud story comes out, someone feels they have to react. Someone got cheated by a Paypal seller? Let's change the PP TOS to allow charge backs! A more reasonable response would have been to create a PP department to review complaints. But they opened a huge can of worms. They forgot to take into account a) that buyers outnumber sellers. For every crooked seller, there are many more crooked buyers (just the law of averages). The FBI report that says over 40,000 cases of Internet fraud is reported each year also says that less than 1,000 of these are real fraud and the rest is just disputes or buyers who didn't read the description. b) the Internet makes people want instant solutions to their problems and if a charge back is faster than an investigation, that is what they will choose if offered the option.
Can you imagine this scenario? Someone tries to cash a check at a bank but doesnt have ID. Yes, they were entitled to that money but the rule is there to protect everyone. They scream fraud and a new law is passed that any time someone has a check, the bank must cash it without ID. Now those few people with checks and no IDs are happy, but thousands of people having their checks stolen and cashed are not.
This is pretty much what PP did. They solved a small problem by creating a bigger one. Then they got so caught up in the snowball that this caused that they changed their TOS to the point that their own employees can't follow it.
posted on November 21, 2000 02:38:42 PM"They forgot to take into account a) that buyers outnumber sellers. For every crooked seller, there are many more crooked buyers (just the law of averages). The FBI report that says over 40,000 cases of Internet fraud is reported each year also says that less than 1,000 of these are real fraud and the rest is just disputes or buyers who didn't read the description.
That is very true. I've bought many items at eBay and never had a problem. I have had many problems with customers. In another thread I noted that out of 50 packages "lost in the mail," only two ever came back as undeliverable.
Did you read the Forbes article in the other thread? What a load 'a hoopla.
"Can you imagine this scenario? Someone tries to cash a check at a bank but doesnt have ID. Yes, they were entitled to that money but the rule is there to protect everyone. They scream fraud and a new law is passed that any time someone has a check, the bank must cash it without ID. Now those few people with checks and no IDs are happy, but thousands of people having their checks stolen and cashed are not."
Can I imagine it? I live very near Palo Alto. Banks here are starting to pick up on the Paypal model. When you open a new account, you must leave the bank a copy of your house key. For verification. Of course, the banks are quick to reassure customers that they will NEVER break into your house and rob you blind.
posted on November 21, 2000 07:15:02 PM
What am I missing here? I have two US customers send me a MO via Billpoint Western Union. Just had a second Non-US customer send me a Western Union money order. Please tell me , not kidding here, what is the catch? (Not that I am naturally suspicious, mind you!)
posted on November 21, 2000 08:12:06 PM
Can someone please tell me why they expect that Exchangepath with not follow the direction of either Paypal or Payplace and swiftly?
posted on November 21, 2000 08:35:20 PM
Open an online bank account.
Gomez.com has info on a number of these and they are low or no cost in most cases. Some have minimum balances, some don't.
Transfer your funds regularly from Paypal to the online account, move them from the online account to your own brick and mortar bank by check.
This way Paypal has no access to your real account so the possibility of a reversal is nil unless you leave funds in your online bank account. The amount subject to "freezing" is only those funds that are at Paypal while you are awaiting transfer acceptance by your online bank.
Finally be prepared to pull the Paypal link and text from your auctions at the first sign of trouble so additional funds are not flowing into a locked up account.
posted on November 22, 2000 12:18:58 AM
I want to thank all of you on this thread that suggested Exchangepath.com! I signed up with them and no sooner done an auction winner e-mailed and asked about paying with CC through PayPal - was it secure. I gave him YISGOOD's link (thank you!) and also Exchangepath's link and told him to read these and make a choice. Shortly after I received notification of payment from Exchangepath! (Smart guy!) We've added to all of our listings with the same information.
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Also for those PayPal diehards, here are your new rates as of December 1st:<br><br>
Notice Date: November 16, 2000
Effective Date: December 1, 2000
In order to better align the fees for using PayPal with the costs of providing the service, we are revising the fees we charge Premier and Business accounts on December 1. We are reducing the variable rate for receiving non-credit card payments from 1.9% to 1.6%, and we are lowering the maximum fee for such a transaction from $9.50 to $5. At the same time, we are increasing the variable rate for credit card payments from 1.9% to 2.2%. A flat fee of 30¢ will apply to all transactions, and this will be the only charge on transactions under $15. On a blended basis, the new variable rates average to our current 1.9% fee. However, the new fee structure provides an opportunity for cost savings by users who prefer payments funded by a bank account or PayPal balance. In December, we plan to launch a feature that will allow payment recipients to further save money by limiting the kinds of payments they accept. These price changes were made only after a careful examination of the different ways we could incent people to help lower our credit card processing costs, and we are proud to say that PayPal remains the cheapest payment method around!
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They are not the cheapest now. Exchangepath didn't charge me a cent. And Billpoint is 2.25% for CC's with a 35 cent rate flat rate under $15. Damn close if you ask me. I'll bet in 6 months or less PayPal matches this or raises it even higher.
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Thanks again! We're thrilled!
posted on November 22, 2000 01:01:09 AM
On one of the posts above, it was stated that Exchangepath will not send you a check, which is true. But, they will credit your money to your debit/credit card, which I think is fantastic! Much faster than a check in the mail! So far, I'm very pleased with this service. Yes, perhaps it won't always be free, but I'm enjoying it for now! Highly recommended!
