posted on January 18, 2001 11:38:59 AM
I hope that this is not offensive to anyone, I am apologizing beforehand.
In addition to the many playbills, non-adult mags, movie posters and avon stuff we sell we also sell playboys. I read them for celeb interviews( I am female) and my husband has been a reader for years. We have had great sucess selling these magazines. But eBay recently crakced down on selling Playboys. They have this policy that only pre- 1980 Playboys, Hustlers and Penthouses in catagories that do not require a cc# to browse in. I have never understood this policy since there is no great difference between pre- 1980's and todays. I feel that a bidder should not have to put in a cc# just to browse our auctions. It is also quite puzzling to me that Hustlers and Penthouses are available in the pre-1980 catagory when they are way more graphic than pre-1980 playboys. We try to buy magazines to sell that will be collectors items to some. This policy also cuts down on our sales since they are not listed in the general search. Has anyone else had this problem?
posted on January 18, 2001 02:29:00 PM
You're right. It doesn't make any sense. But the proper solution is to require a credit card to browse all of the listings, both pre- and post-1980. These are adult items, and should not be accessible to kids.
posted on January 19, 2001 01:46:26 AM
Well I'm glad that someone out there is aparently on my side of this issue. I've had a couple of go-rounds with eBay on the subject of Playboy and if I may, here are a couple of exchanges with them. It began with a seller posting Playboy collector cards in the general area and not in the adult section without scans.
.....................
I have reviewed the information that you have provided and have determined that the member involved has not violated any eBay rules.
However, if you should have any additional information regarding this situation, please don't hesitate to send that to us and we will be happy to look into this matter further for you.
Regards,
James
>Thank you James for your response concerning #354107794. Attched you will find a scan of the cards in question. As you can see there is no doubt that if pictured, the auction would be out of category. If such items are alowed to be sold in the gerneral public areas so long as they are not pictured, would this not leave open the interpretation that it is ok to list Playboy items after 1980 in the general areas as long as they are not magazines, and as long as they are not pictured? That would leave the door open for Calendars, Videos, Collector Cards (such as these), Posters, Autographs, etc., etc. all containing nudity, to be allowable in the General areas. Once THAT door is open and swinging back and forth, in steps Playgirl items, Penhouse items, Hustler items and finaly porn or XXX items - other than magazines naturally. Even with magazines the rules are not easily interpreted. If a Playboy magazine cover prior to 1980 shows nudity and a scan of the cover is listed, should it be listed in the Adult area or the Pre-1980 area? What if there is no scan of the cover?
In order for yourself and others there to try and interrupt eBay's rules, you are going to have to be familiar with the thousands of items that 'might' be listed and become an expert in those areas. It seems
to me that the good intentions of eBay are completly diluted by having such hazy, complicated rules open to misinterpertation not only by sellers but by unknowledgeable eBay decision makers as well. Would it not be better just to state that ALL Playboy, Penthouse, etc. items be listed in the Adult area and be done with it? This would certinly put an end to needless judgement
calls and waste of hundreds of hours of employee's valuable time and at the same time let sellers know more exactly where they stand. Everyone is not going to be happy with such a ruling, but then is everyone happy now?
As a seller on eBay, I handle many diferent Playboy items from time to time other than magazines. Life would be so much better for both eBay and it's sellers if we didn't have to 'guess' at what catagory to list an item. One wrong guess and you get a warning. Two wrong 'guesses' and God help you. That's not only unfair, it's not good business. I have been reporting alleged violators of eBay's present rules not because I enjoy it but simply because I cannot compete if I must list items in the Adult area and others get away with listing in the Gerneral areas...like these cards for example. Having received a warning myself for listing in the wrong catagory, I cannot afford to start guessing at what catagory items should be listed.
I realize that you are in no position to address the issues I raise here but if I can prompt you to pass this on to a supervisor or department head...someone who IS in a position to consider changing or adjusting some of the rules and/or policies I would be most apprecitive.
Thank you.
Jim
PS. I was just informed that #353574183 is not out of catagory which makes no sense what at all. It is a December 1998 Playboy magazine with Katarina Witt on the cover. It is listed in the catagory 'Sports: Memoribilia: Iceskating. This would mean that I should be able to list the Playboy
magazine with Donald Trump on the cover under 'Books: Educational: Business, finance' and the ones with Jerry Seinfeld under 'Books: Non-fiction: Entertainment.' This is exactly what I mean about arbitrary decisions based on a total lack of knowledge of the items being put up for auction.
Hello Jim,
Thank you for writing back with these concerns. First of all I do apologize for not giving you the correct information. The auction in question that you reported is indeed not allowed in the general category. The User has been warned. Any playboy material will be moved to the adult category unless it explains in the description that it is not an adult item with adult images.
The only playboy items that are allowed in the General Category are playboy magazines that are prior to 1980 and are listed in the
corresponding category.
I hope that this information is helpful. Please feel free to contact me with any other concerns.
Have a great day.
Regards,
James
eBay Community Watch Team
Thank you James for your response. Unfortunately, it's a little more complicated than you state below. With Bay's policies as they are any nudity at all is not allowable outside of the Adult area which eliminates even more of the pre-1980 issues of Playboy, Penhouse and other magazines and items. There is far more nudity on the covers of magazines that are
pre-1980 than there is since then....which limitis Playboy magazines even further. Wouldn't it be better for eBay just to declare all Men's magazines or even all items containing nudity be placed in the Adult section and remove all the guesswork on the part of buyers and sellers? I've noticed that Auction Watch.com and Honesty.com, both imaging services, will no
longer support listings to eBay's Adult catagories because of eBay's new muddled and confusing policies with so many exceptions and differing opinions that a team of Philadelphia lawyers would have dificulty
determining what catagory an item belongs. Unfortunately for eBay, this only means that many sellers (myself included) will be using other auction sites who's rules are less confusing....which results in less revenue for eBay. Again, thank you for your response.
Jim
(James gave up and Samantha took over.)
Hello Jim,
Thank you for writing eBay. I can certainly understand your concerns.
If you would like to see a policy changed, you may want to write to "[email protected]". Although the policy may not change as a result of your email, they will be made aware of one members feelings regarding this issue.
If you have any further questions or concerns regarding this issue, please do not hesitate to contact us again.
Regards,
Samantha
eBay Community Watch Team
.................
EBay made the fatal mistake of asking my opinion on a survey. This is part of what they got from me.
How could we better inform you of eBay policy changes?
In addition to the above boards, notify each seller and bidder with a rating of 50 or more by email of any proposed changes in policy so they can voice an opinion. I was unaware of any changes to the Adult catagory postings until policy was changed in April, 2000. In my opinion the new policy is confusing, arbitrary, unequally applied, with WAY to many exceptions and inhibits freedom of choice. Make the Adult catagory available to the general public and allow individuals to determin if they wish to bid there. EBay is a venue - not a church or an exclusive country club. Why do you allow a very vocal minority to determine policy for the silent majority?
What specivicly could eBay do to improve its services and products?
First, get rid of the 10 minute 'cookie' in the Adult catagory. It serves no purpose what-so-ever other than to aggravate the bidder and seller by constantly having them sign in and provide a password every few minutes. Second, allow the posting of Playboy magazine and similar publications under the "risque" catagory or "men's magazines" rather than relegated to the 'pornographic' Adult section. Three. Allow the posting of photos, magazines, autographs, Venus deMilo, etc. that contain mild nudity in catagories accessable to ALL buyers...not just people who have credit cards registered with eBay. Some potential buyers do not have or use credit cards. Some who have them do not want to give the numbers to eBay. Why religate these people to the status of outcasts - people to be shunned? EBay uses the allegory of towns haveing certin activities limited to specific areas of the city. Isn't that the whole point of haveing catagories to begin with? Do cities fence in, barb wire and police these sections of town, making them accessable only to people who have a password and credit card numbers on file with the town? I would hope that eBay will revisit and re-evaluate its policies in these areas and return to being the best place to buy and sell for ALL people, rather than drive your customers to transact business on other auction sites resulting in a loss of revenue and reputation. Thank you very much for asking my opinion.
....................
Sorry to make this so long but I didn't want anything to be out of context.
posted on January 19, 2001 05:54:14 AM
Well said, Jim!
This has been an aggrivation to me for quite some time. I too sell Playboys with little success here on ebay due to the adult catagory regulations, and I am very irritated when my 1990 magazine is hidden under a rock while listings for adult oriented jewelry and misc. items complete with graphic photos crop up all over the general sections. I see no need to have a pic of anything but the cover of the mag on my auction, and these are tame. With the hit & miss policing of the site, those of us trying to abide by all the rules are punished while those who blatantly violate them make sales left and right.
sorry for the rant, but it does irritate the whatsit out of me.
kerrydaway here and there......
kerrydaway1 at that other place
posted on January 19, 2001 10:06:42 AM
I am so glad that other people dont understand this policy. The reason I was given for the Pre-1980 rule was because they were considered collectors items. Actually I have sold a couple Playboys that are considered collectors items to the people that buy them. Some of my playboys have gone for $50. I asked if they had actually seen Hustler compared with Playboy. IMHO, Hustler is way way more graphic. I feel that is the parents responsibilty to police the childs activities online. Obviously if a child wants any thing bad enough than something like a CC# will not stop them. I do not show any explicit pictures. If the cover looks even the least bit racy I will not put that up. Most buyers dont know to look in the adult section for these magazines and they do not want to put in a credit card to just browse listings.
posted on January 19, 2001 10:11:38 AM
Hello, all Playboy fans! I have had the same running battle with ebay over the Playboy issue for nearly two years. I have found the solution, however. For Playboys not allowed on ebay's main site (pre 1980), try listing in Yahoo under Books: Magazines: Other. You'll find about 2000 Playboy items listed there. Apparently, Yahoo is a little less Disney-ized on the Playboy issue. They're allowing it and Penthouse and Hustler and Oui. Searchable as well. I have had great success thus far listing Playboys after 1979 on Yahoo, and hope you will give it a try. Lower fees, no FVFs and bidders are coming.
Yahoo and eBay auction counts updated every Wednesday at noon:
The Wednesday Report http://www.dtmagazine.com/auctioncounts.html
posted on January 19, 2001 04:04:54 PM
I switched my playboy's to yahoo for awhile, but I'd seldom get more than a low opening bid, after several re-lists, and then half the bidders deadbeat out on me. No way will I pay yahoo even thier lower fees with that kind of record. I'll continue to fight the ebay games and list there, I hate having to put them in the "mature" section when I don't have graphic pics or language in my ads, but they call the shots....you can still go to the newsstand here and pick up playboy if you are an adult, I thought ebay required users to be adults. Don't understand what the problem is.
kerrydaway here and there......
kerrydaway1 at that other place
