posted on January 18, 2001 11:54:29 AM new
This is in rebuttal to sellers who complain because buyers don't give them a chance before leaving feedback.
I buy a widget on ebay. I recieve the widget and find some damage that was not disclosed in the auction description (NOT post office damage). I now start to form an opinion on the seller. None of them very good.
A)Didn't see it? -incompetent?
B)Doesn't care.
C)Doesn't think its important.
D)Deliberate ommission.
So I contact the seller and they say "Oh, so sorry, send it back and I'll refund". So right now I'm out the purchase price and the shipping charge. I also get to dig deeper in my pocket and shell out more money (not to mention time and effort) to send it back to someone whom I already don't have much confidence, hoping they will be honest/competent enough to send my refund.
Yes, it would be nice if I emailed you first and gave you a chance to make it right, and I normally do, but if it's obviously the seller's mistake, I don't feel an obligation to do so. Get it right the first time, and if you do screw up, live with it. A neg is not the end of the world.
posted on January 18, 2001 12:01:32 PM new
So in other words, "sellers are expected to be absolutely 100% perfect in every single way possible and there is no room for error. And if the DO make a mistake (like all humans do) they deserve a NEG even if they do all they can to make it right" ???
But BUYERS can:
1) Pay late
2) Not pay at all
3) Bounce checks
4) Pay with a Non-accepted payment method
5) Not pay attention to TOS
6) Try to change the seller's TOS to fit their needs
.... and sellers should just let it go because BUYERS don't make mistakes, right?
posted on January 18, 2001 12:05:27 PM new
A very wise person once said "It is more important to be kind than to be right."
Yes, I suppose you could make a case for leaving a negative if you feel the seller erred. But it isn't the kind thing to do, and it strikes me more about power and control than any pure motivation. Give the seller a chance first. Many of us do reimburse both-way shipping if the fault is ours.
I guess I'm sensitive to this because just today I received a neg from a buyer who claims I didn't respond to her complaint, when I never received any communication from her whatsoever.
posted on January 18, 2001 12:31:47 PM new"sellers are expected to be absolutely 100% perfect in every single way possible and there is no room for error.
No, of course not. Everybody messes up. I screwed up big time last night in my RL job. I'm sure I'll hear about it today when I go to work. I am willing to take the consequences for my actions. I'll fix what I can, but whatever I do is not going to make the mistake completely disappear. My point is simply that the buyer is not obligated here. Even if you fix it, you have caused the seller inconvience, delay, or trouble of some sort, and while it would be nice if they gave you a positive for resolving it, you should be prepared for whatever feedback you get, after all, it was your mistake.
posted on January 18, 2001 12:37:27 PM newSellers should just let it go because BUYERS don't make mistakes, right?
I like to think I hold myself to a higher standard. Just cause they screw up, doesn't mean its OK for me.
[ edited by BlondeSense on Jan 18, 2001 12:39 PM ]
posted on January 18, 2001 12:42:30 PM newLisa... A very wise person once said "It is more important to be kind than to be right."
Beautiful, thank you
I once forgot to ship, because buyer told me she would be away for a week and to not rush. So, I forgot! She wrote a lovely Email, to nudge me. I apolologized, and added a free item for her collection...She left me a magnificent Positive.
posted on January 18, 2001 12:44:56 PM new
Anybody can make a mistake. As long as they make an honest attempt to correct it, I'll be satisfied. Some of these people have hundreds of auctions going all the time. I understand how mistakes can happen. I've said it before, I don't give a hoot about feedback, I just do the best I can. On the other hand, it means a lot to some people and I won't be the one to mess up someones feedback without giving them a chance to correct what is probably a simple mistake.
posted on January 18, 2001 12:48:12 PM newbut if it's obviously the seller's mistake, I don't feel an obligation to do so. Get it right the first time, and if you do screw up, live with it. A neg is not the end of the world.
'Mistake' is the key word here. We're all human. We all make mistakes.
I thought negs were reserved for fraud, deliberate misrepresentation, non-payers and transactions that go really badly with no willingness to make things right.
posted on January 18, 2001 01:00:00 PM new
As much as a I luv my buyers, it's customers like you I can live without.
I just received payment from a customer who sent the wrong form of payment [back in mid Dec] due to her not reading my TOS that was in my auction, as well as my EOA email.
She sent a green *Domestic* USPS MO, which my bank will no longer accept.
My goods & $$$ were tied up since Dec 7th.
It was a mistake, she corrected that mistake, and I just left her a glowing positive feedback.
With any luck she'll become a repeat customer of mine.
As a buyer, I recieved an item that was damaged due to questionable packaging. The seller was extremely helpful and quick to refund via paypal. This is the most current feedback I have given.
Praise: Very helpful in resolving a problem, would buy from again!!!
I would too.
Reddeer, as a buyer, I have never left negative feedback, just two well deserved neutrals.
The point I can't seem to get across is: As a seller, if I received an accurate neg due to my mistake, I wouldn't whine about it.
Oh, well. Off to my RL job to take my lumps.
[ edited by BlondeSense on Jan 18, 2001 01:13 PM ]
posted on January 18, 2001 01:21:09 PM new BlondeSense
Sometimes I make a mistake, perhaps two times a year. I wouldn't dream of inconveniencing a customer for my mistake. Good customer service is what makes my eBay business successful.
For example, recently I shipped a berry bowl to a customer. I had a brain burp when I was packaging and I shipped her a bowl in the incorrect pattern. The customer let me know about the mistake by email. I told her she could keep the bowl I sent her by mistake and I put the correct bowl to her in the mail that very afternoon.
My customer is happy because I corrected the mistake with the least inconvenience to her. That is what is important.
My commitment to good customer service has reaped me significant financial rewards. I have a large and loyal repeat customer base that continues to grow as new buyers come online. Not only that, many of my repeat customers now only click into my auctions and the auctions of a few other dealers who possess the same high business standards that I do. These customers no longer do business with eBay dealers whom they don't know.
posted on January 18, 2001 01:35:10 PM new
"Kindness"? How about "enlightened self-interest"?
If you're not happy with an item and don't contact the seller to make it right, the person you're hurting most is YOURSELF. Neg if you want - the seller can in all honesty reply "Would gladly have refunded, but bidder never contacted me." and put it behind him. Meanwhile you're stuck - by your own choice - with a widget you don't think is worth what you paid for it.
This is known as "cutting one's nose to spite one's face." Of course, if feeling taken advantage of is more important than getting what you actually thought you paid for....I guess it's a pretty good deal. (This reminds me of my mother, who would self-righteously gag down an inedible restaurant meal rather than complain to the waiter.)
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Jan 18, 2001 01:37 PM ]
posted on January 18, 2001 02:10:26 PM new
I sell a lot of glass and pottery. I do my best to describe every nook and cranny, but once in a while I make a mistake. After all, if I never made mistakes everyone would be paying homage to me. There are three I can think of off the top of my head. I sold 6 bowls and after they were received, the customer told me there was a hairline in one of them that couldn't be seen but felt. I must have missed it. I divided the amount she paid by 6, sent her that amount and told her to keep the bowl. Another time, I described a plate as a dinner plate. Well I guess I haven't purchased dishes in a long time because it was a 9" salad plate. When she received it, she said she was disappointed and had bought another plate, the correct size for an X amount of money. I said all right and refunded the difference for what she paid for the bigger plate. (she had paid more for my plate) I had sent a glass item and there was a tiny piece missing from the item. I couldn't tell from the pictures I took, but took the customer at her word. I paypaled the amount she had paid back to her, sent an email telling her she had a refund and to keep the item. So I made three (although probably many more) mistakes. Someone may have thought I was being deceptive, but I wasn't. I just made a mistake.
I give 99 1/4% of my customers the benefit of the doubt when I am 99 1/4% sure some of them are embellishing the truth, but I don't go off on them. I do neg for non-payment, but not for slow payment or sloppy payment. I just want to get rid of the stuff. If I adopted the attitude to neg for what I felt was deceptive procedures by some of my customers, I would be doing it a lot.
As a buyer also, I give the benefit of the doubt to my seller because I know just what he/she is going through. Things happen. I have enough stress and hassle in my life to manufacture any more.
[ edited by llama_lady on Jan 18, 2001 02:11 PM ]
posted on January 18, 2001 02:18:56 PM new
I think BlondSense's post makes a lot of sense. Most folks I know who use eBay or any online auction site got their feet wet at the site by buying something before they started selling. Some folks never sell - just buy.
Picture BlondSense's scenario happening to a buyer their first time. That buyer's concerns are very real. Lots of people are apprehensive about buying things on the Internet and this one mistake on the seller's part could chase this buyer away forever.
Whenever I sell to folks with low feedback (ie, those who I assume are newcomers), I take extra-special care to make sure I keep the lines of communication open to make the person feel comfortable about sending that payment, and take extra care in inspecting and over-packing the item. It just makes sense.
posted on January 18, 2001 02:48:20 PM new
marble-even with all that you could miss something. It sounded like her buyer did keep the lines open and was willing to give her a refund. She just feels a person shoulden't make a mistake for any reason. If they do, even if they try to make it right, it isn't enough. That's just not fair.
The idea of one seller chasing a buyer away doesn't work for me either. If a person is that skittish they probably don't need to shop on the internet. I've bought a lot on ebay and other sites and all my experiences were not wonderful. It's like saying if you get a bad meal in a resturant you should eat at home for the rest of your life. No two sellers are alike and I have found most of them to be caring, honest people.
One of my few SNAFU's over the years was with a (0) feedback buyer. I missed a small area on a piece of pottery that had been restored, and the buyer caught it under a black light. They asked for a refund, which of course I agreed to. I sent them an MO for the high bid amount, and shipping both ways, and apologized profusely for MY mistake.
The seller was so happy for me "doing the right thing" that he left me glowing positive feedback & said he hoped all the sellers he dealt with on eBay were as honest & responsible as I had been.
As a seller I only leave negs as a last resort, as a buyer same rules apply, at least for me. I would never leave a neg on a seller unless they refused to offer me a full refund, even if the SNAFU was their fault.
Blondesense ......... I've never received a neg, & you won't hear me whining about one when I do.
posted on January 18, 2001 03:12:07 PM new
There are some people that can not be satified under any conditions. They hate life in general, and live to complain. You can offer them refunds, bend over backwards, and kiss their butt and it won't matter. The world is full of these people, and if you sell anything anywhere, you will eventually meet one.
They leave feedback without attempting to resolve the situation. This is because they thrive on unhappiness. They want the world to know how miserable their life is. We all know people like this in real life. The guy at work that does nothing but talk about how lousy his job is, and how he is going to quit. (but never does) Guess what !!! That's him that just left a negative for someone because the post office didn't deliver his package in time for Christmas.
posted on January 18, 2001 03:31:41 PM new
december3 writes:
"The idea of one seller chasing a buyer away doesn't work for me either. If a person is that skittish they probably don't need to shop on the internet. I've bought a lot on ebay and other sites and all my experiences were not wonderful. It's like saying if you get a bad meal in a resturant you should eat at home for the rest of your life."
Not exactly. It's like saying if your first experience buying something on eBay is a bad one, you might not bid at eBay anymore. And for eBay sellers, this is an issue.
posted on January 18, 2001 03:51:30 PM new
I think the problem is not that the seller offers a refund, but that they do not offer to pay return shipping on an "obviously" misrepresented item. "Obvious" is the key word here.
I once won a book, paid, and received a book of the same title, but in no where near the condition described. When I contacted the seller, they couldn't understand how that could have happened, but offered to refund my bid price(not including s&h) if I returned the book. So the net cost to me was to be $6.00 ($3.00 shipping each way)- - for nothing. As it was, the seller instead sent me another book of the same title, still not in the mint condition of the description, but in way better shape. So it only ended up costing me $3.00 extra to get what I should have gotten in the first place. Was a neg. deserved? Maybe, maybe not. Neutral? Probably, I'd asked for a refund, not another book. In the end I chose not to leave any feedback.
posted on January 18, 2001 04:47:38 PM new
HCQ, I can't help but think you've misread my post.
By talking about kindness, I'm NOT saying a dissatisfied buyer should just roll over and accept the status quo without a peep. By all means, a buyer should give a seller an opportunity to make things right. Most will.
What I do not endorse is the notion of leaving negs/neutrals "just because" something went wrong and after all, the seller must fit into the laundry list given above. Too many people are trigger-happy with the feedback button and I do not endorse using it for the purpose of retaliation or one-upsmanship.
BlondeSense, I like the example of the positive e-mail you left.
posted on January 18, 2001 05:15:15 PM new
BlondeSense, as a seller I agree with you. If the seller ships an item with undisclosed damage, and then expects you to return it at your expense, that sellers deserves negative feedback. That kind of flea-market ripoff mentality gives all eBay sellers a bad name. A "neg" is not the end of the world and will help the seller to provide better service next time. Good for you.
posted on January 18, 2001 05:28:59 PM new
Oh poo. I buy mostly and I sell some. I knew what ebay was before I started and so do most people. With that many sellers and buyers there a bound to be a few bad apples. I've had bad experiences with department stores. Most of us won't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Anyone can make a mistake, and if the seller makes things right they don't deserve a negative.
posted on January 18, 2001 05:51:55 PM new
Twinsoft
How would you suggest the seller should refund? Send the high bidder the cost of return shipping, and then send them the rest of the refund after the merchandise is returned?
posted on January 18, 2001 06:14:30 PM newllama_lady, possible deception by the seller is not the issue here. Whether by accident or by design, if the seller fails to accurately describe the item, the seller should provide a full refund including shipping both ways. This isn't rocket science. Why should the bidder be out of pocket because of the seller's mistake?
reddeer, the customer is obliged to return the item first, so seller can verify the damage, etc. And not all the CDs I sell go for $5 bucks. One of my first sales was a copy of Microsoft Office for Mac, that went for nearly $200 bucks. The buyer complained the disc didn't work. I had verified it DID work before I sent it, and when I got the disc back, I checked it again on a different Mac computer and it worked on that computer too. Considering the buyer took six months to get the disc back to me, and it worked fine, I chose not to refund. I sent the disc back to the customer. My first neg. feedback.
posted on January 18, 2001 06:34:51 PM new
Twinsoft
I suggest you go back & re-read the initial post on this thread. Nowhere did they state the seller wasn't going to refund shipping, just that they would be out of pocket yet again until the refund came in.
And that was the point I was trying to make.
So I contact the seller and they say "Oh, so sorry, send it back and I'll refund". So right now I'm out the purchase price and the shipping charge. I also get to dig deeper in my pocket and shell out more money (not to mention time and effort) to send it back to someone whom I already don't have much confidence, hoping they will be honest/competent enough to send my refund.
posted on January 18, 2001 06:46:13 PM new
Reddeer, I'm not sure we're on the same page. Nowhere did the seller state they WOULD refund shipping, EITHER WAY. That is what I was addressing. Perhaps we need to clarify this imaginary scenario before we go at it some more. But now I have a dinner date and I must run.
posted on January 18, 2001 06:55:43 PM new
I was only commenting on what the originator of the thread did say, not what they didn't say.
The seller said to return it & they would refund.
"Oh, so sorry, send it back and I'll refund"
I didn't read that as saying they would only refund the high bid amount, and by the overall attitude of the original post, they didn't seem to care one way or the other, they felt the seller deserved a neg.
Afterall, the first sentence in this thread is:
This is in rebuttal to sellers who complain because buyers don't give them a chance before leaving feedback.
posted on January 18, 2001 08:28:09 PM new
Heck, the poster expresses the view than any seller who makes a mistake deserves a neg -- with no opportunity to fix the error!
Yes, it would be nice if I emailed you first and gave you a chance to make it right, and I normally do, but if it's obviously the seller's mistake, I don't feel an obligation to do so. Get it right the first time, and if you do screw up, live with it. A neg is not the end of the world.
posted on January 19, 2001 12:27:36 AM new
Let me try this one more time.
Vargas No, I am NOT saying any seller who makes a mistake deserves a neg. What I am saying is a seller who messes up does not have a constitutional right to a second chance.
I buy and sell on ebay. I wrote the original post from the point of view of the buyer, but the point I can't seem to get across is that, as a seller, if I screw up and cause a buyer inconvienence, aggravation, or doubt about buying again on ebay, I don't feel that the buyer is obligated to let me fix it. If they are nice enough to let me correct it, I appreciate it and will do the best I can to make it right, but I won't whine if the feedback is less than positive for something that was originally my mistake.
[ edited by BlondeSense on Jan 19, 2001 01:46 AM ]
