posted on January 20, 2001 07:43:12 AM new
I had Waaay too much time on my hands last night so I decided to research my deadbeat influx. Using feedback forum, I found that I had to leave 16 negs and 5 neutrals in the last six weeks. In the TEN months prior to that, I had left a total of 3 negs, 2 neutrals. Using FF, it also tells me if these db's are still out there. Each and every one of them is. Some of them are operating with neg feedback but they are still registered users. Sellers ~ have they bid on your auctions? Buyers ~ are you losing auctions or being bid up by these DB's?
This is a plea to all sellers ~ please file NPB's ~ you deserve the money back on your auctions so file your FVF's. Please help me to weed out the bad guys ~ some just need a 30 day suspension and some need to leave our community all together.
Let's Clean Up The Hood!
Can anyone out there let me know why they wouldn't file for their money back? I'm confused thanks.
posted on January 20, 2001 08:37:33 AM new
My TOS say payment must be received within 10 days of EOA. On the 10th day (if it's Sunday or a holiday I give it another day or 2) I file my NPB Alert. By then if they don't pay it will already be close to 3 weeks before I can relist/file FVF.
But I always file and I do leave negative feedback.
posted on January 20, 2001 08:45:20 AM new
I use negative feedback and the NPB's religiously. Why aren't others using it? It will deter the deadbeats and alert other legitimate sellers of potential problems.
Use the priveledge or lose it. Also file the FVF's when needed and get your money back from bad transactions too. Don't be in the middle of the road with an 18 wheeler comin' at ya'...
posted on January 20, 2001 09:08:17 AM new
Come Monday afternoon, I have a total of 7 items to file on. These auctions ended on the 4th. I am trying to be patient with the holiday, but there really isnt reason that a payment should take 15 days to get here....
I honestly have never had this many non payers. But then again, I usually dont list everything that I have at the same time..I am hoping that the mail is just slow.
posted on January 20, 2001 09:30:05 AM new
I know there are some newbie sellers out there ~ or even not-so-newbie sellers ~ so please humor this post if you're an oldtimer and feel free to help educate our peers if you can add to it. If you are out there lurking and afraid to ask...
How can I help clean out the deadbeats? I dont know about FVF's and NARU's and NPB's and all that other gibberish .
Summary on "Bye Bye Bad Guy":
How to do it: Sign In. Select My eBay. Click up top to Feedback Forum. On the feedback forum page, select all pending feedback and you will get a 90 days history of feedback that has not been left (as opposed to using "my eBay" which will only give you 30 days). If the auction has not been paid for, click on it and scroll down to where it says "Non-Paying Bidder". To file the NPB just fill in the necessary info. This will send your bidder a "reminder to pay your eBay seller" and will also be attached to their history with eBay. Write down the auction # and date for your future records. If, after 10 days, the bidder has failed to respond, again, go back to the auction, click on the "Non-paying bidder" and then click on "Final Auction Value". Once again, fill in the required info. This will credit your eBay fees back to you almost immediately. This adds a black mark for the bidder's account with eBay. These warnings on the bidders record add up ~ they are warned twice, the third time suspended for thirty days, and, if they don't learn their lesson, Bye Bye Bad Guy the fourth time these are filed. They have become "Not A Registered User" (NARU)
Many bidders are operating with negative feedback. There is a common misconception that filing negs will get rid of a DB. NPB's and FVF's work! If this is at all confusing or any one can add to it or simplify it, your input is appreciated....
thanks
(had to edit the smilies!)(and spelling!)
[ edited by chepistar on Jan 20, 2001 09:31 AM ]
[ edited by chepistar on Jan 20, 2001 09:35 AM ]
posted on January 20, 2001 10:02:15 AM new
chepistar; that was nice and simple. I must confess that I was one of those that thought the neg feedback alone would get them out. I sell a lot of vintage smaller ticket items, and the couple of times that I should have filed the FVF I thought it was too much trouble for too little money. I didn't realize I was helping these people continue their deeds. I've been very patient in my first nine months, but my resolution for 2001 was to give them 14 days for payment and act on it. What often happens is that they drag it out so long with excuses so long that it gets buried in the post management system and out of "sight out of mind". I will get it together this year as I too have experienced 3 npb in the last 30 days compared to only 2 in the previous 9 months.
posted on January 20, 2001 10:17:57 AM new
I file all NPB's and FVF's no matter how miniscule the amount. This month I've filed four NPB's and had to file FVF on three of them-and each one got NARU'd (hence why I file neg feedback before I file FVF).
It's a little nervewracking to do your part, but after the first couple of negs and FVF's, it gets easier. I am very grateful to all sellers who also file so we can get deadbeats NARU'd as quickly as possible.
posted on January 20, 2001 10:30:08 AM new
Yes...NPB followed by FVF cr, followed by NEG. It is important to follow all of these steps, as many NEGS are generic, and do not automatically lead to the NARU status. Speaking for myself, I ask that they: 1) make contact, 2) they MAIL payment within 7 days of EOA, thus allowing another 6 or so more days for mail delivery, since there is no way to control how well Post Offices will work...
******** Gosh Shosh!
posted on January 20, 2001 10:59:43 AM new
I also always file NPB's & FVF's for my deadbeats. I have a bit of a problem now though in knowing what to use as a reason for one of my auctions.
Auction ended on Dec 30, sent end of auction, Jan 1 received email from Paypal (which I do not accept), I wrote to the high bider & explained this and gave other options. Now it's Jan 20 - I have still not received payment (in the snail mail) and there has been no reply to my emails asking about this. What would be better to file - bidder didn't send payment or bidder did not follow sellers TOS?
posted on January 20, 2001 12:41:03 PM new
Now I'm confused. What's the correct order?
1. NPB alert
2. FVF credit
3. Post negative feedback
It seems steps 2 and 3 are interchangeable, but somewhere in one of these threads I read that for negative to count for anything, like NARU status, (if in fact they do at all), NFB needs to be left AFTER the FVF.
So, just to clarify, what is the correct order?
Also, does anyone know why some items immediatly come off the data base after the FVF, while most stay on for 90 days (apparently now they can stay up for 90-120 days) Just trying to elimiante the risk of retaliatory negative feeback.
posted on January 20, 2001 01:15:35 PM newmotive8
You remember your threads well! Actually, I was the one who wrote that order on the other thread! I didn't want to confuse anyone ~ here's the deal: if you file the FVF first, you run the risk of not being able to post the neg because the bidder may become immediately NARU'd. If he's going bye-bye for good, no biggie that you never get to neg him. If he's only being suspended for 30 days, the risk is that now he is back with no neg to warn anyone. SO if you do the neg first, yes there can be a retaliatory neg left for you. If you remember the other thread, most newbies use my eBay to post their feedback. I'm getting pretty deep into my own head here so bear with me. Depending on the particular bidder you have to make the judgement call of the retaliatory neg. IMHO, if it has been over 30 days and the bidder is relatively new, I will most often post the Neg First. Hope I didn't confuse anyone with that rambling .
equestrian
I would do did not send payment ~ isn't it TOS for EVERY auction to actually fork over the bucks It's not like your TOS were out of the ordinary in that respect! Unless your terms said "Must repeat tens times: I will pay for this auction, I will pay for this auction, I will pay for this auction, etc"
Best of Luck!
posted on January 20, 2001 05:42:07 PM new
I also thought that just giving a neg helped get someone NARUed. I haven't filed because the amount is so low for me that it isn't worth the time. Also I wasn't exactly how to do it. Thanks for the good simple directions. But I have been getting a lot more deadbeats lately. After reading this post I will start filing. I get so aggrevated at these deadbeats because of the time it takes to keep after them. One thing - how long do you have to file and receive the FVF. Is it 30 days or 45 days? Great thread!!
posted on January 20, 2001 09:42:36 PM new
A question...I sold a ceramic piece, value about 30.00. Before I could mail it, it was broken. I refunded the sellers money. Since the sale wasn't completed can I file for a FVF? I hate to pay eBay for a sale that never happened. If I can file, what reason would I use.
posted on January 21, 2001 06:00:34 AM new
McJane -
You can file the NPB, and there is a selection that covers that kind of problem. The high bidder WILL get a letter from eBay lettingnthem know the transaction is voided.
then you file the FVF and there is no damage to the bidder's reputation.
And I file ALL necessary NPB and FVFs ... no sense letting them run amok and harm other sellers.
posted on January 21, 2001 09:12:40 AM new
I have been selling on Ebay for over a year. NPB's rarely work except to get your money back on a refund. Let me explain my reason for this comment.
In October of 2000 I had one person win 33 of my auctions in a row. Obviously this person "[email protected]" did not pay. Total for me was over $3,000.00. I started the NPB mess and it took 3 weeks to clear it up so I could relist my items. I did some research and found this same person had won auctions for more than THREE MILLION DOLLARS. She bid on Rolex watches, Ford Mustangs ($45,000.00) and so on. When I complained to Safe Harbor they simply suspended this person. However, this person has been playing this game for over a year under many different names. Names like "Airwear", "[email protected]", [email protected], "Airknee", "Airpad" and on and on. Ebay continues to allow this person to register again and again. So HOW do you clean it up when Ebay does not do their job?
[ edited by mulberry912 on Jan 21, 2001 09:20 AM ]
posted on January 21, 2001 09:15:27 AM new
Amen to that. I keep very good track of the non payers etc...and file for whatever refund, even for very small ones, it is just that we have to weed out non payers.
Keep it up!!!!
posted on January 21, 2001 07:23:22 PM newmulberry912
I feel for you ~ the crook that found you, we can not easily stop. IMHO, it takes a deviant mind to relate to one and we just don't have the right stuff. What a racket that guy is into! High ticket sellers really have special needs that eBay should address.
lurkers
The system can not work if we don't use the tools we have available to us. Here's a relativity example:
We should be trying to control the shoplifter who hurts all of us(sellers and buyers alike) not the murderers(who effect a select few dramatically).
going back to the top for visibility
posted on January 22, 2001 03:51:15 PM new
all sellers should NPB and give NEG feedback to all who do not pay...that way the deadbeats can only stiff 4 sellers before E-bay suspensions them..i have 40+ feedback & just started to sell-- 2 of 9 buyers will not pay--i will NPB & give them NEG so you will know when they bid on your item
posted on January 22, 2001 08:00:39 PM new
How about if someone backs out and has a valid reason...such as losing their job. I've had 2 buyers back out on 1 item now for that reason! Both buyers have all positive feedback in the past.
posted on January 23, 2001 05:51:46 AM new
I really should count my blessings. I've been reading threads for months on buyers that do not pay and always marvel. I've been selling on eBay for over three years now and have just 1 person that never paid. I think that is amazing!
I did file NPB and for credit then left my one and only neg.
I have had a few people drag their feet, but they did eventually pay up.
I even had one person who took 6 weeks, but only after emailing and explaining that he had just "discovered" ebay, bid on a bunch of stuff and actually won them. Then realized how much he'd spent and didn't have all the money. He emailed all sellers and asked us to be patient and that everyone would be paid on a first won basis.
I was more than happy to help out a "newbie" and he promised he would be much more responsible in his bidding after that.
posted on January 25, 2001 05:57:02 AM newThis Just In
Didn't know which thread to post this on...
has anyone else found a correlation between their Power Sellers logo and NPB's? I'm curious as to whether my influx is related to the "newbies" who get the confidence to bid because they see that. The timing makes me think so but it was also Christmas and there are to many variables like...
How about this
Have you found any relationship between "Buy It Now" and non-paying bidders? Seems like too much impulse buying going on.
Curious if you can pinpoint either of these since Xmas, Power Seller logo, and But It Now were all around the same time for me!
Thanks!!!
kick the soapbox out from under me I'm outta here
chepistar
posted on January 25, 2001 06:08:29 AM new
I file NPBs early as possible. This eliminates any question that I intend to get paid and reimburses me faster for the deadbeats. If you haven't been paid by day 14, there's a good chance you won't be and the longer you wait, the less chance you have of collecting. Good bidders who get an NPB notice almost always get busy and pay fast. The others...well that's a different story.
If more sellers would file and followup, the deadbeat ratio on eBay would drop dramatically.
posted on January 25, 2001 07:35:38 AM new
Yes I file whatever whenever I can........ am new and have only 4 to date. I enjoyed reading this thread today. Brought a couple of questions to mind. Why are NRAU even allowed to deal? And I for the life of me , can't imagine why I would even want to cantact any NPB by phone( which will cost me!) to question closing a deal. Do any of do that? I have just filed NPB, waited the 10days and filed FVC. By then is it too late to contact second highest bidder? I feel like I have lost 2nd bidder after this much time.... but have never contacted one in my short tenure in ebay. Have any of you done so?
posted on March 19, 2001 06:23:29 AM new
sorry to have missed your post zewelj
NARU are suspended from bidding as a warning. If a returning NARU'd bidder is reported again, they can no longer bid (under that identity, anyway!)
The phone call contact is not for me ~ it is the responsibility of all eBay members to keep accurate info on file. If they are unresponsive to e-mails I'd really rather not waste my time with them. Sellers should NOT have to hunt and beg for payment from a winning bidder.
Since I am in the midst of two absolute wacko bidders, I thought it was time, once again, to ask for some help getting the loony tunes NARU'd! thanks!!!
>>>>To The Top<<<<
posted on March 19, 2001 06:41:44 AM new
just as an update...
I have now left 34 negs, only 7 of these bidders have been NARU'd although 16 are hanging with a negative FB rating.
Is it the retaliatory Neg thing that keeps you from filing?
Some of my numbers(using vranes)
negs left 2.63%
negs received .46%
need more info? I received 2 retaliatories(?one "retaliation" since it was a double whammy from the same bidder).
I received another "double neg" from a wacko.
If the "retaliatory neg" is what's keeping you away, using my record as an example, the retaliatory neg happens less than 5% of the time.
To further the point, I have filed over 50 npb's with one of two outcomes. Either (1)I get the pmt (yay) or (2)I file for FVF and get my $ back, hopefully so that another seller doesn't have to waste their time and another bidder doesn't miss out.
Filing has not raised my negs!!
Anyone else want to share some supportive info on this?
posted on March 19, 2001 07:41:13 AM new
I have had very few bidders not pay. Only 2
out and out refused (my only 2 negs come from bidders I never sold anything to ARRGG)
The others went on so long that I was no longer eligible for eBay credit on the sale.
Is the ability to file an NPB indefinate?
If not can someone write a step by step timeline incorporating eBay deadlines for filing such as:
Auction closes: XXXX
Bidder does not make contact within xxx days
File Now? or call)
Bidder makes contact but payment does not arrive within XXX
File now?
I do know that the NPB has to be on file for 10 days before credit is claimed. The problem for me is international transactions take so long that by the time it is clear that the bidder is a deadbeat, it is too late for eBay credit.
BTW: How many NPB's before eBay NARU'S?
I do believe in trying to call because the internet is flaky and anything could have happened. Also, in one case the telephone was out of service and eBay suspended the bidder immediately (I think the point of this thread, making deadbeats go away)
posted on March 19, 2001 11:31:58 AM new
exactly the point, naru, make the deadbeats go away.
You have 45 days from the end of the auction to file an npb.
You have 90 days to file for FVF.
Personally, after 10 days, I send a follow up e-mail informing the bidder that pmt has not been received. If there is still no pmt, I file an NPB around 15-20 days later. With the 10 day wait before I can file for FVF, the bidder has been given around 30 days to complete the auction ~ and plenty of opportunities to contact me if there has been a problem(medical, technical/computer , or otherwise).
Just my general timeline ~ but I don't ship internationally.
Thanks for helping make the bad guys go away
Sellers ~ have they bid on your auctions? 
Buyers ~ are you losing auctions or being bid up by these DB's? 
thanks. 
and afraid to ask...
.
or any one can add to it or simplify it, your input is appreciated.... 
I didn't want to confuse anyone ~ here's the deal: if you file the FVF first, you run the risk of not being able to post the neg because the bidder may become immediately NARU'd. If he's going bye-bye for good, no biggie that you never get to neg him. If he's only being suspended for 30 days, the risk is that now he is back with no neg to warn anyone. SO if you do the neg first, yes there can be a retaliatory neg left for you. If you remember the other thread, most newbies use my eBay to post their feedback. I'm getting pretty deep into my own head here so bear with me. Depending on the particular bidder you have to make the judgement call of the retaliatory neg. IMHO, if it has been over 30 days and the bidder is relatively new, I will most often post the Neg First. Hope I didn't confuse anyone with that rambling 
going back to the top for visibility 
