posted on January 20, 2001 12:36:01 PM
I would like to see a discussion of why Ebay has such a lock on the online auction business. There are plenty of sites around which can do about what ebay does, and some of them are practically clones - epier and auxpal, for example, so it's easy to move over to them.
The answer that comes to mind is that people are just used to using ebay. But Auctionwatch (are there any others?) reports on 30+ auction sites if I have it right; if they could get the message out that there is a different way to search for auction items, wouldn't it spread out the business among the many sites instead of leaving it concentrated at ebay?
I don't know how to go about saturating the internet with such a message, but the well-heeled and smart people who own Auctionwatch surely do. So why is every auction site I've seen still like an empty room compared with Ebay?
If it's not just inertia that keeps people on ebay, what is it, and what can be done about changing it? I don't dislike ebay, but don't like to see them have a monopoly.
posted on January 20, 2001 01:14:47 PM
Sellers stay where the buyers are. Even people who don't have a computer or have never bid on an online auction, know the name. If a person wants something they go to ebay because they know it's there. Most people have never heard of the rest of those places.
posted on January 20, 2001 01:28:12 PM
Yes... there are other auction discussion forums, but I think we're not suppose to outright name them here. *sigh*
(wouldn't want to send traffic to a "competitors" site, dontchya know... that might diminish AWs "name brand"
WWW. = What to do, What to do, What to do?
O = On my mind is another way
T = To let folks know of
W = Where buyers and sellers discuss
A = Auctions (in addition to A = Auction W = Watch discussion forum).
.Com = Communication is key for sellers and buyers discussing auctions on ALL auction discussion sites to get ORGANIZED with where some alternative sites might be beneficial in the long run.
eBay has extremely good BRAND RECOGNITION.
This is what keeps the sellers listing on eBay and the Buyers going to eBay to make their purchases.....
And of course as long as the Buyers are at eBay... the Sellers continue to list..... ON and ON and ON it goes!
THEN... it's tough to put efforts into a smaller site, only to have them SHUT DOWN after a year or two of hard work. After what happened at www.goldsauction.com , I think many folks just aren't in the mood to "take a hit on sales" for some SLIM HOPE of changing the fact that there is no other show in town!
Personally... I think eBay will continue until they run THEMSELVES into the groud, or the Government steps in and FORCES them to consider the COMMUNITY (which is footin' the bills for every bit of nonsense they "develop" anyway) before placating Wall Street with Buyer and Seller raping "Features" to justify their overpriced stock!
posted on January 20, 2001 01:28:29 PM
Until the Fed trust busters get involved, we need to accept the monopoly--I keep trying the other sites but find it just isn't worth my time. Unless a change is ordered and enforced, I just don't see much happening.
However, entrepreneurs seem to be positioning to take on the business when the order is given. When that day comes, sellers will be wined and dined and the red carpet will be rolled out!
This country doesn't like monopolies and sooner or later it takes action. I am frankly surprised that they haven't done anything about ebay yet. I don't see evidence that ebay management is particularly astute politically so it really is just a matter of time.
posted on January 20, 2001 02:34:30 PM
The government cannot take action unless they get complaints from eBay's competitors that they are actively seeking to restrict their business. Just by being the biggest does not mean they are restricting anyone else.
Why do you want to go to a auction site and look at three items in the category you are interested in. I went I looked and I have not gone back. Until sellers fill the other sites with merchandise so when buyers look there is something to see, eBay will remain the leader.
What can the government do tell eBay they can only have half the listings they do now. Boy would this board light up when folks crying that they cannot list their auctions.
[ edited by trkirk on Jan 20, 2001 02:35 PM ]
posted on January 20, 2001 03:04:15 PM
I just listed my first items with Auxpal, and I must say I am quite impressed with the site. All it takes is mass advertising. If I had a site I would run ads in major newspapers across the country. I have always thought the idea of paying to list an item is crazy. I would sooner have a higher FVF, and most sellers probally agree. Advertising is the key.
posted on January 20, 2001 03:57:47 PM
The catch-22 is that the free listing sites will not get far without advertising. But they can't spend money on advertising since they are not raking in any listing fees. So they only get merchandise that isn't worth paying a listing fee for. So if and when anything sells, they don't even get much of a final value fee. So they don't attract customers. (Keep repeating this process until you catch up to Golds.)
posted on January 20, 2001 04:11:37 PM
Jump on the Bandwagon. I have tried other auction sites for unique items to sell, and have not had much luck. My new approach to e-bay's Monopoly is to buy their stock. In Dec it was trading at arouond 30.00 or less, yesterday after the falling down house ads, the dog burying the cell phone ads, etc. the Stock hit 52.00, doubling my money, money made by selling on e-bay, so get in the fee business by collecting on e-bay's fee's. More than one way to beat a Monopoly, get in and make some cash. I am listing tonight, any suggestions for AW Pro to speed up...downloading images that are already in my system.....time remaining 42 minutes and I have deleted over 100 pics....Nanny Not Nannys Attic on e-bay
posted on January 20, 2001 04:56:01 PM
Ebay will end it's monopoly on it's own. As the cost of doing business on the site goes up it does two things. I know it is only a nickel and 1996 was the last one. I seem to remember one other. Oh well may be my failing brain.
Got lost there; back to the topic nickels. This starts to remove the five and dime seller. There are lots of them.
The other seller is the reserve lister. He paying more to list something who's chance of selling on eBay is dwindling. In other words is this person going to list items a $3-4 a pop. Yes the market for mid line and upper end collectibles is falling apart. Thanks eBay.
posted on January 20, 2001 05:01:02 PMThe government cannot take action unless they get complaints from eBay's competitors that they are actively seeking to restrict their business. Just by being the biggest does not mean they are restricting anyone else.
I'm glad somebody said that. The only reason eBay has a "monopoly" is because most people aren't interested in using the other sites. But there's nothing stopping the owners of those sites from competing with eBay other than their own lack of creativity, lack of advertising, lack of word-of-mouth publicity, etc.
I think Gold's Auction went under because it had a ho-hum name. Gold's. Makes me think of a gym. Had none of the savvy internet appeal and freshness of the name "eBay." How can people get excited about "Gold's"? I know it bored the hell out of me. I think Gold's even limited its potential by using the word "auction" in their name. Sure, eBay is auctions, but they don't say so in the name. The name "eBay" has come to represent a concept -- auctions, internet, unique items, all rolled into one. "Gold's Auction" sounds like something you drag yourself to a Friday night, hoping you can get a dusty box of books or something for cheap.
As for the other "competitors," like Amazon and Yahoo, I think they suffered because they were never exclusively established as alternatives to eBay. Auctions on those sites were johnny-come-lately sidelines to the bigger business. The corporate names had already been branded into the public perception by the time they got into auctions. You think Amazon, you think books. You think Yahoo, you think ISP.
Any worthy competitor to eBay will have to establish itself first and foremost as an internet auction site (but without saying "auction" in the name). They will also need to provide a few services and features that eBay doesn't -- 24 hour auctions? More than 45 characters in the title? Who knows?
eBay has already become a traditional way of doing business. A competitor will need to put a new spin on the traditional -- which is exactly what eBay did. Maybe not to the degree eBay did, but they'll have to come up with something special to form their own niche and attract users.
posted on January 20, 2001 05:22:23 PM
Trying to be fair, I went and checked out a few of the other auction sites. They have very few or none of what I collect. But hey, I tried.
posted on January 21, 2001 06:22:39 AM
I always check out new sites as soon as I hear about them. Unfortunately, the only things I tend to find are dollar store/wholesale "collectibles" (and I use that term very loosely ) and beanie babies. I've yet to find a new auction site that has what I'm looking for - vintage and antique collectibles.
Sellers (including me) don't want to risk what may be a one-of-a-kind or hard-to-find collectible on a site where they'll be lucky to get one bid.
posted on January 21, 2001 09:17:20 AM
Ebay advertises. That is the key. With all the grumbling ebay will get the business because even with the outages they still do a top notch job. I have searched other auction sites and found them to be very unfriendly so I go back to ebay where I know what I enter I will find. I feel the other auction sites are just a copy of ebay and never will measure up. Be thankful you have a place to sell there is to much grumbling here. This is my opinion.
posted on January 21, 2001 09:28:43 AM
eBay has what is called a "natural monopoly" ... or on the internet, the "firstest with the mostest" effect. It's inertia, habit, and luck. And playing catchup is hell, especially at net speed.
They were the FIRST effective auction site, and got a mass of users without even trying. By the time others noticed their success, they were a 1500 pound gorilla nd headed for a full ton.
posted on January 21, 2001 10:38:13 AM
People want to be associated with the number one brand. This is not unique to online auctions.
People want to show their neighbors and friends how "in" they are, they don't want others whispering behind their backs, "he sells on lowestbids.com, ha ha hahaha." They don't want to be asked questions like, "Hey Joe, how come you sell on lowestbids.com, I hear ebay is much better?" People's self-esteem is tied up into brands.
That's all at the root. Now what's stopping the mass of sellers heading over to a free auction site? A stampede has not started! A site has to reach critical mass before a stampede can begin. That requires 15% of the sellers from ebay taking a chance with possibly no favorable results, and listing and listing on another free site until critical mass. How do they gain critical mass in a new frontier of online markets? It's very hard to be noticed. Most sellers don't even know of any other auction site except ebay. The new site has to form a niche, and target their marketing in a different way. For example, Pepsi aims for the new generation, while Coke targets the traditionalist. Wendy's aims for adults, while McDonalds targets kids. Right now, these free sites are aiming for ebays target group, and they'll never succeed. Marketing requires a plan of not stealing the competitors market, but of creating a "NEW" market where people want to join.
People love crowds, and they love being part of that crowd. They'd rather park half a mile away from the mall, stand in line for thirty minutes, just to be part of that large crowd. It's insane, but aren't they cool?!
posted on January 22, 2001 09:40:59 PM
As I prepare to launch into a new business endeavor (no, it's not another auction site!) I have been researching marketing and you guys are hitting it right on the head. America likes to hang with winners. And eBay is considered to be a winner. When you list on eBay you might pay a little more but you are paying for the exposure. Sure, they might not be right all the time, but they are Mr. Big. Think about it. Do you buy your hamburgers at the little restaurant on the corner or McDonald's? AND we all know who's got the real beef! Also, name recognition is a huge item. What do you think of when someone says cola? fries? auction? For someone to take on eBay they would have to specialize in online auctions, have an awesome name, advertise ALOT and find a way to draw the buyers and sellers there. That would be a huge - but not impossible job. After all, there is room in this world for both Coke and Pepsi!
Until then, eBay will reign supreme. BUT didn't they start this all in the first place? I, for one, am thankful for eBay. Otherwise I would be trying to sell my movies for $5 each - or less!
posted on January 23, 2001 03:35:35 AM
Lobby Paypal to start an auction service. Since they already get a percentage of sales, they should be able to undercut eBay's fees.
That's your second post in a few minutes mentioning Paypal starting an auction service. That's scary. Such an idea won't get much support, especially around here. Screw Paypal.
The trouble is I'm too busy trying to make a living to invest much time or effort listing auctions on an upstart site. I've tried it here and there, now and then. Not enough action for the effort.
[ edited by loosecannon on Jan 23, 2001 04:06 AM ]
posted on January 23, 2001 04:59:11 AM
Seems to me I got something in an email about Paypal auctions but I have CRS (can't remember sh*T)so I maybe wrong.
Anyway to the topic at hand..There are about 100 auctions out there but how many have you ever heard of? How many have the buyers ever heard of? Ebay is a household word now.
Even if you go there many are not user friendly for browsing or else they have no variety. The catch-22 situation again.
IF all 100 joined together you MIGHT have a competitive site. IF Yahoo hadn't raised it's rates, it was growing into a competitive site, but only if it had also promoted it's auctions more.
IF the sellers form a co-op or IF someone comes along like Bill Gates with umpteen million to spend on promotion, otherwise I see no way that Ebay will have any real competition in the near future.
posted on January 23, 2001 05:10:59 AM
The major reason why Amazon and Yahoo have failed to reach their potential in the P2P auction market is that they made the auction a sideshow to their main site. I believe that if either had lauched their auction sites under a different (but related) name/domain, the results would have been quite different.
The number of internet users in the US doubled every few months from 1998-2000. This means that most of the potential bidders out there have very little internet experience. If you go to www.yahoo.com you find a search engine, not an auction site. You type in a search at the top and you get websites, not auctions.(yes, I know you can type auctions.yahoo.com but the 20 million newbies don't) If you go to Amazon.com you find a huge hodge-podge with almost nothing mentioned about auctions. (their is only a text link in the left margin. the 16th one down) You do a search there and you end up with Kitchen, Books, Movies, Z-Shops, etc. How is someone new supposed to find their way around that mess.
Now you have Lycos, and other sites trying what has already failed for others. Until one of them wises up, nothing will change. The established keystone sites such as Amazon, Lycos, Yahoo, etc. still have the best chance of providing a competitive site to Ebay because they have the traffic and the money.
As for the startup companies, most lack the funds to ever make an impact. There are only two ways to build a successful internet site. Start small and devote time and effort to building up the traffic, or start with hugh gobs of other peoples money to blow on advertising. With as bad as the last year has been on some of the dotcom's, I don't think you will see the latter for a while.
An auction site needs bidders, and the bidders won't come if there is nothing for sale. So how do you get sellers, when you have no bidders. Free listing are not the answer. Paying sellers to list may not be the answer either. (I remember a site last year that was paying sellers $1 an auction to list their items. Does anyone remember who this was?) The site needs to actively recruit sellers to fill the categories. These core sellers need to have the ability to run hundreds of auctions each week. They should be contracted to do so in exchange for stock / stock options. (one share of stock for every 25 auctions, or such) This would be the only way I would consider listing merchandise on a new site to help someone else build a company. My inventory is valuable, and needs to be sold. I (and most sellers) can not afford to have it sit around for weeks and months, just to help someone else get rich. Granted, if the site fails, the stock may become worthless. But at least their is a potential for a return.
The other possibility would be a series of niche auction sites. Each launch as sellers were secured. potteryauction.com, stampauction.com, ephemeraauction.com, etc. This would make it much easier for the collectors to find what they are looking for. I seem to remember a company that did this a couple years ago, and got quietly bought out by Ebay. Anyone remember?
posted on January 23, 2001 05:33:32 AM
To me it is different with eBay because it is not like the phone companies who I can switch and it will save me money and create more diversity and rate competition.I save money this way and take away from one so called monopoly.
If I switch off eBay I myself am not part of the "monopoly" anymore and I lose.I am not sure that if there is all sorts of different auction sites spread out all over the place it will actually help me as a seller?If I balance out the extra fee cost of getting customers through being part of the the "monopoly" and going to the others, will I not still be ahead being part of a monopoly?To me the buyers and sellers on eBay are the monopoly themselves not "eBay".My opinion only but it would be like cutting your own throat if you would wish eBay to be less than the best place to buy or sell.
--------------------------------- If I had money I'd be rich!
--------------------------------- My Bit
posted on January 25, 2001 07:55:50 AM
eBay's existance has devalued many items, because now anyone can have anything they want at anytime, as long as they have the money. For example, no point hunting around old record stores in odd locations for a rare 7" when it can be had at any time on eBay. Since it can be had at any time, there's no real reason to buy it. I suspect there is a bizarre sociological aspect to this.
While the profit in junk and antiques may go down, eBay has become a storefront for retailers of all kinds. If a large competitor actually took a bite out of the market, savvy sellers wouldn't abandon the eBay user base, but sell on both sites. Going (or staying) where the market is, is logical and profitable. eBay's strength is that it is a monopoly!! I make money because of eBay's monopoly, Out of the twenty million potential "registered" buyers out there, I only need a tiny fraction of a percentage to buy from me to keep happily profitable, cashing on a specialized market. So I'll enjoy it while it lasts, maybe six months, maybe five years. But if the eBay customer base were split between three equally sized auction sites, I'd have 3 times the work listing stuff, and probably a lot higher costs in listing fees. Right now I only need to list the item at one site, costing a single listing fee, to reach 1 buyer. If I have to list at three sites to reach the 1 buyer, because that buyer may be diverted to any of the three, that begins to subrtact from time and money.
Then there's impulse buys. I am a buyer as well as a seller, and it's easy and tempting to end up buying some crap that was never planned on. Specialized auction sites won't be so kind, if it's a "plastic widgets" only site, nobody can accidentally stumble onto my rubber widgets, and then impulse buy.
If eBay's centralized marketplace continues doubling in size every year, at 160 million users by 2003, something very strange will happen, and not just the amount of servers required for all this.
posted on January 25, 2001 08:24:41 AMFor example, no point hunting around old record stores in odd locations for a rare 7" when it can be had at any time on eBay.
Of course, on the flip side, it's always possible to say...
Because of online sites like eBay, I am able to find a buyer (or seller) for items in which there is minimal demand locally but enough demand globally to allow me to make a sale (or a purchase) that I otherwise would not have.
For a collector of fairly specialized items, living in an area in which there is little or no supply or demand for these items, online auction sites have been a tremendous benefit.
Oh well may be my failing brain.