Crystalline_Sliver
|
posted on January 25, 2001 11:10:22 PM
I e-mailed Safeharbor about an auction that might be violating US Counterfeit Law. I even refered the actual Title and section that the seller might be violating.
I've been given 5 canned responses, the seller hasn't been suspended or the auction ended, while the info is blantanly obvious and it seems ebay Legal is grossly uneducated.
Can anyone give me the e-mail addy for the Secret Service to report this, as this does concern about US Govermental Securities (to put it as broadly as possable without revealing specifics).
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
|
gc2
|
posted on January 25, 2001 11:36:26 PM
Doesn't the Treasury Department deal with counterfeiting?
If memory serves (and it doesn't always), the Secret Service is a division of the FBI.
|
magazine_guy
|
posted on January 25, 2001 11:42:03 PM
Secret Service does handle counterfeiting, with assistance from local law enforcement. They are in the Treasury Department.
Here's their web site (not so secret, are they?) 
http://www.treas.gov/usss/
Contact info is there.
Steve
|
Crystalline_Sliver
|
posted on January 26, 2001 12:42:22 AM
I dind't find the contact info about stuff on the internet....just a bunch of stuff.
Oh well, maybe the Field office is a good place to start.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
|
gravid
|
posted on January 26, 2001 05:37:47 AM
There are a lot of misconceptions spreed about counterfeiting. One is that it is illegal to alter money. It is only if it is with intent to defraud. I knew of a fellow who made jewelery out of silver coins and he was constantly bothered by experts at the gems shows who would tell him what he was doing was illegal. He got to where he had heard it so many times he would not even explain. He would just say so call the cops.
Some of the people got quite loud about it.
They did not want to call the cops they wanted him to agree.
|
abacaxi
|
posted on January 26, 2001 05:50:01 AM
Crystalline_Sliver -
Offering "fantasy money", like Clinton or Bush (or Pierre) dollars is not a violation. The fantasy money has to be clearly fake ...
Offering plates so you can print your own is definitely illegal.
Offering supplies (paper or ink) that would make it easy to counterfeit is a shady area ... and the tresury department is ALWAYS happy to check things out.
|
virginiarose52
|
posted on January 26, 2001 06:20:51 AM
Crystalline...in your phone book front cover there should be a phone number for your local Secret Service office. Just call and report it to them.
|
Crystalline_Sliver
|
posted on January 26, 2001 08:59:17 AM
abacaxi: That isn't the item in question. I have 15 Santa bills from my relatives that they gave me as a child in past Christmas. Several were from Safeway
The actions of the individual is offering isn't meant to defraud, but nonetheless, is illegal.
I just can't see why eBay will turn a blind eye. After all, if this is Counterfieting in it's extreme, isn't eBay gonna be partially responseable for harboring this person and allowing him to continue this(oh wait, they have "only a venue" status...) ??
BTW, this guy is a Powerseller. I can see why they want him alive and kicking.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
|
RB
|
posted on January 26, 2001 09:14:34 AM
eBay is treating this the same way they treat obvious copyright infringing items. In other words, they are doing nothing. If push comes to shove and they end up in court for abetting a criminal activity, they will hide behind their "We're just a venue" nonsense.
What I have done with the illegal video tapes is notify the MPAA and the various studio legal firms in addition to SafeHarbour. It seems that an email from them, saying exactly what my emails are saying (citing Chpater and Verse), carry a little more weight and some of these bad sellers are actually being spanked.
I can understand why eBay may be reluctant to end certain illegal auctions - they don't have the expertise to make a decision on many of these. What I can't understand is why they ask their members for help in keeping the site "safe" then ignore them, and why they don't implement a real investigation process when they get a complaint.
Right now, it seems that the decisions made depend on which SafeHarbour kid is on duty.
Either that, or it's a coin toss.
It's just another one of those eBay mysteries
|
Empires
|
posted on January 26, 2001 11:32:52 AM
FBI also handles these type of problems. Or any banking institution for that matter.
|
lotsafuzz
|
posted on January 26, 2001 12:46:56 PM
CS: I swear if the Kevin Spacey dollar bill auction that I've got my eye on gets canned I will hunt you down!!
|
gravid
|
posted on January 26, 2001 07:48:27 PM
I don't understand why you can not say clearly what the item is you find illegal.
Making money is so easy today with computers that any fool could do it. The problem as always for the serious criminal is passing large amounts of it.
The number of idiot children running off a few twenties to impress their equally bright friends has far too many agents tied up
running down cases that only impact the economy because of the added cost to law enforcement.
|
Crystalline_Sliver
|
posted on January 27, 2001 02:06:22 AM
Well, I get a nice e-mail from ebay saying they nuked the auctions, but didn't suspend the seller.
Now that the item isn't in the database, maybe I can describe it abit more (to the extent of the CG's).
The seller was offering "Reproductions" of US Currency (I can't say more beyond that) and according to their auctions, it would've violated Title 18, Section 474 of the United States Code (I had a Lawyer friend check it out; he says I was right).
He wasn't out to defraud by saying it was real and jack up the price; rather, he just plain offered it as a reproduction without even a hint of fraud.
I gave eBay that specific (Federal) Law, and they responded with a lax attitude!! I wouldn't be surprised if eBay get's slapped with a hefty fine for harboring this seller!!
RB: Would you think that someone on eBay would kinda question about something that may warrant the Secret Service investigating?
God, I am right now actually thinking of telling eBay that if they don't take appropiate action, I will send all the relevant info, including hard copies of their e-mails to me about this matter, to the Secret Service!!
gravid: As for your last comment, why I cannot say clearly is because the CG's forbid me to tell an auction or seller to a point of identifying them.
I'm sure the Moderator on duty can back me up on that point of fact and refer you to the area in question.
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
|
MichelleG
|
posted on January 27, 2001 02:25:11 AM
Hi crystalline_sliver
Happy to oblige with an explanation .
If you provide details of the item or auction listing and that proves sufficient information to identify the auction/s and Seller (by means of eBay's item & description search), then the CGs require that the Seller be invited to participate in the discussion (and the thread be locked for 24hrs etc). The full requirements can be found in the Community Guidelines.
It happens fairly frequently - sometimes when you provide only limited information, the AW supersleuths still manage to track down the auction or Seller . By discussing the auction in generalities only, no one is identified and no one has to be invited.
Hope this helps!
Michelle
*edited to clarify the last sentence
[ edited by MichelleG on Jan 27, 2001 02:27 AM ]
|
tsunamii
|
posted on January 27, 2001 02:29:50 AM
CS: Do you know if that law also pertains to
older denominations of currency? My husband collects a certain time period of U.S. currency and there is a lot of reproductions of it out there. Thanks
|
RB
|
posted on January 27, 2001 06:01:18 AM
"Would you think that someone on eBay would kinda question about something that may warrant the Secret Service investigating?"
Why do you think they would put more emphasis on a Secret Service issue than a copyright issue? They don't care either way - everytime they end an auction they lose money. As a result, they are very reluctant to do it.
|
marc923
|
posted on January 27, 2001 07:13:22 AM
I belong to a theater company and we would love to get a hold of some "reproduction" money. For props. Instead we have to use real cash, and it usually turns up missing by the end of the night.
|
RB
|
posted on January 27, 2001 08:09:01 AM
Use Monopoly "money". Theatre company fans have to use their imaginations anyway ... I think they'll get the point.
|
mrpotatoheadd
|
posted on January 27, 2001 09:00:35 AM
Reproduction of paper money:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/unframed/18/504.html
Coins and currency crimes:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/unframed/18/ch17.html
Counterfeiting and forgery crimes:
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/unframed/18/ch25.html
|
gravid
|
posted on January 27, 2001 09:19:10 AM
That's all I wanted to know - in generic terms what they were reproducing. I take it these were bills that are no longer circulated and are collectors items? Like the older BIG notes our curreent size replaced?
|
mrpotatoheadd
|
posted on January 27, 2001 01:44:48 PM
I take it these were bills that are no longer circulated and are collectors items? Like the older BIG notes our curreent size replaced?
Every note that was issued by the US government (the first notes were issued at about the time of the Civil War) may still be redeemed for face value, so although no longer current, the laws concerning counterfeiting still apply.
|
gravid
|
posted on January 27, 2001 03:52:47 PM
Oh I understand that OK. I just wondered what they were reproducing. Most people know not to do current bills. I just guessed they were probably doing a collector's item. Not that anyone would redeam it at face value. Indeed what would they redeem it for except another moderm bill? There is no program to trade for specie anymore is there?
|
mrpotatoheadd
|
posted on January 27, 2001 04:03:54 PM
I don't suppose anyone would try to redeem an older note, as they would only get the face value in new bills. I just noted that, since all currency issued by the US government *could* be redeemed regardless of it's age, counterfeiting laws still apply, even though the note may be 150 years old.
As far as redemption in gold or silver goes, that is no longer possible, even if the note (silver and gold certificates, for example) specifies such.
|
Crystalline_Sliver
|
posted on January 28, 2001 08:12:14 PM
The saga continues...
Even thought I didn't ask for it, eBay sent me their fax number so that I can forward it to the Secret Service!
I gues they want ME to do the grunt work. Buncha lousy...
RB, care for a e-mail later on? A Law Professor of mine is boggling my mind about a DMCA issue...I wonder if you can help?
:\\\"Crystalline Sliver cannot be the target of spells or abilities.
|
RB
|
posted on January 29, 2001 08:06:56 AM
CS - I am not a lawyer
I am "up" on copyright issues though as I have been involved in the video biz for the past 16 years, and I have made some good friends at the MPAA and a few of the larger studios.
If your legal question relates to what eBay is doing (or not doing), it's moot anyway. eBay have declared themselves a nation unto themselves and the laws of our world don't apply in their world.
May as well bend over and kick yourself in the butt when you feel like reporting a violation to the SafeHarbour ... saves wear and tear on your keyboard
PS - I just sent eBay a copy of an email that I just received from the owner of the copyrights for several videos currently listed on eBay. I included the name and title of the sender to allow eBay to do their own "investigation". The email clearly states that the sales of these videos are in violation of copyright law and that the seller, the buyer(s) and the venue can be held liable. Although I have notifed SafeHarbour on numerous occasions about these listings, they have done nothing. It will be interesting to see how they respond to this email from the copyright holder. If eBay responds following the laws in our world, the number of current video listings on their site will drop by around 300. If they do their typical dance and do nothing, I will have to push a little harder. Me bad
[ edited by RB on Jan 29, 2001 08:52 AM ]
|
