posted on February 9, 2001 03:43:23 PM
Here is a copy of my post from Canvid's what do you want in a co-op topic.
Hello Canvid,
I'm replying as a buyer.
1) Quality items. Truly collectable, truly vintage, truly rare books, truly antiques. If I want to buy a beanie baby or a video for my daughter there are already a plethora of marketplaces for that kind of stuff.
2) No bells and whistles with auction titles and search displays. Nothing gets featured, nothing gets highlighted. I want to be able to search and get a display that shows me the auction number, auction title, the seller's userid, the current bid or the starting bid, and the userid of the current high bidder. Nothing else.
3) No reserves. Start the bidding at the minimum you expect for the item and let the auction process and the interested bidders proceed without gimmicks or interference.
4) A true auction format. By this I mean that if a bid comes in very late in the auction then the ending time of the auction is extended by a few minutes. Allow early bidders to reconsider their "absolute" maximum in light of the sudden appearance of competition at the end of the auction.
5) Longer auction titles so that unrevealing abbreviations aren't necessary. A filtering program that excludes garbage in titles and descriptions (like LQQK).
6) Longer feedback comments. Feedback that is editable and deletable by the person leaving the feedback. Transaction only feedback but with a broader definition of feedback. Bid on an item and the seller cancels your bid? Bid on an item and then retract? Those are transactions in my book and comments should be allowed.
7a) Display feedback rating next to userid. codasaurus (+276, 10, -1 = +255) to alert folks to the underlying neutrals, negatives and repeats that go into the final rating.
-or-
7b) Feedback comments without a positive, neutral, negative rating. My userid would display as codasaurus (287) and if folks are really interested in the content of those 287 comments they can display the comments. And presumably give their attention to my most recent feedback. After all what does a positive or negative that I received 2 years ago have to do with me as a buyer or seller today? Especially when I have accumulated many feedback comments since the earlier comment?
8) The addition of the final price of each item to the feedback display. I would like to know if a seller has a history of inexpensive items or expensive items when I contemplate bidding. I think sellers would like the same historical info when evaluating a buyer.
9) Acceptance of a code of ethics by the sellers and buyers and establishment of a complaint and review committee to handle complaints and problem situations in a fair and expeditious manner. Committe membership would be on a rotating basis and the committee would be composed equally of sellers and buyers with a professional chairman to maintain order and break ties.
10) Chat board or boards with moderators and the ability to edit posts.
posted on February 9, 2001 04:27:49 PM
Hope I'm up to the Challenge!
Again, these are all just my personal opinions. I have no overall decision making powers in any way so please read my comments as such.
"1) Quality items. Truly collectable, truly vintage, truly rare books, truly antiques. If I want to buy a beanie baby or a video for my daughter there are already a plethora of marketplaces for that kind of stuff. "
Wow, a site like this would be really super, and really small. I hope we have all of this and more.
I think the key is to organize. I know I'd be mad as hell if my listing for an antique widget was next to a spam post or some Ginsu knives! Also, as a buyer if I happened to need some new ginsu knives it'd be easier to click to another section of the site to pick up these items, no?
"2) No bells and whistles with auction titles and search displays. Nothing gets featured, nothing gets highlighted. I want to be able to search and get a display that shows me the auction number, auction title, the seller's userid, the current bid or the starting bid, and the userid of the current high bidder. Nothing else."
Well clarity is very important. I agree with you about most bells and whistles. I find them an excuse for sites to generate fees. The fact is that the less time you struggle the more time you will be bidding!
"3) No reserves. Start the bidding at the minimum you expect for the item and let the auction process and the interested bidders proceed without gimmicks or interference."
I don't think I'll be able to help you much on that one. I personally don't use reserves. I usually start an item very high and wait it out. As a bidder I don't bid on reserve price auctions unless I am willing to bid what I think is above the reserve..
"4) A true auction format. By this I mean that if a bid comes in very late in the auction then the ending time of the auction is extended by a few minutes. Allow early bidders to reconsider their "absolute" maximum in light of the sudden appearance of competition at the end of the auction."
I don't know. I haven't suffered as a bidder by this much. What if I may ask annoys you so much about an auction ending on a set time? Maybe there's a way to improve the auction programs to make the experiance more exciting. I also think that the percentage of auctions affected by this scenario would be very small.
"5) Longer auction titles so that unrevealing abbreviations aren't necessary. A filtering program that excludes garbage in titles and descriptions (like LQQK)."
L@@K!! I agree with you about longer slug lines. This generally is the difference between making or breaking a seller. Ebay sucks with their 45 charcter slug lines.
As for the other crap, well how about a grammar filter, or dumb ass filter?? Different sellers have different styles. Perhaps you could send the seller an email explaining that you would've bid on his item if he'd written a better ad or had better terms. I have done this on occasion.
"6) Longer feedback comments. Feedback that is editable and deletable by the person leaving the feedback. Transaction only feedback but with a broader definition of feedback. Bid on an item and the seller cancels your bid? Bid on an item and then retract? Those are transactions in my book and comments should be allowed."
Feedback grrrrrr! My biggest beefs and I haven't seen a site yet do this right. I don't know if it's because of legal stuff or goofy assed non supportive sites.
I am in Canada. I can't tell you how many NF's I've had from folks expecting their products in 4 days and then blast away. Also, about a third to half of my NF is from Rookies. We need to clarify things and educate people.
Maybe if you found enough motivation to join the co-op you could volunteer for the feedback planning committee?? (this is for all your FB questions)
"9) Acceptance of a code of ethics by the sellers and buyers and establishment of a complaint and review committee to handle complaints and problem situations in a fair and expeditious manner. Committe membership would be on a rotating basis and the committee would be composed equally of sellers and buyers with a professional chairman to maintain order and break ties."
I absolutely agree with the fact that we need a process to expedite complaints and feedback issues. Customer leaves a NF. Changes mind or comes to a new conclusion or the other party makes them happy. There should be a process to remedy this.
What about not being able to leave a NF unless it goes through customer support?
What about NF for dead beats. Right now on most sites if a seller leaves NF for a deadbeat they end up with one back? I have no problem with the final value being listed. Again, join the comittee.
"10) Chat board or boards with moderators and the ability to edit posts. "
Geez, I don't know anyone who'd vote against that? Do you want to work on it??
Again, I don't expect everyone in the co-op to agree with each other and the co-op may not be for everyone.
What I'm trying to do is get us all talking.
I'm glad you took the time to post this code and hope that you come on board at some time.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:32:42 PM1) Quality items. Truly collectable, truly vintage, truly rare books, truly antiques. If I want to buy a beanie baby or a video for my daughter there are already a plethora of marketplaces for that kind of stuff.
This would require some form of censorship. I'll volunteer.
posted on February 9, 2001 07:41:42 PM1) Quality items. Truly collectable, truly vintage, truly rare books, truly antiques. If I want to buy a beanie baby or a video for my daughter there are already a plethora of marketplaces for that kind of stuff.
This would require some form of censorship. I'll volunteer.
Well, that's one way to be sure your stuff gets in the door.
Seriously, though- as long as items are in the proper category, why would it be necessary to exclude any?
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Feb 9, 2001 07:43 PM ]
posted on February 10, 2001 01:11:14 AM
Totally disagree. I think there is room for everything. The problem is everything is not kept in it's proper category.
Ok, I don't like beanie babies so I never search that category but I believe you need to sell everything, just so I don't find beanie babies in the middle of books (or any other category).
And the antique categories on ebay are truly laughable. Some stuff listed there was manufactured last week. I know there are too many categories now but there has got to be a way to separate true antiques from 1950 reproductions. It seems a lot of people don't know exactly what they have and this is understandable at times since we don't always have unlimited time to research every item.
It's a lot easier in some specific categories, for example, I can put up Westmoreland glass and a knowledgeable collector can tell by the mark when it was produced.
So I am not for eliminating anything, only putting it in it's rightful place.
posted on February 10, 2001 01:18:34 AM
Meant to say I don't believe a new site or co-op can afford to turn down listings when they are trying to build up a site.
And that's where some of us would be volunteers to police the listings and keep things in their rightful place. After all we can't all be lawyers or computer techs but we all have some level of expertise that can be made use of.
posted on February 10, 2001 04:27:31 AM
Totally agree with mr potatoehead and others that the problem is not that there are beanies and laser pointers and such but a buyer of antuques should not have to wade through that garbage to fine a tea table or a set of sterling table ware.
You don't seem to have a problem with the sellers of antique china wanting to list in consumer electronics - have you noticed that?
posted on February 10, 2001 07:34:39 AM
Everyone seems to be talking about one co-op and one big site (started from scratch) and spending a lot of money. Is that the best way?
What about several specialized co-ops (e.g. antiques, electronics, etc.) started on a shoestring on several sites, joined together by cross-links, a universal search engine and centralizied feedback recording? Each co-op would have control over the items displayed on their site. All would agree to the same code of ethics.
The sites wouldn't necessarily have to be started completely from scratch. In previous threads here discussing the co-op idea, there have been a number of suggestions on how certain existing sites could be used.
Think of the time and money that might be saved! The sites could always combined into one huge expensive site with employees at a later date if the co-op idea is proven to be working and if there seems to be some big advantages in centralization.
posted on February 10, 2001 07:42:45 AM
I Agree the Co-Op should not leave out or exclude any sellers, I can Understand the need for Some separation.
I personally like the Idea of an Auction site of neighborhood and or comunities categories each with its own leaders who runs controls and designs them to work for the category the Co-Op its self could be responceable for selling the Co-Op auction site over all but the sucess of the comunities would be based on its learders and sellers if the comunity didnt do well they might need to vote on new leaders with different or new Idea's and vision for the comunity or category.
The sucess of the over all Co-Op would be based on the sucess of all Comunity categories over all The leader of of each comunity would be the reprsentives of each area who would be voted in by its member to there there spokes person and vote on matters in there best interest.
This would also break down the Co-Op one member one vote with a voice in to smaller more workable groups This way When Dureing meetings you would be dealing with a board and any where from 30 to 50 group leaders far easyer then dealing with a thousands at one time.
I also feel these auction comunity leads should have some power of control to write warnings to sellers who may be posting some item close to the limit or over the invisioned limits for the category and the ability to remove the Items if sellers dont act when warned.
This would also break down the online cutomer service as well in to smaller more easy to manage groups each leader should be allow to pick his helpers from there category and ask for the groups aproval on his choices.
It would be nessary to have many chat or message boards one for each comunity to hold talks and meetings.
if there comes a time when a new category is thought to be needed it could be voted on by the group through its leader then it will up up to the people who want the category to start there discussion to get its comunity setup not only to fit inside the Co-Op terms rules and bylaws but so that its designed to best fitthere needs.
I know this is a pretty rough Out line of Ideas but I know there are many who could add to it to give it more focus.
Maybe if Antique and collectable seller have storng enough feeling on this they could start a area for this comuinty on one of the boards and they could start talking on how to get there auction comunity started and over time bring there proposal forword This would start to give this Idea a bit more shape.
But I feel this can be done all inside the same single auction site it dont have to be a bunch of small auction site all working fund raisers to get there own hardware and software.
Lets see if we can get it to take shape all useing the same funding remember one server can be set with many different adminatrative permissions that can be used in just fixed areas so that antiques and collectables comunity would have control of there comunity and theirs only.
its far lower cost to plug more resources in to one set of hardware then to get togeather funds for much more hardware.
posted on February 10, 2001 09:28:50 AM
My comments:
Hello Canvid,
My items #1 through #4 all concern an auction site for quality items where a true auction format brings the highest value to the seller and awards the highest bidder with the item.
In your reply to #4 you suggest a way to make auctions to make the experience more exciting. I'm suggesting that a true auction format is already as exciting as anyone could want.
Or would you rather have to deal with frustrated newcomers who don't understand about proxy bidding and sniping and are given the stock answer to bid their maximum? And the bid your absolute maximum advice is reasonable only for ubiquitous items not for scarce or truly rare items.
The biggest turn off I can imagine for a newcomer with money to spend is to be sniped on a truly rare item and then be told afterwards that they should have bid their "max". We are talking about an auction! People's maximums are determined by their competition not by some theoretical calculation at the beginning of an auction. People want a true auction format when they go to an auction. Not some distorted fixed time format that robs them of the chance to make an additional bid in light of other bidder's interest near the end of the set time limit.
In response to #5 and your suggestion of filters (or emailing seller's about how I won't bid because of their titles and descriptions). There isn't a filter made, nor will there ever be, that can handle the everchanging workarounds. And I am not going to waste my time trying to educate sellers as to why their style turns me off.
Feedback. I've no problem with a feedback system that prevents premature comments. The only way I see for that to happen is to not allow comments for a set time period following the end of auction. There will never be a way to ajudicate the "he said, she siad" feedback exchanges and your idea of feedback going through customer support is unworkable. Just make feedback completely modifiable and deletable and leave it at that.
Hello KathyG & MrPotatoHeadd,
Censorship? My idea is for a co-op that offers high quality merchandise and collectibles. I would prefer that normal market forces act to implicitly censor what is offered on the site. Perhaps a fairly high listing fee of which the majority is refunded to the seller if the item sells? This form of "censorship" would be completely impartial in contrast to a committee of members with their own interests possibly clouding the decision. And it would not require folks' time, which is altogether too precious to waste.
Hello Deco100,
If a co-op can't afford to turn down listings as it tries to build up its site then once it is established it will be confronted with the precise problem that eBay has. Tons of listings that don't support the basic operation of the co-op. The inevitable pressure from the more stable and professional sellers to "clean up" the co-op and get rid of the dead weight. The complaints by the collectors who see the site becoming ever more difficult to work with due to the flood of low-end stuff; the reduction in response time; the sporadic unavailability of the site as it strains to accommodate too much. The anguished response from the folks who have founded their business on the thinest of margins by jumping into the middle of the latest hot item craze as they perceive that after "they" built the co-op it is abandoning them.
Police listings? Again, a very time consuming task fraught with complaints from those who have their items switched. And what of those folks who continue to list in the wrong category?
Personally, I think most categories are a crock. I never browse categories. My time is too precious to wander about like that. I do targeted title and sometimes title and description searches. Browsing categories only seems to work when there are a limited number of listings in the category. In order to keep categories to a reasonable number of listings an ever expanding category architecture is required. This is feasible if done with care. Unfortunately, I suspect that many folks who do browse categories have bookmarked the URL and each time a subcategory is split off from an existing category you may have folks complaining.
Hello Stockticker & Dman3,
Specialized co-ops. I've advanced that idea in other topics on AW.
It seems to me that the one big advantage to co-ops is in their consolidation of individuals' buying power.
A group of category specific co-ops that agree to combine their buying power to be able to afford the hardware, software and overall system administrative expenses of a much larger concern while leaving the day to day administration of each co-op to its members.
