posted on February 21, 2001 06:18:04 AM
MY GOD! This seller is incredible! He now list the item with my description word to word for 5th and 6th time now! I keep emailing ebays, after the 4th report they FINALLY emailed me this form I have to fill up and print out and fax, which I have to do hopefully today as my printer is down.
But what kind of a seller ruthlessly steals ones description and gets more money than i ever did for this item? I only had one, sold it for a decent amount, yet he steals it and is getting way way more money (especially since he has more thna 6 of this item) THANKS TO MY WORDING! I WISH I had 6 of this item!
This is making me very wearly of ebays. Why do I have to go through all this filling up forms when it is to any man's eyes this seller stole my word word to word, and had listed this item 6 times now? This is just plain wrong!
I want to email this seller, asking does he enjoy stealing my wording, but can't he report me to ebays as harrassement? Why do i have to go through red tape to put a stop to this cold seller, who is so obviously brown nosing at me and ebays? I mean you would thiunk he would have STOPPED after 4 letters from ebays? Should I complain for 5th and 6th time whiule I fill up this form?
posted on February 21, 2001 06:25:49 AM
Let me get this straight... you sold your ONE Item and only ONE item and you're upset because another seller is using a description you claim you wrote, but have no more items to use it on and want get safeharbor involved?
LMAO
That really is a very poor use for safeharbor and I hope they keep ignoring you.
Move on and don't let this stuff bother you life's too short.
I guess it's just jealousy though eh?
posted on February 21, 2001 06:28:19 AM
I have had other sellers do this to me and I email every one of them!
I tell them imitation is the sincerest flattery and thank them for being so impressed with my ad that they choose to use it themselves.
I also tell them that my repeat bidders in that category have told me about their ad and how upset the BIDDERS are and how they have said they will NEVER bid on my competitors auctions. I then advise them to create their own ads so that bidders will be more likely to bid on THEIR item.
This is all done as sweetly (gag) as possible so that no one would ever view it as harassment. I get the satisfaction of letting the seller know that he didn't get away with anything. Usually I get an email back apologizing and kowtowing! Its funny but I bet they never do it again!!
posted on February 21, 2001 06:28:24 AM
If you no longer have anymore of this item, and this other seller is no longer your competition, why are you so upset? Why do you care? Your energy can be better spent on other things.
posted on February 21, 2001 06:33:52 AM
execuse me? I DO have another one of this item (I meant to say I ONLY listed one), BUT on a previous thread, another seller/poster told me to be CAREFUL about re-listing, for this other seller MIGHT have already filed a similar thing to ebays, so he could claim he was the first, so I am cautious of listing the same item AGAIN, as he can file a claim against me too, so I wount re-list them item UNTIL this matter is resolved.
What is so funny anyway? Trust me, when it happens to you, even when you dont have another one of the item, you will feel you were wronged! Geez, ive been getting good advise from everyone here until your post. Have some compassion.
[ edited by ultraman187 on Feb 21, 2001 06:35 AM ]
posted on February 21, 2001 06:45:13 AM
ultraman ... does this have anything to do with eBay's VeRO program (which is a farce). I recall reading some discussions about how anyone can register as a VeRO member then prevent anyone else from selling a specific item. At that time, I claimed the rights, as a VeRO member, to everything that starts with "H".
posted on February 21, 2001 06:45:32 AM
I know how you feel, I had this happen on eBay a couple of years ago, and because it was a relatively small section of eBay with a consistent group of buyers, they immediately recognized my wording, and told me.
I wrote the offending person, who, greatly apologized, and said he didn't know it was wrong -
What was funny was the ad was written for a very unique, 1800’s antique, handcrank sewing machine, and this person had duplicated it exactly for a sewing machine from the 1930's which didn't fit the machine at all. With most buyers in this category being VERY educated on sewing machines, it was more of a joke to them, than anything.
For those not familiar with antique sewing machines, just imagine you had put up an ad for a Model T and someone copied it exactly, and posted it advertising a 1949 Mercury! That is how ridiculous it was.
I have to presume in this instance the person absolutely knew nothing about sewing machines, presumed most were generally alike, and just copied an ad he liked!
But yes, it did initially irritate me. Actually, unless someone tells me I'd never know whether someone copied my ads or not as I don't search and check out other's auctions.
[ edited by jwpc on Feb 21, 2001 06:46 AM ]
posted on February 21, 2001 06:47:26 AM
This can be most upsetting....I sell my own paintings and have two other artists in the same category that blatantly copy my work and titles! In fact, I recently painted my cat...I made his body a little "fatter" than it should have been, but it added to the overall image..however, the next day, one of these "copiers" had TRACED this cat, the flaws and all!!!! This particular "artist" waits a day and then lists copies of what I listed the day before! I was alerted to this by my regular collectors! I have even put a copyrite symbol on my originals, but this doesn't stop them.
I am now exploring my options in this matter...and leaning toward just letting these sadly untalented people go their merry way...I'm not sure its worth the hassle..even with copying, they still have no talent! LOL
Sometimes we have to pick our battles...when we get caught up in some battles, it just prevents us from moving on
posted on February 21, 2001 09:39:40 AM
I gave you good advice- move on.
If you want compassion then you want the ebay community and community is SHARING, so you wouldn't be upset when a fellow community member uses your description. But it is more like you want to be identified as a Business seller and it's fierce competion for those dollars.
Me, I have only just started selling in December and do not have duplicate items to sell, so I don't care if someone uses my description and if do ever get duplicates to sell I can honestly say that I don;t care if another seller uses my descriptions. As a matter of fact I go in and look at successful closed auctions and "borrow" words and phrases from several different auctions to make my descriptions and titles.
Ain't Life Grand...
posted on February 21, 2001 09:43:17 AM
I have the same auctions running on ebay all the time. I know I would get upset if someone used the same auction wording that I wrote.
-Trey
***********************************
"If your mind can concieve it, and you believe it, then you probably can achieve it."
posted on February 21, 2001 11:18:24 AM
TWELVEPOLE yes I understand you now. I will take your advise, since you say you dont think one should care, and that you dont care, I will steal your description word to word, and even steal your image hosting, and sell the goods that "you dont have anymore" for below your starting fee, for you said it shouldnt eat me up, so it shouldnt eat you up, right? (;
posted on February 21, 2001 11:34:49 AM
Everytime I hear about this, I've wanted to ask this question. No disrespect intended, but how the heck do you all find the time to ferret out these auctions that use your auction descriptions and pictures? I must be happily living in my shoe box because I just can't see wasting my precious time (FT job, on-line auction and a farm) stressing out over something like this. There is just so much in life to choose from to stress about, that this is small potatoes to me.
God forbid that this is coming out of my mouth because my mother used to say it (and I would moan and groan). Just turn the other cheek and be the better person.
posted on February 21, 2001 11:40:04 AM
But, in Olga's case, this is much more that stealing someone's choice of words to describe an item. I mean, how many different ways can you describe a red car??
In Olga's case, the theft of her art is a felony and the law should be consulted. If I were you Olga, this is one battle that I would definitely fight ... and not because I am a cat lover
Stupid computer ... costs 3 grand and it can't even spell ...
posted on February 21, 2001 12:00:49 PM
Ultraman, the solution is very simple. Join eBay's VeRO program. Then you only need to send an email to eBay and they will end the offending auctions. Stop complaining and allowing yourself to be victimized.
As to the argument that you "owe" it to the community, that's a load of bull. I wonder how some of the posters above, who are so free with other people's copyrighted work, would feel about people coming in off the street to raid their refrigerators. I guess they'd be singing a different tune.
Copyright infringement is stealing. In the long run, you're doing the scab a favor by turning them in. It's far more rewarding to do your own work, rather than steal someone else's formula.
posted on February 21, 2001 12:07:38 PM
Umm let's see this seller has sold ONE and the other has sold what 5 or 6? Maybe they have already filed with Vero?
Trying to compare home invasion to some little auction on ebay is a large load of BS.
Of course that explains why there is no longer a community and it is a busniess world. and it's grab it and run.
I don't care if another seller uses my description; I don't depend on ebay to put food in my mouth.
Why not invite the other seller?
Ain't Life Grand...
[ edited by twelvepole on Feb 21, 2001 12:09 PM ]
posted on February 21, 2001 12:16:00 PM
RB:..You are correct. It IS a felony..which is why I am really trying to decide if I want to fight this. Once you get lawyers and courts involved...it could end up costing so much money that it wouldn't be worth it. Contacting ebay regarding this would be no help at all because there are other artists that this is happening to that have contacted ebay and they have turned a blind eye to it. IN fact, there is a thread on it on ebay on the safeharbor message boards....it began in November, I believe.
I must admit, at first I was devastated. After all, I spend hours sketching my subject matter, traveling and doing field work...then to have someone just print out what I have painted and trace it! I can't imagine someone having enough nerve to do that and then list it in the same category I sell in at the same time!!!! Very strange people!
The nice thing is that my customers are the ones that alerted me to this. I make it a practice to NEVER look at others auctions for fear it could influence me subconsciously(when I first learned of this, I did go and check...I was useless for days! I was angry, hurt...and spent a lot of energy just dwelling on this and...couldn't paint.)...I want all my work to be completely original. I too have no time to go auction checking! I also run a farm, raise working dogs and paint to support all this!(gee, this sounds jumbled..hope it makes sense! LOL)
It is a matter of how much time and money I want to spend going after a couple of people that will probably run out of people to copy and therefore drop off the radar screen! All that time and energy could be spent painting and doing the things I love!
posted on February 21, 2001 12:22:24 PM
twinsoft ... I'm not sure that an item description would fall into the copyright realm. If it did, we'ed all be in all kinds of trouble. Using my previous statement, how many different ways can be used to describe a red car, or a factory sealed copy of Pagemaker 5? If I describe it using the same words as you, who's violating who??? We would have to resurrect Webster and invent some more words to avoid this problem.
OTOH, copying Olga's art, a tv series or a movie, or a piece of software and selling it is an infringement.
I still think that the eBay VeRO program is nonsense for the very reason you suggested. I can register as a member and stake my claim to just about anything I want to, and forever and ever after that, anyone selling "my" product, the red car, for example, or everything that starts with "H", is gonna hear from me. I'm not sure if VeRO members have to pay for this priviledge, but if they do, it's just another eBay money grabbing scam.
Olga ... I can't play on eBay (they accused me of copyright infringement thanks to their idiot VeRO program!!!), but I would like a chance to look at and possibly purchase some of your art. Do you do paintings from photographs? I have two great cats (brother and sister) that I would love to have an original portrait of ...
posted on February 21, 2001 12:24:11 PM
Twelvepole, whether or not you personally respect copyright laws is not the issue. Copyright laws exist to protect content owners. Trivializing the issue doesn't make it go away. You are entitled to your opinion. The law and eBay's policy are also quite clear.
OC, as I posted above, the solution is very simple. Join VeRO. Then you will only need to send eBay an email and they will immediately yank the offending auction.
I've been selling at eBay for nearly four years. I develop a lot of my own products, software programs, etc. for eBay. I've had my descriptions stolen many times. I've also seen many folks reselling my products. I DO depend on eBay for my livelihood. That doesn't include supplementing some deadbeat who's too lazy to write their own item description.
posted on February 21, 2001 12:28:08 PM
RB, I'm sorry but I disagree. Obviously you don't want to discuss this seriously. I don't have time to discuss copyright law. eBay's policy is here:
posted on February 21, 2001 12:34:59 PM
twinsoft ... yes, the law (and eBay policy) are quite clear ... to everyone except the eBay drones who are supposed to enforce them. I have pointed them to many listings that are in DIRECT violation copyright law AND their own written policy. I have even cut and pasted their written policy and attached it to a cut of the listing that shows the violation is obvious. Yet, they do nothing.
The only time something does happen is when one of those dreaded idiot VeRO members ends an auction. That, at least, lets eBay off the hook - they can blame it on someone else.
eBay has no idea of copyright law, and in spite of what they tell you about their "investigations", they can't investigate as they have no idea of who to turn to for information. They leave that up to the guys who have become VeRO CyberCops ...
PS - twinsoft ... you always cop out when it starts getting hot in here don't ya
posted on February 21, 2001 12:53:40 PM
twinsoft ... here's the latest round of communication with the head eBay SafeHarbour drone (their email followed by my response - I have commented on theirs in square brackets):
Hello,
With regards to the items you reported, [several current listings for home made, EP copies of currently airing television sitcoms that are described as homemade copies right in the sellers listing!!!] while unfortunate we must hear from the content owners before taking action on some items. [how do they decide what these 'some' items are??]
In addition, counter to your claim, we have never received information from you that you had the rights to sell/distribute the items in which you had had removed.
We have previously asked you to fax in information regarding your proof to sell/distribute the items as far back to last September with the suspension of your xxxxxxx account, yet now six months later we have still yet to receive anything from you. [see his last statement telling me that even if I did FAX this info, I will remain forever banished from their venue. The items, btw, are studio released copies of unsold pilots that I have the right to own and distribute - I know a LOT of studio people!]
By your own prior admission previously, you stated, "It appears from what Columbia House states, that sales of ALL Columbia House tapes on eBay are in violation of their copyright."
[this was based on emails I received from Columbia House after eBay ended my auction for the Columbia House original collection of the series "V" citing a 'potential' copyright infringement. I forwarded that email to Emmett along with the name and address of the Columbia House exec who wrote it, and suggested that he should contact CH for a ruling. This was done over a month ago, and guess what. Out of the 200-odd listings I have reported since then for sales of Columbia House tapes, all citing their suspension of me and the CH email, NOT ONE of them has been ended by eBay!!! I still don't think that the resale of original tapes someone has purchased is a violation of anything, but what's good for the goose should be good for the gander]
If you claim to now have written permission to sell each of the items which were previously removed from your accounts, please fax that information to us at: 413.208.2360.
Should we receive something from you at this time we will review the information you supply us with; however your account will still remain suspended.
[duh???]
Here's my response:
Emmett ... If I were to provide this proof via FAX, would you issue me a public apology on behalf of eBay on AuctionWatch and reinstate my account?
I believe this is where I get the "don't email us anymore" response from Emmett!
Sorry to misdirect this thread, but this needs to be stated for people like twinsoft who can't seem to understand where the real problem is with eBay and their so-called policy.
posted on February 21, 2001 01:46:01 PM
twinsoft can give you the details, or you can do a search on eBay. Basically, the VeRO program allows anyone to claim anything as theirs by filling out some kind of form. If anybody else lists one of "their items", the VeRO member can have the auction ended.
Although the concept is good, particularily for people like you and twinsoft who develop their own product, it is being abused and should either be restructured or ended completely. It forces sellers to be very careful in their listings. For example, if you painted a picture of "Barbie" and used the word "Barbie" in your description, you will be banished by the VeRO bandits.
The MPAA is a VeRO member, yet eBay allows copyright infringing videos to be sold all over their site.
posted on February 21, 2001 03:31:27 PM
So long as you don't have an active auction using the description, who cares? This goes on constantly and so long as the guy is standing behind his product it shouldn't matter. I see people steal directly from web sites and then send you to the site to see pictures. Most often it's for 7 days and by the time anyonefinds out there's no recourse anyhow. Give up the ghost and go on with your auctions!
There may be some abuses. I won't argue about that. And I won't suggest that the people complaining the loudest are probably the ones that VeRO is designed to catch. (Oops, just did!)
I would recommend joining VeRO if you are concerned with protecting your legal rights to your own copyrighted work. If you don't care, then don't join. If you see a bank robbery and don't call the cops, that's your perogative too, I suppose.
RB, we've been all through your suspension from eBay many times. Many times. I dunno, maybe you relish the notoriety. eBay has made it clear that you can reinstate your account by sending proofs that you claim to possess. Now you want a public apology from eBay on AW? Dream on.
12pole, anyone can buy my item and resell it. They can't make copies of it and sell it on a "Mega-CD." I've had enough argumentation for the day, I don't need to dive into the realm of the ridiculous with you.
I see posts here from a couple of people who are concerned with protecting their rights as guaranteed by law (and supported by eBay policy). There's no need to pooh-pooh those people who came here asking for help. Unless you've painted your own picture, written your own book, or developed your own software program, I don't think you can understand how unpleasant it is to see your competitor selling your own products in the same category right next to yours, using your item description.
Some topics allow for debate. This is not one of those topics. And now, excuse me, I have some work to do. Toodles!
posted on February 21, 2001 10:20:52 PM
tooddles twinsoft.... another hit and run post... figures.
If you can't when the debate, post and run the best example... thanks again twinsoft.
Ain't Life Grand...
