posted on February 25, 2001 11:57:38 AM
Just posted this on Ebay discussions (Bidding).
Ebay's new policy of not allowing legitimate access to user's actual email address allows bidders to hide behind anonimity. I have an item I am watching with a bunch of bidders with zero feedback on it. To compound the suspicion the two IDs that are bidding against each other are numbers -not letters or words - just numbers. If just one bidder had numbers only then OK he's imaginative. But TWO, on the same item? Unfortunately I cannot look at the ISP to further ascertain whether or not these two (and maybe the seller) are in cahoots. So how are we to tell when someone is rigging an auction with either shills on one hand or covering bids that get retracted at the last minute on the other?
In Ebays zeal to "protect" us (which probably amounts to only Ebay being able to sell the addresses) they have opened sellers and users alike to fraud like they have never seen before.
Nice shot Ebay - how does your foot feel.
posted on February 25, 2001 12:02:34 PM
I am NOT Pro-shilling,
But I sure am ANTI NET RATTING!
Way to go eBay! Yeehaaa!!!
I hope all you wannabe net-narcs, web-rats, stool pigions, squealers, and nose-holes have a fine time trying to turn in others NOW,because you have no life!
posted on February 25, 2001 12:08:09 PM
Who's trying to rat? I just wanna know who's screwing around with something I'm interested in buying/Selling. If Iwas into ratting I'd be deluging Safe Harbor, not opening it up to loudmouths that have nothing better to do than flame from behind the nom-de-plume. Talk about no life.
From here on out - intelligent coversation only please.
Never wrestle with a pig - You just get all dirty and smelly and the pig LIKES it.
[ edited by sixthplace on Feb 25, 2001 12:09 PM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 12:38:47 PMSixthplace-I wouldn't know a shill if I saw one, but guess there are those very good at spotting them and checking them out BEFORE notifing Safe Harbor.
I am assuming people who report such things have always made an effort to establish whether there is sufficient evidence to warrant notifying Safe Harbor before doing so.
With the policy change I imagine Safe Harbor will see an increase in accusations of shilling/shielding, since nobody can check it out for themselves. Now they have to rely on Safe Harbor to do it each and every time they suspect an auction.
Perhaps you should notify Safe Harbor of your concerns over the new email policy. It's quite possible eBay has not even considered how much easier their new policy will make shilling/shielding.
posted on February 25, 2001 12:48:15 PM
Hey Pocono - I've sent you a couple of emails over the last couple of weeks but haven't heard from you. Anything new??? email me if you like.
Before I bid on something, I check out the items "going" price and when I spot a seller who is consistently getting higher prices it sets if alarm bells, and will cause me to investigate if the items are being shilled. I am not interested in being a vigilante,(who has the time, I am WAY to busy netcopping ebaY Yahoo Amazon etc) but I refused to be screwed by shillers. This new method DOES limit the amount of research I can do to protect myself, but as long as I can see and cross check ALL the bidder IDs and their feedback etc it is still possible to protect oneself - just mre difficult. -Rosalinda
TAGnotes - daily email synopsis about the Online Auction Industry http://www.topica.com/lists/tagnotes
posted on February 25, 2001 01:16:26 PM
Pocono-if you were interested in a fairly high ticket item, in your area, went to look at it. Come home to see about 15 bids by brand new registrants to ebay with odd? ID's
such as 1234 or 9876 back to back on the bidding history, wouldn't that make you suspicious?
Like he had said, who's to say if he bid on the item, and one of those bidders retracts.
Would that bother you if you didn't know if you were being 'setup' or whatever?
ebay is making it easy now with the new mail system, to see anything, when you are bidding.
I may not care if its some small item, and wouldn't thought twice about it. But what if its a 'big ticket' item?
posted on February 25, 2001 01:45:54 PM
sulyn1950 - I'm not real practiced at it myself because I consider most people to be on the up-and-up. But sometimes it looks fairly obvious if you can take a look at isp's feedbacks, etc. Ebay has taken the tools away from us to do that. As for pulling their info - then they get an email (or at least used to) and they're alerted and you open yourself up for god-knows-what.
Yes - Big Brother is going to be busy. I imagine Safe Harbor will have their hands full with the knee-jerk acusations and inquiries. And it will distract them from the larger problems of fraud that do indeed exist out there. I'm quite sure they have reviewed all the fallout over this. Someone is going to have a hard time convincing me that the ability to sell exclusive email lists to their big money partners is not a part of this plan.
mrgroup - Pretty much the same here.I've got enough to do without going out looking for more.
posted on February 25, 2001 01:52:32 PM
I like to see when folks are registered, domain name similarities, etc.
I don't care what kind of names you call people Pocono, it is protection for some unscrupulous sellers.
AND it hurts all sellers when buyers get ripped off.
I wish ebay would get real, if the percentages Codasaurus laid out in another thread are a taste of what's going on, consider all the people who ARE NOT reporting fraud?
I am a very cautious bidder. I email the heck out of the seller to find out what's what. I have let go of some sweet stuff based on suspicious activity.
And I let safeharbor know what I think isn't kosher.
Venue my patooty. They are as responsible for security as the owner of the local Mall.
As much as I buy on ebay, there is a lot that I pass up because I smell a rat.
Besides, I don't care if I am a net-rat, who cares? If a seller is acting like a fungus, who am I to worry about it? My favorite radio show is Clark Howard (http://www.clarkhoward.com).
I know that there are easy pickings out there in ebay land.
Blame the victim, right? The "stoopid" bidder. I have to say that sure there are some choice ones out there, but a bulk of the folks I deal with are nice, hardworking people who want a deal. If they get burned, they are suspicious of even my best intentions.
Anyhow, that's me.
posted on February 25, 2001 02:08:36 PM
NearTheSea and Cap,
Please read my very first line in my post which stated:
"I am NOT Pro-Shilling"
My comment was geared more towards the hordes that DO NOT do the proper thing, but use alias accounts to harrass, torment, bottomfeed, and play "mall-security" for the simple reason that they are morons with nothing better to do.
I agree that shilling is sickening, and should be reported by a BIDDER that happens on it in an auction that THEY are or have bid on, but not "self-proclaimed" do-gooders for the sole reason of being a RAT.
I am 100% in favor of ebay's new email policy, as it will help ME in MY business by allowing me to go about my auctions without the bottom-feeders and scammers interfering in my business.
Cap, you been here long enough to understand that my post's are usually not what they seem...lol
posted on February 25, 2001 02:36:30 PM
I'm with Pocono on this.
Let's face it, only the complete moron shillers will get caught via their email addy. My ISP is used all across North America, so I doubt that would tell you much.
Just the other day I a (0) high bidder from Scotland, with an AOL addy. I've also had AOL addy bidders from Japan.
If you think for one minute that any "intelligent" seller using shills will get caught via their email addy, you best think again.
The reality is the PRO shillers will never get caught, period. And as far as the dimwitted shillers, there's plenty of other ways to trip those morons up, without knowing their email addys.
I live in a small city in Canada, and could have 5-10 different ISP addys, if I so desired, and that's just locally.
posted on February 25, 2001 03:33:14 PM
Best defense against shills - snipe.
Seller does not want to incur FVF. If seller does not know anyone interest in lot, than less inclination to shill. If shilling on an unbid lot - really becomes a reserve.
posted on February 25, 2001 03:45:39 PM
Hiya Pocono,
It's getting to the point that every time I have a couple new users [just registered] run up the bidding on an item of mine, I get the sick feeling some net cop wannabe is going to report me for shilling.
I've NEVER shilled one of my auctions, and have burnt a few losers [BAD sellers] that have. I don't go looking for shillers, but the sad truth is SOME folks do.
If someone feels that something doesn't smell/look right, then I say - DON'T bid. But PLEASE don't assume that just because things *appear* to look *funny*, that the seller is using a second account to shill his/her own auctions.
There are MANY new users to eBay each & every week, and quite often these are the types of bidders that think *every* item is RARE & one of a kind & they bid like crazy fools.
God Bless the (0) feedback bidders!
spellin
[ edited by reddeer on Feb 25, 2001 03:46 PM ]
posted on February 25, 2001 05:43:26 PM
Reddeer and Pocono, I have had so many new ebay users with (0) feedback in 4 years, and its been great. I do not shill, and never have.
The whole point is this new email system is messed up.
So far, I've read here and ebay boards about how screwy it is.
I don't want a third party to go through to my bidders or sellers.
Yes, sometimes things DO look suspicious, but now? damn, you can make up user ID's by the dozen, and do what you want-is what it LOOKS like
I and the first poster were talking about big ticket items (I believe) and I've heard plenty of scams on those. It was on the news where I live, a couple racked up $50k in about 7 days auctioning off items they didn't have, but had good feedback, they had started and sold items, shipped them, and racked up some ok fb, 100 or so.
Sorry, this does happen. Thank
God sh*t like doesn't happen to my auctions.
Yes I've had deadbeats etc. But so far in buying I have not been ripped off.
