posted on March 6, 2001 09:00:04 AM
For those yet unaware, every credit card number ever entered into the Bibliofind system has been hacked loose and is now floating freely about cyberspace. After being shutdown throughout the past weekend, Bibliofind has re-emerged as a free public service of Amazon (at least for now). The fix for this problem was to simply delete every piece of information of their system that might be of value, including CC numbers and street addresses used for the monthly billing of sellers. Although Bibliofind's stats are not available for any authoritative source, there is little reason to doubt claims that they have at least 20 million book listings and 100,000+ sellers.
Why would anybody continue selling new or used books on eBay when Bibliofind offers greater exposure at no cost to the seller? Should the new Bibliofind be viewed as a model for the next generation of small-scale e-commerce? Is eBay vulnerable to on-line services of this sort that offer sales listings and WTB notices at no cost to buyer or seller?
posted on March 6, 2001 09:13:35 AM
Well, for one thing, I am a librarian, book-seller, and avid reader. Never really heard of Bibliofind, at least as described here. But plenty of folks have heard of ebay and buy my books there, as well as on Amazon Marketplace.
it's free to list books there? I thought most of the book sites had monthly fees or something. Is that where Amazon says they'll find an OP book for a customer?
posted on March 6, 2001 09:24:27 AM
I used to list lots of books on eBay. Now I just list books that are rare and unusual and that I think would appeal to collectors. If I cannot get a good price for a book on eBay I will put it on one of the listing services. eBay listing takes too much time and it isn't worth it to me for low-priced books.
The whole thing has turned into a juggling act, trying to figure out what to put where. Everyday seems to bring something new to think about. All I know is that I'm much more selective about what I purchase.
posted on March 6, 2001 10:19:26 AM
I just checked bibliofind.com and yeah, it's now free! Amazing. It doesn't say anything about it being a service of Amazon, although Amazon has long used bibliofind as its source for out-of-print books (I think Amazon has an ownership stake?). One thing I did notice is that they no longer say they have an agreement with a credit card processor so that member sellers can get merchant accounts. I had planned to list a whole bunch of stuff on bibliofind this summer, and that benefit was a prime attraction for me. But still, free sounds good to me! I wonder how long it will last as a free site...
posted on March 6, 2001 10:35:07 AMWhy would anybody continue selling new or used books on eBay when Bibliofind offers greater exposure at no cost to the seller?
Greater exposure? eBay is a much more recognizable name. How fast do books sell on Bibliofind? Personally, as a buyer, I go there as an absolute last resort. I've found many books there overpriced, and their condition underdescribed. As a buyer, I prefer seeing a picture of what I'm buying too, and Bibliofind doesn't offer that. The most recent Bibliofind purchase ticked me off too; ad said shipping was $4.00, but was charged $5.00 for $3.20 priority (this was last year). What a run-around to get that $1.00 refunded! Another time the seller emailed me and said they had already sold the book they had listed. Fine, no problem, just disappointed. A month later they email me, "Hey, we found that book and it's still available. Want it?" Forget it! If they were that disorganized, I'm afraid I would never get the book. Found it on eBay for 1/2 the price, anyhow!
posted on March 6, 2001 10:43:00 AM
A link to the Bibliofind main page: http://www.bibliofind.com/
Simply type in "Mozart" (or whatever) in the 'Any other word(s)' text box and see what's currently listed. You'll note the simple, spartan user interface, devoid of the visual clutter and complex user-host dialog that has overtaken eBay and others similar web site. You might also take note of the speed - virtual nothing but readable text is returned after each submit. I expect that banner ads will soon appear, but so what?
One final note: Go look at Bibliofind's TOS, rules, polcies, etc. Except for the most basic terms in their user agreement, there is nothing to be found. No rules on native American indian art, Nazi mementos, police badges, adult magazines, etc. Announcements to sellers? Prior to the recent wipeout, the most recent announcement of any substance was at least 6-9 months old! This is the way it should be.
Compare this to the innumerable rules and policies of eBay, the list of which grows longer alomst daily. I suspect eBay will slowly collapse due, in part, to financial, political and legal pressures which have made eBay an active participant in each transaction.
posted on March 6, 2001 10:53:25 AM
Athena made some good points, and I'd add one more. There is a small group of book sellers on eBay who have (if I may use a somewhat provocative expression) discovered a secret of selling that realizes profits well beyond what could be expected in a typical retail setting. The reason this is possible is, in one word: COLLECTORS, especially those who collect items attendant to their fields of interest. This allows you to take an elephant, for example, train in on its tusk with your Mavica, snap a photograph, then dangle the resulting image in front of a group of ivory collectors, who nearly always have deep pockets. You can't do this kind of thing on Bibliofind because you can't, for one thing, include a picture, and for another, you can't put the dumb listing in anything but a general arena of elephants, most of whom are white, if you get my meaning, and ultimately indistinguishable from one another. Also, in general, I'd say that pictures are easily the most effective tool for selling online. When you give them up, you risk impoverishing your entire business.
posted on March 6, 2001 11:03:02 AMpictures are easily the most effective tool for selling online
Exactly! As an avid book hoarder, I adore spending hours upon hours in a book store. Since I have perused to death my local bookstores, eBay has become my online outlet for that same experience. I can literally spend hours bouncing from subcategory to subcategory, browsing. And I want PICTURES! I wonder how many other "impulse" book buyers there are out there? I'll buy just about anything if it sounds interesting...and I wasn't even looking for it! You can't easily browse Bibliofind. You pretty much need to know what you are looking for there.
Just offering an argument from a buyer's point of view (and I heed as a seller, myself).
posted on March 6, 2001 11:54:09 AM
I look at Bibliofind as simply one other place to sell books. I'll continue to sell on eBay, Amazon Marketplace, and sometimes half. But Bibliofind is good for those neat antiquarian books to be "parked" while waiting for just the right buyer. I've had plenty of wonderful books that just didn't sell on eBay, for one reason or another, and I'll be glad for another venue to sell them. And parking for free (at least for now) is allright with me! Over on the Amazon discussion board, someone mentioned that Amazon is probably going to eventually kill Bibliofind. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. I wonder if we'll see them integrate a giant used/antiquarian/OOP booksite into their main site? They *have* to see the profit potential there! Between their 99 cents + 15% + their cut of the shipping, they are usually making about 30-35% off my items! I wonder if they'll eventually turn Bibliofind into a percentage-of-sales-commission site, like Marketplace?
I have a question for you. I scan pics of all books (except if I list a large lot). I also give the print date, the publisher, the print number (if I can find it - 1st print, 2nd print) and the edition. I sell mostly paperbacks, so I also include the blurb from the back cover (what I read if I'm shopping in a b&M store). Is there anything else about a book that I should be including to grab those impulse buyers?
posted on March 6, 2001 08:10:21 PM
I agree with athena too, and haven't sold (or bought) anything on half.com for the same reasons. However, I always check bibliofind when the bidding on a book I want goes out of control at Ebay. I have bought a few things on bibliofind, but like athena said, each time I've gone in there knowing exactly what I want. It's not an easy site to browse.
Should I be worried about my CC#? This is the first I've heard of this, although I did notice that bibliofind was down. Well, I guess I'm not that worried, my CC is maxed right now anyway.
posted on March 6, 2001 11:59:55 PM
Sorry so late getting back to your question, jane! I actually torn myself away from the boards for the evening
It sounds like you are doing great stuff already. Paperbacks are a tough sell, though (at least that has been my experience). Probably because the "common" ones can be readily picked up at thrift stores and library sales for under 50 cents, and most people can't see spending the extra money for postage. However, I love looking at paperbacks grouped in larger lots (6+) by theme (personally, science fiction ones catch my eye, either by author or a theme). And children's and young adults' books do better that way too, it seems. So, I think it would be worth your while to scan them when in a larger lot...my scanner easily scans (lengthwise) three paperback books. You didn't mention if you noted condition. That would be important too...if the spine is simply creased or cracked, if pages are loose or missing, if the pages are yellowing or brittle. Still, they are tough to even get a casual buyer interested. I have a group of paperbacks that deal with the 1960s (in one way or another)...Kennedys, Lyndon Johnson, etc....hmm, I might give them a try now!
Oh, I just thought of something else. You may want to describe the cover art too. Why I mention this is right now I am tracking down any science fiction works that discuss the skyscraper as a utopian form of housing, and am particularly interested in some of those pulp sci-fi collections like "Amazing Stories" et al. If the seller would "help" me out by mentioning the "skyscraper" on the cover, it would come up in my keyword search! You never know what people are out there looking for. For example, I suppose there is a segment of the population interested in romance novels that used Fabio as the model for the cover art, and it would probably be a good idea to mention that in your description to get the attention of that buyer.
posted on March 7, 2001 12:26:33 AM
I found this discussion quite interesting. I have loved books since the day I first read about Dick and Jane! And old books+collectible ones I'm interested in certainly fascinate me as I get older(sigh). I have been selling items at Half for almost a year, mostly books. But I've been disappointed by some of my collectibles, 1st editions, OOP etc not selling, or other folks with same book giving them away for 1penny or $0.75. The one time I bought a book there from a top rated seller, I was disappointed in quality. Then ebay took over there and its improving slowly. You cant scan your books there; they have database standard photos. Often coverart, page #s, even SC/HB etc differ. And 99%discretion is given to sellers to describe their books condition; many dont know the names of a books parts, like "plates". But I didnt know of this Bibliofind site or link to Amazon and will check it out. Or maybe I will try Ebay for my nicer items. One thing I've noticed is that my scifi books always go fast. So do childrens books. And I had no idea there were so many other book lovers out in cyberland besides me. I appreciate the excellent comments in this thread and am not thrilled to list my CC anywhere else right now. Thanks all!
Yep - I do include condition (don't know how I overlooked saying that - lol).
I've actually done fairly well with paperbacks - but I try to stick to the more uncommon ones, or ones that I know are hard to find. The mass markets go up on Amazon now.
I didn't know if I was wasting my time writing out the info from the back cover - I kind of wanted people to get the feel of browsing, so I hope it helps.
I think I have a hard sell going now - I picked up 400+ early romances for $1. I've made a bit on some of the ones that I knew would sell (although I don't know much about romances, I can recognize the 'hot' authors). Now I still have over 300 to go. <sigh>
Athena Thanks so much for your reply. I appreciate it - as far as your search, I have an early copy of the Tower of Zanid that you can have if you'd like! Email me if you want it (I always like to return favors!)
posted on March 7, 2001 06:58:44 AM
athena regards - "the skyscraper as a utopian form of housing... "
- that's a curious one, a bit narrow for a central topic but frequent as a more or less incidental element, look for tower - I can recall a number of books which used "tower" in the title refering to a skyscraper, though never "skyscraper" (I think that's because skyscraper hasn't been a particularly modern or futuristic word for over 50 years).
Most titles won't help find the skyscrapers.
I believe that Niven/Pournelle wrote a novel which fits not sure the title (maybe Oath of Fealty).
Also look for reference to "arcologies".
posted on March 7, 2001 07:14:25 AMAmazon, despite denials, was warned about hack -- "A humiliating hack which resulted in four months of continuous credit-card data vulnerability for Amazon subsidiary Bibliofind, originally broken by the Wall Street Journal Tuesday, appears to involve fraud on more than one level."
I would want to know what Bibliofind has changed to safeguard user's information. They have not posted about this anywhere. In fact, many sellers have never received any emails to even let them know there was a problem. Yes, they are suddenly FREE now (previously $39 a month), but for how long? I don't think I would trust a company that is owned by Amazon to be straightforward. After the mess of Amazon's Marketplace, Bibliofind's future FREENESS is dubious.
RE BOOKS: With the amount of listings increasing exponentially on eBay, it is more important than ever to prepare a description that is clear and concise. By this I mean that by the time a prospective bidder has read through your listing, everything that is relevant about the book should have been profiled. They should feel confident that you know what you are talking about and that they will not have any "surprises" when they receive the book (i.e., the seller said it was "flawless", but they didn't tell me it was an ex-library" or "they said it was a first edition, but it's a book club" ).
The key word is professional. One does not need to be a "bookdealer" (as that term is commonly used) to prepare an auction that contains all the requisite information that a book collector (or reader) is looking for. As a matter of course, your auctions should contain standard bibliographic information such as author, illustrator, publisher, date, edition, format, and a detailed condition statement.
When I am browsing through listings I back right out of auctions that have backgrounds that take over the page (obscuring the text), music or flashing text. I do not read text that is typed in all UPPERCASE. I find it hard to follow text that is all lowercase. Sentences should be designated by initial caps. Paragraphs should not be divided by dots (...), asterisks (***) or squiggles (@@@). And it should be a given that you have proofed your auction for spelling, grammar and punctuation before you launch it on the world (unless you want to join the ranks of illiterate sellers!).
One does not need fancy HTML for this; but basic codes such as center, bold, underline, italics, line breaks and paragraph breaks are essential for presentation purposes. See Annabelle's HTML Help....
[edited to take out a smiley face that appeared inadvertently!]
[ edited by engelskdansk on Mar 7, 2001 07:15 AM ]
posted on March 7, 2001 08:31:13 AM
Seller's credit card information was not at risk---it was the buyer's.
They have removed the ability for the buyer to input their CC information on the order form. This is now up to the buyer and seller to personally exchange via email or phone if the purchase is being made that way.
posted on March 7, 2001 09:01:43 AM
Thanks all for the insight - I probably should begin another thread, but it looks like this has some good readers/sellers looking at it, so I'm going to open myself up.
Here's the number of one of my closed auctions:
565186155
Could you kind folks take a peek and critique for me?
posted on March 7, 2001 09:50:28 AM
jmjones:
The width of your table should be less than 100% -- when a browser brings straight text to the screen, it will automatically fit within the margins of your screen (whether you have a 14" monitor or a 19" one). However, when you place text within a table that is sized at 100%, the text will scroll OFF the screen along the right edges. This means that people will have to scroll left AND right, which is very annoying and makes it hard to follow the text. A width of 85% would allow the table to be viewable within the left and right margins without having the right edges scroll off.
Alternatively, add the (/blockquote) (substitute pointy brackets) just BEFORE the beginning table code (eBay automatically adds a blockquote which effectively moves a table too far to the right).
On the auction you referenced, I wasn't clear if the publisher was "White Wolf" or if that was the name of the "series". Saying "it appears to be the first printing" does not sound very definitive - either it is or isn't.
I also found the "bibliographic" information somewhat lacking in your current auctions. As far as collectible paperbacks go, they are not considered in good condition when there are creases, or lamination that is lifting. Collectors want pristine paperbacks if they are going to shell out $$$.
Your terms are friendly and I like that you include a synopsis of the book....
posted on March 7, 2001 10:18:19 AM
As a buyer, I prefer Bibliofind over an auction site. If there is a book listed and the price is OK, I can just order it from the seller. One drawback is that many sellers forget to clean up their listings, so I always email to find out if it is still available, and have it held for me (I don't use the on-line order form).
I don't care about pictures, since I usually am already familiar with the book. Funny thing is that when I come across a book on ebay that I am interested in, I go and check Bibliofind. Usually find one there I can buy without the auction rigamarole (and usually for less money).
[ edited by Damariscotta on Mar 7, 2001 10:19 AM ]
Thanks! The template is one of AW's - I didn't notice that it was 100%. In the ones that I've started writing my own HTML, I'll remember that. (I didn't know why tables were mostly set at 85% - learn something new daily!)
I agree, most of the books that are up currently are not collectible - they are either special interest or from the large lot of romances that I bought cheap - these I'm just trying to clear out. I think the only collectible that I'm showing now is the JDM.
I do appreciate the input - when I finally get a style that I like down for my own HTML, I hope you'll lokk at it for me again!
posted on March 7, 2001 10:47:27 AM
Jane, thanks for the kind offer. My email is [email protected].
The sample auction you gave us does load strangely (extending far to the right), and my computer HATES that AuctionWatch template! Froze-up four times and had to keep rebooting…very frustrating and HUGE turn-off when browsing (not to you personally, just auctions in general). So, even though it looks very professional, you might consider going with something simpler (not all AuctionWatch templates do that to my computer). I used to use the antiqued-look "torn" page template myself…before the fee fiasco.
Nice placement on the completed Vampire book auction, but I noticed most (all?) of your current auctions are not in the "Books > Paperbacks" category. Just curious, doesn't that category sell well? You may want to consider using "PB" in your titles if the books are in categories that could also include hardbacks. Also, in larger groups of romance novels, have you tried grouping by location novel set at ("exotic lands", "paradise retreats", "islands" "Paris", etc.)? That might be an interesting gimmick. Or by profession? ("nurses/doctors", "secretaries" "horse breeders", etc.) Simply running through the list of titles may not generate attention, but a common theme might. In the listing title, you may also want to highlight these themes, such as "8 Harlequin PBs, Exotic Countries" or "Regency Period." Just my two cents
posted on March 7, 2001 12:36:52 PM
If Bibliofind is free, I might start using it. I've noticed that many books on eBay are commanding less than 50% of what they did a year ago. Just absurd considering that all the costs have gone up.
posted on March 7, 2001 12:57:36 PM
Many books on eBay ARE selling for less than they did a year ago -- and I'm glad that they are! Frankly, I believe an educated buyer is the best defense a seller has for books that are truly collectible.
For example, many of the high-selling children's books were bought purely on the basis of nostalgia and people paid $$$ for ratty ex-librarys. Of course, then the market was flooded with these "rare" books, and the prices dropped accordingly. And some of these are now being reprinted: i.e., Mr. Pine's Purple House, Mr. Bear Squash You All Flat, Eloise, etc.
I think over time buyers have become more educated about costs and are doing more comparison shopping. The common books are more common than ever and are available by the truckload. What surprises me is that anyone continues to buy them, but some are bought because sellers sell them under false pretences (i.e., claiming they are first editions when they are not, etc.). Harry Potter is a fine example of that. Most of the "firsts" are NOT and buyers have been duped into spending hundreds on books that were knowingly misdescribed.
The bottom line: good books still sell well. Collectors are still willing to spend $$$ on a book that is truly collectible. The bin-swill has tanked, and rightly so.
And now that Bibliofind is free (for how long one might ask) it won't be long before it is swamped with even more low-end, worthless books than it already has online. I just wish there was some way of sorting out the ex-libraries, book-clubs, first editions that are NOT first printings (one should never be able to use the words "first edition" on anything other than a first printing) and anything LESS than Very Good in grade.
[edited to finish a clause....]
[ edited by engelskdansk on Mar 7, 2001 12:59 PM ]
posted on March 7, 2001 02:09:24 PM
engelsdansk, have you tried going to www.addall.com and using their Refine Your Search feature? I use it all the time to weed out stuff I *don't* want to see.
posted on March 7, 2001 02:15:32 PM
Thats nice... but....
Considering todays new that Bibliofind was being hacked since October of last year and thousands of accounts and credit cards were stolen I'd certainly question if I'd ever use it.
See todays Wired News where Bibliofind acknowledged the breach, since last October and are being rather stiff lipped about it.
Place ought be a buyer ghost town now in no time flat.
posted on March 7, 2001 02:28:12 PM
birdwatcher: I tried that and it really doesn't work well. There are just too many variations -- ex-library, ex-lib, library (or even "book seems to have a cardholder, don't know what that means!).
Abebooks has a better search engine, allowing one to tick off first edition or signed or dustjacket, but even that is flawed. Obviously, sellers are entering things under false pretenses (if those choices show up for them to fill in) because paperback books were showing up when I specified DJ.
posted on March 7, 2001 03:01:23 PM
There seems a bit of "how dare anyone offer things I'm not interested in" in the complaint.. but agree that the searches have serious problems such as :
The first edition search show a lot of "first thus" and "not first" spam. Similiarly searching for a "signed" book gives lots of listings with variations on "not signed" and "signed by previous owner".
posted on March 7, 2001 03:17:57 PM
Since Bibliofind will no longer keep credit card information on file, I don't see why it should become a ghost town. And with its new free status, I'd imagine a lot more sellers will be interested. I just hope it doesn't become the junk pile that half.com largely is. Well, there's always Alibris - NOT!!
I had planned to list a whole bunch of stuff on bibliofind this summer, and that benefit was a prime attraction for me. But still, free sounds good to me! I wonder how long it will last as a free site...
Over on the Amazon discussion board, someone mentioned that Amazon is probably going to eventually kill Bibliofind. I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. I wonder if we'll see them integrate a giant used/antiquarian/OOP booksite into their main site? They *have* to see the profit potential there! Between their 99 cents + 15% + their cut of the shipping, they are usually making about 30-35% off my items! I wonder if they'll eventually turn Bibliofind into a percentage-of-sales-commission site, like Marketplace?