posted on March 18, 2001 02:57:57 PM
i was reading some auction boards and it seems Ebay is playign around with there HTML on there web site to screw up companies ...that try to use ebays site ...then help sellers with there closing auctions
this is a quote from vran web site
March 16 7:42am
Eastern USA Time -0500
Hardware upgrade lasted until around 7:30am this morning.
eBay has reversed their seller search page and as a result new coding done the day before and are no longer working. It's likely that eBay is doing all of that deliberately to make services such as ours more difficult to maintain and eventually unprofitable. Because they have competing services such as Auction Assistant it is in their interest to make us go away. Users cannot see the changes at all. HTML language is such that one can put as many line breaks as one wants and browsers will display the identical web page. Our services rely on the raw HTML and if HTML source is changed on eBay then we have to change it accordingly. There is absolutely no reason for eBay to be changing their HTML code unless they want to change the appearance and the appearance has not changed.
We have now put back the old code for power mailer and it seems to work. We will be putting back the old code back in for other pages later on in the day.
We are working on a more robust structure and hope to implement it soon.
posted on March 18, 2001 11:52:08 PM
Aren't they makeing enough money from fees to charges sellers for something that should be free. They're the leechs that want to suck your blood dry.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:37:54 AM
"Aren't they makeing enough money from fees to charges sellers for something that should be free. They're the leechs that want to suck your blood dry."
So, what makes you say the services ebay provides should be free?
Do you give your merchandise away for free?
The services ebay provides is their "merchandise"...if they gave it away free there would be no income...no income means ebay couldn't pay for the servers and employees needed to run the site...they can't pay and we don't have a site to hawk our wares on.
The leeches are services like Vrane who think they should be able to run a business using anothers resources (such as ebay's) for free.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:55:18 AM
eBay wants a minimum of $250,000 for the license to access their coding. Additional fees are also added to this amount. As such, they are completely eliminating the competition. All the small "mom & pop" operations will be forced out of the game, leaving only eBay management software as an option.
This is very bad for the consumer (eBay Sellers), as they will be forced to pay ever increasing fees for the service. It's a true monopoly folks, wake up and smell the blood.
posted on March 19, 2001 12:05:52 PM
I guess it all depends on your point of view. Windows is Microsoft's software right? They have lost in court for practices that give them a monopolistic advantage. So, is the fact it is eBay's "site" enough to allow them the opportunity to prevent other third party solutions a chance to provide supplemental solutions, and often better ones, to eBay's sellers? Probably not.
I write software for eBay and was recently bitten by the same change. I found a way around the problem and an update was online within the day. So, do I care if eBay changes their forms? No, go ahead eBay I will always find a way around you!
It can be said, "Well eBay now has a developers program that gives third party developers access to an API. Isn't that enough?” Sure it is, if end users want to fork out monthly fees. I don't know of one software company that could survive the eBay pricing schedule with out them. Besides, as a developer, I don't want anything the eBay monkeys have designed in my software.
The fact is this. eBay is trying to FORCE its users to use its software. For those users that it can't force, it wants a monthly fee from the supplier of the software. Yet, software on the end user's own computer is mearly a client, a way to view and post data. What they are asking is tantamount to them insisting Microsoft pay a royalty because Internet Explorer can view their pages.
This is just another example of eBay's scramble to justify an overinflated stock price and cover it's past bad investments. The end user MUST pay the costs of mistakes in the past to keep their stockholders happy.
I for one will never pay eBay a dime for my own software development and will NEVER pass on the cost of their mistakes to my users.
I have begun software for the other more promising sites. I think they will be the future soon, as eBay is making it very clear they only want customers with deep pockets.
posted on March 19, 2001 02:12:46 PM
I hope we are not loosing the fundamental concept of business here. If eBay expects to be profitable as a business, they (like any other) will charge for their services as much as the traffic will bear.
We as sellers using their services expect to see a return on our efforts when we list an item. We are not going to give it away...and neither should eBay. Like watter, business seeks it's own level and should eBay's fees be out of line with what people are willing to pay then they will be the ones to suffer by loosing profits. Just look at Amazon and Yahoo! aucton sites. Should eBay management make a couple of real bonehead moves that results in their customers leaving in droves, they will continue to be the big guys on the block and complaining about them won't change anything.
Life is basicly a series of choices and we must deal with things as they are, not as we would like them to be. Therefore, the choice is mine and yours...to chose to utilize their position to our advantage by making a profit through them, or choose a diferent method such as a garage sale, flea market or other online auction site. To deny eBay or Auction Watch the right to make as much money as they can for their services is not free enterprise and you and I would be a lot worse off under any other system.
It's time to make other choices if anyone is unhappy with what they have been using. I for one am starting to learn FTP and HTML because of AW's new fee structure. That is my choice given the situation. Should eBay's policies and/or fees become intolerable to me then I will have to make other choices.
I say, don't worry about how much eBay makes...worry about how much you make. And if you can make more somewhere else then that is where you should be. (Forgive the spelling. I'm not that good at it.)
posted on March 19, 2001 02:35:29 PM
jrodgers - I think we agree.
eBay has priced their third party API out of my, and my customers, range. Not that I'd let them put their code in my software if it was free, but you get my point. They want a monthly fee from me and I would have to pass that on. I'm not willing to pay it.
The point is, they have done three things you should be concerned about.
#1. They have made modifications directly aimed at third party software. It in fact makes their site less efficient because the resulting pages are larger.
#2. They have broken their old version of Auction Assistant. Meaning you HAVE to upgrade if you own it. Who cares if they are giving a free grace period? You are now locked into the monthly plan. As a seller, I take months off at a time. I would be really ticked if I was paying $15 a month for service I wasn't using.
#3. They are limitting your options as a seller. You are familiar with eBay's support I am sure. How are you going to like it when they are your only option for software support? "Your email has been recieved. Please do not reply to this email as it is an automatic response. You will be contacted between 24 and 72 hours from someone actually reading it."
Us third party developers know more about eBay than they ever will. eBay does not have the knowledge of it's users or the dirt on their knees from being in the trenches actually selling. They will NEVER understand the needs of their customers.
Heck, I have felt the pain of my customers. Spent hours helping customers fix a trashed database, track a bug in Internet Explorer, find and remove viruses. If you prefer eBay's auto-replies and useless technical support then I say, "by all means stay with them and their costs."
posted on March 19, 2001 02:35:40 PM
I don't believe us sellers have a problem with paying fees, it's options we are looking for.
It's not just eBay's game. There are other players in the equation. Buyers, sellers, advertisers, online payment providers, fulfillment agencies, shippers, packaging suppliers... The list goes on and on and in each catagory, the buyer or seller has options on who to use to perform these services. It's called a free market.
eBay's platform is theirs. They can do whatever they wish with it. I just do not like the idea of them holding my data hostage. It's my damn data! They are welcome to it since I am using their site. However, if If I want to make it available to a third party that is preforming a service for me and making my business more efficient, I believe I should have this option.
posted on March 19, 2001 03:04:13 PM
Sort of reminds me of MS-DOS vs. DR-DOS from years back. The former was essentially the base platform, and the latter could run on top as a "better DOS" or something to that effect; but the accusation was that MS intentionally added some code to the next iteration of MS-DOS that gave a worrisome-looking message if DR-DOS were loaded. At least that was the accusation; I'm not sure whatever became of the lawsuit.
I never used DR-DOS, but I did use Norton Utilities for many years, and that came with NDOS, which in some ways was distinctly superior to MS-DOS, encapsulating the same functionality but adding more options and more commands, and I kept using it for years.
IMO, the operating system is the base, and that whoever sells an operating system should expect, and even welcome, programs that users can install that further enhance the system. Yet of course the subsequent argument is what happens when the platform builder decides some such features would be good to add to the operating system itself. This would eliminate the usefulness of an add-on product, but is this eliminating competition or is the "competition" someone who knew operating systems would change over time and should have more than just one egg in their basket (i.e. always be developing new enhancements for new versions of operating systems).
Can a company regulate the services that have "better than" enhancements? Apparently not, because these add-on, enhancing services always seem to appear for major platforms (Windows or eBay seem to fit that question equally, IMO).
In this context, I think where DR-DOS became a lawsuit was that Microsoft allegedly went out of their way to add an otherwise unneeded message in a subsequent version of MS-DOS, which would be distinct from making unrelated enhancements that DR-DOS simply cannot work with.
It makes me wonder, is eBay's "venue" argument have any implications on whether or not they could be considered a type of "platform" as well?
There is, however, a difference between the comparisons. An operating system runs various commands, regardless of where they come from. eBay runs a set of servers, and "enhancement" services will be running additional commands, thus requiring more server power, I'd guess. Someone mentioned eBay "API" -- what does that mean? Is eBay trying to encourage use of its servers as a platform, just like an operating system has an API, or are they trying to be an enclosed service? This may have some effect on the "venue" argument as well. I don't know; I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know the true technical meanings of some of these terms.
Of course, eBay should ask itself whether trying to lock out "enhancement" services, if, IF that's what they're trying to do, would be a good thing or a bad thing, since the extra services may be helpful enough to sellers that they (the sellers) are able to post more auctions and thus theoretically get eBay more FVFs.
----
What's being done in the name of direct marketing nowadays is crazy.
The above are all just my opinions, except where I cite facts as such.
Oh, I am not dc9a320 anywhere except AW. Any others are not me.
Is eBay is changing from a world bazaar into a bizarre world?
posted on March 19, 2001 03:20:53 PM
Ahhh DR-DOS... That was Digital Reseach (DEC). They did have MS-DOS beat, but we all know Microsoft never really wrote DOS.
They are pretty similar, but MS does not charge extra for their additions. It basically becomes a part of the OS that eliminates a piece of software. For example, my Windows ME machines don't need WinZip anymore because "Compressed Folders" are part of ME.
What eBay is trying, as far as I can tell, is saying "These are our pages and no one can get paid for them but us". Well that's just plain wrong. I wish MS would sue them saying "60% of your viewers are using our browser. We want a cut!". That might wake them up.
DR-DOS was a much superior operating system. It's memory management capabilities far exceeded those of MS-DOS. It was rapidly gaining market share and showing the potential to give Microsoft a run for their money....
So...
Novell bought them. Unfortunately, Novell is one the worst companies in the world when it comes to marketing. They manage to miss one opportunity after another. After about a year of not marketing DR-DOS, after changing the name to Novell DOS, they folded the operation.
Not learning from this mistake, Novell went out shopping again and came home with WordPerfect. Again they dropped the ball. Windows was fast becoming the industry standard and Novell did nothing to keep WordPerfect (the number one word processor in the world) from becoming obsolete.
This left Microsoft with the only Windows word processor. ( Microsoft Word ) By default, MS Word overtook the business sector as the number one word processor.
Eventually, Novell sold WordPerfect to Corel for a fraction of what they paid for it. Corel did make a windows version, but it was too late.
posted on March 19, 2001 04:13:32 PM
well, what pi$$e$ me off completely is that Ebay's software CANNOT EVEN BE USED BY EVERYONE. I am on a MAC and therefore am completely unable to use their PC based system. I looked into using Ebay's auction management software, and would have signed up for it in a heartbeat had I been able to use it. If they want a total monopoly why don't they consider making a system that will work for ME, and other MAC users (and yes there are a lot of us) before they start monkeying around with the innovators like Vrane who have made a product I can use?? It makes my blood boil.
posted on March 19, 2001 05:49:47 PM
YES IT MAY BE EBAYS SITE ...BUT AS MANY HAVE STATED ITS MY CLOSING AUCTION INFORMATION...WHAT HAS HAPPEND IS OTHERS HAVE SEEN A USE FOR THIS CLOSING AUCTION INFO. tHEY HAVE MADE IT EASIER FOR US SELLERS. sOME WERE FREE OTHER CHARGE A LITTLE. EBAY SEES THIS AND WANTS TO GET THERE FINGERS IN THE PIE. IT'S PLAIN AND SIMPLE I SHOULD HAVE THE RIGHT TO USE ANY COMPANY I WANT TO GRAP INFO OFF EBAYS SITE TO MAKE MY LIFE EASIER . I SHOULD NOT BE FORCED TO USE JUST THERE SYSTEM...WHEN IT'S MY INFO I WANT TO GET...COMPRESSED A SPIT OUT TO ME FASTER...IF ONE COMPANY HAS ALL THE POWER GUESS WHAT HAPPENS.....NOTHING IT STAYS THE SAME AND THERE IS LITTLE ADVANCE!!!
posted on March 19, 2001 07:32:02 PM
Maybe if ebay was really really interested in helping sellers get bid on there items they wouldnt be locking out other people who want to offer searches of there action site.
seems to me with the economy down right now and bids and sales getting slower they would want all the help they could get to keep there users item and auction moveing with bids and wins.
these out side searches arent costing ebay a single nickle to get buyers that other wise might not even both going there to look.
I have been testing with my listings since AW posted that it would be chargeing a fee for there services have been testing a few different ways of listings and if the last two weeks of tests are any indication I would say listing from AW and there universal search has been bring in at the least 20% to 30% of the bids I was getting on my ebay auctions.
also my test from yahoo auctions not listed from AW I had even worse results.
I havent done any testing for Amazon at this time but im sure the results will be the same Auction manageing and universal searches like AW incress auction sales.
I know I have several websites and any service that incress my hits and business any of them I see as a friend.
Ebay seems to be just interested in there bottom line they are not interested in how the Item I pay to list sells.
Ebay is still the best place for selling at this time but I think its greed is going to knock it down lower then yahoo in short order.
posted on March 19, 2001 11:05:24 PM
True, ebay is a company and looking to making a profit. But, providing XML code would not cost them a penny more of what they pay right now, actuually, it will ease the prrsessure on their system. But instead, They're playing with their code for the sole purpose of squeezing more money from sellers. If there was more effort invested in providing that code, I would understand, I am a Professional prgrammer with A PHD in C.S. As a matter of fact, I emailed ebay numerous times (a couple of years back)suggesting providing a simple listing which will help sellers manage their sales and ease the demand on their system, all I got is the regular B.S.
In reagard to their API, It's very easy to debug, But I have seen Their program, it's a shame with such supportbehind it, they still have a mediocre program. I wouldn't use if they give it for free.
