rarriffle
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posted on March 31, 2001 03:42:32 PM new
first, let me apologize for the size of the picture. I cannot get it through my head how to resize them, i have software, just not good at using it yet.
now for the problem, i purchased this in a jewelry box full of jewelry and a dealer tried to buy it saying it looks native american but isn't. can anyone tell me what it is?
it is 21 1/2" long and the center piece is 3" long and hard, as though the beading is around a rock or something. the beads are very tiny. well here goes the pic
[img]http://imagehost.auctionwatch.com/preview/ra/rarriffle/na1.jpg[img]
[ edited by rarriffle on Mar 31, 2001 03:45 PM ]
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Meya
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posted on March 31, 2001 03:48:16 PM new
Feel free to save the image:
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rarriffle
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posted on March 31, 2001 03:50:10 PM new
Meya, you are wonderful. I think you bailed me out last time too. I had just figured out what I did wrong this time. Now, can you help me identify it?
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Meya
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posted on March 31, 2001 03:52:45 PM new
Someone else will have to jump in for information. I don't have any knowledge of Native American items.
The folks here on AW never cease to amaze me with their knowledge.
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reddeer
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posted on March 31, 2001 04:23:16 PM new
The figural motif appears to be Papago, from the Southern Arizona area. I have no way in knowing the age of this piece, but it almost appears to be an umbilical amulet? I'm also very rusty on Native items from south of the border [Kanada], so maybe someone else will know more?
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reddeer
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posted on March 31, 2001 04:55:58 PM new
And just in case an expert shows up, here's a whatzit that I'm stumped on. It's a large serving tray basket that measures 17 inches long, 12 1/2 inches wide, and 2 inches deep.
If anyone has an idea of it's origin, I'd be grateful. It could be Northwest Coast, but I'm not certain?
[ edited by reddeer on Mar 31, 2001 05:00 PM ]
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rarriffle
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posted on March 31, 2001 05:36:22 PM new
reddeer, what is an umbilical amulet? I don't know squat about your basket, but I like it. Thank you for your input.
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reddeer
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posted on March 31, 2001 06:16:10 PM new
When a child was born, the umbilical cord was
placed in an amulet. The amulet was often used by the child as a toy and later saved for use as a charm in adulthood. Amulets were typically in shape of a turtle for girls and lizards for boys.
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rarriffle
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posted on March 31, 2001 06:36:09 PM new
reddeer that is very interesting. this has a closed loop on one end and the other end has bare string, as though a button or something was there. could this have been worn as a necklace or belt? there is definitely something in the center that the beads are covering, very hard.
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shaani
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posted on March 31, 2001 06:46:43 PM new
Some of these are beaded over special stones that have certain meanings to the owner. They are also described as fetish or perhaps talisman I think.
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rarriffle
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posted on March 31, 2001 07:41:22 PM new
shaani, thank you. unfortunately neither of these type items are listed on ebay for me to compare to.
I live within a half mile of a native american museum, hopefully it will be open tomorrow and I can get some additional advice. then I'm off to the library for more research.
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vtoc
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posted on March 31, 2001 07:43:31 PM new
Reddeer, it looks like the kind of pine needle work my grandmother used to make.
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reddeer
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posted on March 31, 2001 09:11:12 PM new
rarrifle ............ Here's a pic of a 19th century umbilical amulet.
Most likely what you have is a piece that was made to wear around the owners neck. It could have been made as a "good luck" charm?
The motif is one that is common in the Southwest US, but beyond that it's hard to say where it originated.
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reddeer
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posted on March 31, 2001 09:12:23 PM new
vtoc ........ Interesting, but there aren't any Pine needles in this basket.
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shaani
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posted on March 31, 2001 09:33:02 PM new
Reddeer, have you ever tried to trace it through any of these sites?
The braiding looks to be made from sweetgrass possibly? I don't know much about baskets.
http://www.civilization.ca/membrs/biblio/orch/www06g_e.html#tech
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reddeer
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posted on March 31, 2001 09:42:37 PM new
Thanks Shaani! I'll have a look tomorrow when my brain has defragged. I know next to nothing about Native made baskets, but this appears to be an old one. I just hate to call it Northwest Coast, and later find out it was made by an Apache. 
I listed a very small basket a few months back & stated I had no idea where it was made. The high bidder had no idea either, but he liked it & took it up to over $75.
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shaani
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posted on March 31, 2001 10:21:38 PM new
Over the years I have sold a few native baskets and all I know is that the buyers never argued the price and just asked if I could get more.
Your basket is a nice size. I know one thing about it for sure. It never had a "Made in China" sticker on the bottom.
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reddeer
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posted on March 31, 2001 10:36:09 PM new
Shaanni ...... I just got back from bookmarking numerous sites off that link, thanks! It had some great baskets, but most of them were from the Eastern half of Canada.
I'm sure I'll refer back to some of those sites in the future.
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shaani
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posted on March 31, 2001 11:44:55 PM new
The only West Coast basketry I could find was the Saltspring site and one Squamish one.
Some of the most prized sweetgrass in North America is from Manitoba. That is where we get the braids and incense we sell in our shop. Many of the braids are made by the Cree.
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rarriffle
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posted on April 1, 2001 04:23:42 AM new
Once again, great info on this thread. I love the turtle reddeer, was it kind of like a rattle?
Good luck with your basket. If I find out any really interesting new data on my whatzit, i will come back and let you all know.
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capotasto
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posted on April 1, 2001 06:38:20 AM new
If it's an umbilical amulet you can't sell it on ebay, don't they have a rule about body parts? LOL
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shaani
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posted on April 1, 2001 10:00:18 AM new
rarriffle, some of the necklaces like the one that you show have an opening to the stone in the back. The stone was also used to sharpen a knife or strike a match.
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rarriffle
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posted on April 1, 2001 12:32:50 PM new
shaani, I can see where it was closed on the one side but no opening to take the rock out.
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bhearsch
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posted on April 1, 2001 03:54:33 PM new
Does anyone else have a lagtime before reddeer's photos load? Meya's picture loaded very fast for me but reddeer's photos seem to hang a bit. Is it just me?
Blanche
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