posted on May 3, 2001 08:43:27 AM
I am a very experienced seller on ebay with a high feedback rating of over 2400+, with 99.6% of those being positives and the rest being from deadbeats who retaliated after I left negative feedback for them. All of that changed this morning---I just had a buyer who won 28 of my auctions 6 weeks ago leave a neutral feedback for EVERY last one of them, leaving "no comment" as his official complaint.
This guy never contacted me to say there was any problem, and it has been SIX weeks since the auctions all ended--I never knew there was any problem, and I am so upset that I can hardly even put it into words. I sent him an email wondering what on earth "no comment" meant, and he responded and made up some lame excuse. I never left feedback for him after he paid because I have learned several hard lessons that when I leave positive feedback for people it gives them the freedom to either make outrageous demands/complaints after they get the items and I have no way to respond.
What do I do? I wrote to ebay hoping there is some way to have them all removed due to the complaints being completely unintelligent and not clarifying any problem. Is there any chance they will? And if not, what other options do I have? Any help would be greatly appreciated, because right now I feel like I am at the end of my rope. I worked for 2 years to build up my feedback and I just had it destroyed in one morning. Thanks for your help!
[ edited by kshoops on May 3, 2001 08:49 AM ]
posted on May 3, 2001 08:51:18 AM
I wonder how he would feel about having 28 negs? Just a thought.
Or you could leave him 28 neutrals that all say "no comment" just as he's done for you.
I'm 99% sure ebay won't remove those neutrals for you. I have yet to hear of them removing ANY feedback.
Actually, it sounds like he was doing it just to be a jerk. He recieved no feedback from you, so he left you 28 "no comment" neutrals... Sounds like retaliation. I'd neg him. 28 BIG FAT negs. Just my 2 cents worth.
posted on May 3, 2001 08:52:01 AM
Isn't there an Ebay provision that says that they will remove feedback that is not transactional related? If so, this certainly qualifies. "No comment" is not related to anything.
Also, I think there is another Ebay provision that anyone who leaves more than (x) number of neg. or neut. feedback (5, 7, ?) in a row can be found guilty of "feedback bombing" and those comments can be removed.
Sorry for your misfortune.
Oh, one other thing. I also hear (from other board members, not Ebay) that if you respond to your feedback with your own name or this joker's name, then Ebay will remove the entire feedback comment and the associated feedback comment that was replied to. Something about protecting privacy. I can't verify this as I have never tried it.
posted on May 3, 2001 09:00:50 AM
luvmy2bears: lol! that would be very tempting, except as a prospective buyer, if i saw a seller had done that, it would worry me. i was going to suggest you respond to the neutrals, saying buyer didn't contact you after 6 weeks, and you have no idea what the problem is - buyer won't say! of course it'd take some work to edit that down
but i like squinkle's suggestions. didn't know about 'feedback bombing.' report it and see if ebay will remove them. if not, in this case i'd try mentioning his name and see if you can get it removed that way. you should NOT have to keep these 28 neutrals because someone's an idiot. btw, in the case of mentioning someone's name in feedback for this purpose, how does ebay know? have to wait until the person you left the feedback for reports it? email ebay and say 'whoops! i accidentally mentioned this person's name in the feedback i left'?
posted on May 3, 2001 09:01:35 AM
In your "Total" feedback count the 28 neutrals show up as only 1...Am I correct..??
However, on your "View" feedback page, they all show up...Correct..??
Soooo, you only gained 1 neutral in your total feedback count...
The few people that notice will see that as the poster being a jerk..!! Don't place so much importance on feedback...Most bidders can't/don't read anything anyhow..
posted on May 3, 2001 09:04:28 AM
Sorry for what's happened to your FB, this guy's obviously a *%&$#. I've just added him to my blocked list and e-mailed him to let know why. We deal in basically the same category(sports)and when enough sellers see this crap they'll question dealing with him also.
If it's any consolation your FB is growing fast and his garbage will be where it belongs soon enough, buried.
Wait for a response from Ebay before giving him the negs, if they say there's nothing they can do then that will apply to you also.
posted on May 3, 2001 09:43:32 AM
According to my last response from ebay, this isn't feedback bombing.
I had a situation where a bidder had won 9 auctions & had to file NPB. I checked w/ebay & so long as each was a unique auction, leaving or getting 9 negatives was not considered bombing.
It turned out okay & we left positives for each but I did check w/ebay in case it came to a neg situation.
In all fairness, why should you leave negatives or neutrals for you? Didn't he pay on time? Is your only gripe with him that he didn't leave you glowing feedback?
I agree that it would have been nice for him to have contacted you if there was a problem, but is that really a requirement for leaving feedback regarding HIS side of the transaction?
posted on May 3, 2001 09:45:29 AM
"I am a very experienced seller on ebay with a high feedback rating of over 2400+,
I just had a buyer who won 28 of my auctions 6 weeks ago leave a neutral feedback for EVERY last one of them, leaving "no comment" as his official complaint."
For being a "very experienced seller" You are freaking out over nothing. All this amounts to is one more neutral in your feedback. As an "very experienced seller" you should know that buyers will probably not even be bothered by this and see it for what it is. It could be worse.
"he responded and made up some lame excuse."
I am very interested to know what this "lame excuse" is. You don't seem very forthcoming
"I never left feedback for him after he paid because I have learned several hard lessons that when I leave positive feedback for people it gives them the freedom to either make outrageous demands/complaints after they get the items and I have no way to respond."
This is a joke. Sellers who do this have no faith in the products they sell. You want to have some leverage in case a buyer has a legitimate reason for being unhappy. If a buyer pays promptly then they have held up their end of the agreement you should leave feedback. Not wait and see what happens so you have something to hang over their heads. You have a 2000+ feedback and most buyers know what a retaliatory negative looks like.
"What do I do? I wrote to ebay hoping there is some way to have them all removed due to the complaints being completely unintelligent and not clarifying any problem. Is there any chance they will?"
You have worked yourself up into a snit over nothing, it is quite silly
"And if not, what other options do I have?"
Just bloody get over it
" I worked for 2 years to build up my feedback and I just had it destroyed in one morning."
It was not destroyed! It is silly and self-destructive to get so upset!
posted on May 3, 2001 09:58:17 AM
The buyer who left you the neutrals has left many positives for other buyers and sellers. He has also left other neutrals and negs where they appear deserved.
You silence on his "lame excuse" gives me the impression that you deserved the neutrals.
posted on May 3, 2001 10:06:30 AM
caravaggio: respectfully, i disagree. i, too, no longer leave feedback first. used to, used to think if a buyer paid, and in a timely matter, they'd held up their end of the bargain. but you're assuming that all buyers are honest, reasonable, and, er, sane. not so. nor all sellers.
i now believe feedback should reflect the entire transaction - on both sides - including how both parties handle the situation, should a problem arise.
and getting hit with 28 neutrals would bother me too!
posted on May 3, 2001 10:24:34 AM
To me, it sounds like a good opportunity to leave 28 follow-up comments, which you CAN do. You could even use all that space to write War and Peace, a sentence at a time.
posted on May 3, 2001 10:30:16 AM
Thank you all very much for your help, your assistance is appreciated. I got a response back from ebay saying that they are looking into the matter from the Safeharbor team, so I will wait until hearing back from them before taking any other actions.
Sorry I did not clarify this person's reason for the neutral feedbacks: he said that "the packaging was inadequate, and that the box was crushed when I received it." I feel that the rest of my feedback reflects the quality of my packaging and if the box was crushed, I had the package insured for the full value of what he paid for the items and would have been more than willing to file with the Post Office if I would have known there was a problem.
luvmytwobears: Believe me, I was (and still am) very tempted to do as you mentioned. I had to really try to avoid my first impulses of leaving negatives on all of those auctions right off the bat. Hopefully retaliation won't have to be my last resort, but thanks for letting me know your reaction would have been about the same as mine!
squinkle99 and kittyx3: Thanks for all the info! I am definitely going to try to see if that "feedback bombing" approach would apply in this case, because if that doesn't apply here, it wouldn't work anywhere. I also might try that idea of posting the person's and/or my name with my response on the feedback. Maybe that would get Ebay to retract the feedback also. Get this: this person has already changed their Ebay ID this morning. Hmmmmmmm.
MRBucks: You are right, the neutrals show up in my "view feedback" file, but I actually gained all 28 neutrals because they don't count positively or negatively toward my total count on Ebay. Unfortunately, it's not my total count on Ebay that I am concerned with, it's that someone checking over my feedback will see the inordinate amount of neutrals on my total and won't take the time to search through my feedback to see the reason why I have them.
punkinhed and TwelvePole: You are right, it could have been much worse if they were all negatives, it's just hard to see the silver lining right away. Hopefully the positives will keep piling on and leave the neutrals behind if Ebay won't remove them. Hopefully bidders will be able to see through this in the mean time.
eventer: You are right in the sense that this person does have the right to leave bad feedback if there truly was a problem and they don't absolutely HAVE to contact me before leaving feedback, even though Ebay reminds you several times to contact each other before leaving bad feedback. However, you would think the bidder would have to have a legit complaint, not just "no comment."
caraviggio: I apologize for "freaking out" on this matter, it was quite a shock to the system to wake up this morning and see 28 neutral feedbacks had materialized on my feedback out of seemingly nowhere. That's why I came to you all for advice before doing something I might regret later, such as simply retaliating with feedback of my own or related actions. I'm not sure that my reaction was much different than a lot of people's would have been at this point, but I tried (and am still trying) to remain calm and review my options.
My policy of not leaving feedback until the bidder receives the merchandise and says they are happy with it is not because I have no faith in the products I sell--it's because I used to leave positive feedback right away for people and then bidders would receive the item(s), claim problems of one kind or another, and demand partial or full refunds and keep the items or threaten giving me negative feedback. I have full faith in my products and service, and I don't use feedback to hold it over my bidders. I don't have to have someone give me a positive before I give them one. If they get it and say they are satisfied, then I leave positives for them because they communicated.
I will continue to try to remain as calm as I can, I just wanted to see how other buyers might view my feedback at this point. If you think that as a buyer you could look over my feedback and continue to remain confident in buying products from me, I will take a deep breath and try to relax and keep on keeping on and continue to fix things as possible. Thanks for your help, I guess I needed someone to throw the cold bucket of water on me to calm me down a bit!
posted on May 3, 2001 11:11:09 AM
"but you're assuming that all buyers are honest, reasonable, and, er, sane. not so. nor all sellers. "
I am not assuming anything, I find it hard to believe that every bidder on eBay is a nut or crooked! Look at all the positive feedback that is out there. This board makes it seem like all bidders are bad and not to be trusted. I have been selling now for over a year and always leave feedback the minute I get payment. I have never had any problem with "feedback extortion". I provide excellent customer service and if a customer has a reasonable complaint I will try my best to fix it. Getting a negative does not bother me. I have not had one yet, but I realize that when and if it happens it will not be the end of the world.
posted on May 3, 2001 01:03:06 PMThis is a joke. Sellers who do this have no faith in the products they sell. You want to have some leverage in case a buyer has a legitimate reason for being unhappy. If a buyer pays promptly then they have held up their end of the agreement you should leave feedback. Not wait and see what happens so you have something to hang over their heads. You have a 2000+ feedback and most buyers know what a retaliatory negative looks like.
No, YOUR post is a joke. The transaction is just beginning when the seller receives payment. Feedback is supposed to reflect the entire transaction, not just timely payment. After all, feedback is transaction related, not payment related.
Frauds ALWAYS pay quickly to get the seller to let down his guard. Then, after the seller has left positive feedback and the merchandise is received, it's "switcheroo time", or "give me a partial refund" time.
Nope, been there, done that. Won't let it happen again. Wouldn't be prudent.
kshoops:
There is a sure-fire way to get the neutrals removed. Just respond to all of the neutrals with something like this:
Email me at myemail@myISP and I'll tell you about this bidder.
Then send an email from a hotmail or yahoo account to safeharbor letting them know that there is fedback with an email address in it. When they see the email address in the feedback responses, they'll remove the entire exchange including the original neutrals. Trust me, it works.
posted on May 3, 2001 01:30:18 PM
kshoops, I always wait until the buyer confirms receipt of the item with no complaints or 30 days, whichever comes first, to leave my feedback, for the very reason you stated. And, I've been highly criticized for doing so. "Once you get the money..." doesn't cut it for me. Some people leave feedback the day they ship the item. That never seemed real smart for me, simply because of buyers remorse & whatever excuse they come up with.
Either an email address or a name in the response should get them removed.
"Gee, hisname never mentioned any problems to me" would be an interesting response, but maybe a bit too flip. and by the way, I'd flip out if I saw that on my feedback too. ESPECIALLY after 6 weeks!!!!
posted on May 3, 2001 01:49:29 PM
caravaggio:
I beg to differ. if I see 28 neutrals, I am VERY concerned about what happened and why. Major red flag.
dubyasdaman:
It is not only irresponsible of you, but downright stupid to post what many know works as a way to get rid of unwanted feedback. At-a-way, genius! Posting it on a public board such as this will only serve to further compromise the integrity of the feedback system, as well as give Ebay a reason to alter their feedback policies even further--and not for the better.
posted on May 3, 2001 02:06:12 PM
cin: I always wait until the buyer confirms receipt of the item with no complaints or 30 days, whichever comes first, to leave my feedback...
I do this as well. I agree with the view that feedback is voluntary and transaction related. I never ask for feedback and if the buyer doesn't leave any, that's fine. They'll still get a positive from me after I know they are happy with their purchase or if enough time has gone by that I figure they received it and have no complaints.
To the others who do things differently, that is your right and I support you. Conduct your business the way you see fit. Just don't accuse me of high crimes and misdemeanors because I happen to do things contrary to your methods.
dubyasdaman: thanks for the tip. I haven't yet received a negative or neutral, but if I get one that is undeserved, this will come in handy. If I deserve it, I'd probably respond with "Yep. My bad. Sorry, will make it right."
Oh, and if the day ever comes when I am in FEAR of a negative or a neutral, then I'm going to ask someone to neg me on purpose so I'll get over myself. I don't attach the same importance to feedback as others do. Maybe after raising 5 kids, I'm used to being unpopular. Criticism doesn't bother me anymore!
posted on May 3, 2001 02:06:52 PMThere is a sure-fire way to get the neutrals removed. Just respond to all of the neutrals with something like this:
Email me at myemail@myISP and I'll tell you about this bidder.
Then send an email from a hotmail or yahoo account to safeharbor letting them know that there is fedback with an email address in it. When they see the email address in the feedback responses, they'll remove the entire exchange including the original neutrals. Trust me, it works.
I like this.... now if a seller gives me bad feedback, I can use it for that too.
posted on May 3, 2001 02:16:11 PM
"caravaggio:
I beg to differ. if I see 28 neutrals, I am VERY concerned about what happened and why. Major red flag. "
That is your problem. If you arent clever enough to see that someone who posts 28-30 neutrals with "no comment" as a commented that is your problem
You apparently aren't clever enough to recognize what my post actually said.
28 neutrals IS a red flag, especially if the bidder HAS left positive feedback for others. What planet are YOU on?
I once left 9 negs for someone who stiffed me on 9 auctions. I guess because the bidder had other great feedback, you should discount my 9 negs because they all came from one person!
Get real.
Your motto: Hey, don't be cautious, it's only YOUR money!!
posted on May 3, 2001 02:44:46 PM
Where's the fire?
You sold 28 items, they were poorly packed. You got 28 neutrals, sounds about right.
There is no justification that you could have file an insurance claim if the items were damaged, make the buyer whole and do not deserve the neutrals. If the items were damaged because of poor packing, a complete refund does not make the buyer whole. Buyer never ended up with the item, wasted time bidding and emails, waited for a refund, etc... Buyer may desperately wanted the item and is now disappointed.
Sounds like a wakeup call to me, improve your packing.
Anyway, what is 28 neutrals for someone with your feedback. They should have already scrolled off by now.
Just a thought.
