posted on May 7, 2001 10:18:01 AM
There is nothing wrong selling priority mail boxes--as far as I can tell. They ARE free. How can you not sell what's already free?
posted on May 7, 2001 10:24:41 AM
I'm sure the USPS and Ebay will be notifying you of WHY they are not allowed to be sold. After they notify you, you will probably see a "NARU" after your Ebay ID.
[ edited by ExecutiveGirl on May 7, 2001 10:26 AM ]
posted on May 7, 2001 10:31:07 AM
Legally, the boxes are provided to you free CONTINGENT on your using them for priority mail.
You would be right if the USPS just handed them out on street corners, and said "do with these what you want, we don't care".
But they don't, so you can't.
Its quite simple, actually.
PS - I'm curious..when you borrow something from a friend/relative/roomate (i.e., you get to use it for FREE), do you then feel you have the right to sell it? Remind me not to lend you anything without charging you!
posted on May 7, 2001 10:31:13 AM
The way I understand it, these are NOT in his possession. He charges $2.50 S&H and pockets it, and then goes to the USPS website and orders the boxes and has them shipped to the bidders. That's why his auctions state they could take "10-14" days for delivery. (Which is exactly what the USPS website says when you order boxes).
posted on May 7, 2001 10:35:44 AM
Now here's an interesting angle: perhaps his auction really is for "knowledge and expertise" in finding free boxes for you...would that, then, be OK?
I haven't looked at the actual listings yet, but it just struck me that this would be an interesting way to "sell" priority boxes...just like lots of people "sell" information.
I'm not sure I see anything wrong in charging $2.50 to enter someone's name into a web site...hmmmm?
posted on May 7, 2001 10:38:27 AM
No. I have read the auctions and he is not selling the knowledge to obtain the boxes. He is selling 125 or 50 priority mail boxes/tubes. There is a starting bid and then there is a $2.50 shipping/handling charge on top of that. This seller currently has 74 auctions running for 50 to 125 boxes each of priority boxes and tubes in various sizes.
posted on May 7, 2001 10:44:12 AM
Not that I have any positive support for this auction, but I wonder if the standard disclosure that pops up when you order these says anything at all about not selling them, etc?
Common sense certainly tells us that what they are doing is bogus, but does the standard disclosure make it clear that what this person is doing is wrong or not? Usually these kinds of things say something like "personal use for priority mailing only" or something like that to eliminate resellers, but it wouldn't surprise me to find out that the USPS had worded it more vaguely....
posted on May 7, 2001 10:46:04 AM
First Off This is statement on each priority box.
"This packaging is the property of the U.S. Postal Service and is provided solely for use in sending Priority Mail. Misuse may be a violation of Federal Law"
This said please read following legal code
US Code as of: 01/23/00
Sec. 641. Public money, property or records
Whoever embezzles, steals, purloins, or knowingly converts to his use or the use of another, or without authority, sells, conveys or disposes of any record, voucher, money, or thing of value of the United States or of any department or agency thereof, or any property made or being made under contract for the United States or any department or agency thereof; or
Whoever receives, conceals, or retains the same with intent to convert it to his use or gain, knowing it to have been embezzled, stolen, purloined or converted -
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; but if the value of such property does not exceed the sum of $1,000, he shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both.
The word ''value'' means face, par, or market value, or cost price, either wholesale or retail, whichever is greater.
Those little boxes can get you in a lot of trouble.
JB
I understand that Express Mail®, Priority Mail® and Global Priority Mail® packaging is the property of the United States Postal Service and is provided solely for sending Express Mail®, Priority Mail®, Global Priority Mail® and Global Express Guaranteed®. Misuse may be a violation of federal law.
To order supplies, please click on the [ I Agree ] button below to confirm that you understand and agree to these terms. If you disagree, click on the [ I Disagree ] button to stop the ordering process.
posted on May 7, 2001 10:48:57 AM
Just an interesting note-- I noticed that they had 77 or so box auctions going. There are just a few with bids that add up to $12 total. Let's see at .30 per auction (ebay fees) x 77=$23.10 PAID TO EBAY to post them. Made $12.... not even breaking even...
Not too lucrative even if it is legit (not even going into that here-- just stating what I saw by having too much time on my hands this morning. :0)
posted on May 7, 2001 10:51:34 AM
I don't condone what this guy is doing. Just making a clarification. His description does not state a $2.50/shipping. The exact words are,
"The winning bidder can add 2.50 shipping and handeling charges to the final bid."
Emphysis on can.
He also states that you can't flip boxes inside out and use them with UPS or Fedex...
posted on May 7, 2001 10:52:49 AM
The USPS terms of Sale do not say anything about reselling the boxes. However, it says "provided solely for sending Express Mail®, Priority Mail®, Global Priority Mail® and Global Express Guaranteed®."
I would think that if the boxes are provided SOLELY for sending packages then providing them so the could be SOLD is definately a NO-NO.
posted on May 7, 2001 10:58:53 AM
And now what happens when those bidders receive those boxes, and decide to turn them inside out to use for 1st class or Media mail? They can say "Well I never signed (or agreed) that I would only use these for Priority Mail..."
His auctions state:
(This means you can't flip the boxes inside out and send them ups or fedex) I'm not telling you to do so but they are your boxes!!!
So really, in a sense, he is saying you are not SUPPOSED to use them for anything but Priority Mail - but hey, if you can get away with it...... How many people do you think would actually try to ship these another method other than Priority Mail?
But still, this is not the main issue here. You cannot get free boxes from the USPS website and sell them for a profit. If the USPS realizes that people will PAY for these boxes, who knows - they may decide to start charging EVERYONE for these boxes!!
[ edited by ExecutiveGirl on May 7, 2001 11:02 AM ]
Given the millions of people on ebay, there are always a few who won't realize they are free for the asking. Statistically, I'll bet you can round up a basketball team worth of people who still believe the earth is flat!
In many post offices, priority mail boxes are no longer directly available for the taking in the lobby (you have to ask for or order them), or they are next to the "for fee" boxes, so its not as easy to figure out they are free. After all, its kind of counterintuitive - here's a free box that would normally cost you a buck or so at your local store...
posted on May 7, 2001 11:02:38 AM
Bottom line is we will see what Ebay and the USPS have to say about it. After I got the usual canned reply from Timesensitive saying they will get to me in order I got another email from them. This one said that due to the amount of emails from Ebayers that they were looking into the matter. I have already received a reply from USPS saying that they have forwarded my email and the auction information off to the correct people.
I guess it does not matter what rainmaker thinks since it will come down to Ebay and USPS.
posted on May 7, 2001 11:03:47 AM
As far as whether or not people choose to use the boxes for priority or not;
They should use them for priority mail only. If they do not, then they are responsible for not using them properly--no matter what anyone suggests to them.
Actually, my "poor joke" wasn't really supposed to be a great analogy. It really was just to make fun of people who think they can re-sell government property (in public, no less!)
Like I say, if common sense alone doesn't tell you that what is going on is bogus, then I doubt anything else said here will help you understand.
You can't sell what you don't own.
And you don't own the boxes, even after you've taken them home. you've BORROWED them for the purposes of later mailing.
Now, I can be had that a wording change might actually make this legit - if the auction is for a SERVICE in helping people secure these free items.
But technically you aren't selling the actual boxes...
posted on May 7, 2001 11:07:21 AM
The boxes are property of USPS, you are only using them to ship items in.
You cannot sell something that you don't own.
It's called stealing, I bet these people have hundreds of Milk Crates In Their Houses Too
I get plastic rectangular mail buckets from the Post Office to use for transporting mail down the street just because they give me 5-10 at a time doesn't mean I can go and sell them.
Did make a good point about the listing fees though.
posted on May 7, 2001 11:10:00 AM
"The real puzzle is who the heck bid on them....."
One of the happy successful bidders has a User ID VERY similar to rainmaker's (the seller) ID. That person was sooooo happy with the transaction and all the great communication that they sent Rainmaker (the seller) positive feedback within 2 minutes of the auction's early close. That little transaction earned Rainmaker their first star.
Other bidder's might include those people who are unaware that USPS provides free priority mail boxes. I know quite a few people who had no idea that the priority boxes were available for free befroe I told them.
And now what happens when those bidders receive those boxes, and decide to turn them inside out to use for 1st class or Media mail? They can say "Well I never signed (or agreed) that I would only use these for Priority Mail..."
Oh, do YOU sign or agree to use them ONLY for priority mail? I don't think so--unless the USPS is reading your mind.
Also, I suppose all of you occasionally make a mistake in packing or addressing andsometimes have to reopen and/or destroy a box and start over. Do you make sure you go down to the post office to compensate them for that box you are now not going to use???
posted on May 7, 2001 11:16:37 AM
I don't know about anybody else but I did have to sign an agreement that I wasn't using the boxes for anything other than priority mail. The USPS sent out a mailer about a year or so ago with a postcard I had to sign and return in order to continue receiving the boxes.
