posted on May 8, 2001 10:10:58 AM
Recently I purchased a video tape from seller w 350 feedback, and 1 or 2 negs. I have 300 with 2 negs. I did a buy it now. After 3 weeks I emailed asking where the tape was. No response. I sent three or 4 emails saying i had gotten no response and no tape. After 3-4 weeks he responds that "he answered all of my emails" and "he shipped it right away and he remembers it because he watched THAT tape and then shipped it". After 4 weeks I sent a "still no tape email" and he wrote back that "he could not be held responsible for the slowness of the mail in my area>"!!!
Now, do I do a charge-back and neg this jerk or just forget it. With eBay's stupid feedback system, I have to assume the jerk will neg me. Is a neg worth $10????
posted on May 8, 2001 12:40:19 PM
T.O.S. said to add $3 for postage, but didn't specify the type of service. In any case, I could tie the tape to a mouse and it could go from TN to NJ in 5 weeks!
posted on May 8, 2001 01:14:31 PM
As annoying as it is to take this long I would give it a little extra time, especially if he tells you it was sent media rate, as I've heard stories of things taking up to 8 weeks to arrive. The fact that he has such high feedback with only 1 or 2 negs suggests he is an honest seller, it could be your emails are not compatible with each other and his replies to you just did not arrive.
posted on May 8, 2001 01:15:32 PM
I believe it was a CC through billpoint. I didn't think about insurance at the time (nor was it mentioned), just hit the old pay button.
posted on May 8, 2001 01:25:10 PM
HELL NO!!!!, you DO NOT knuckle under. If a neg is deserved, it you lost your money and received nothing, the HELL YES leave a neg........Never fear the neg.....i have over 900 fb with 16 negs....ALL retalitory.........Wear the neg as a badge of honor!!!
posted on May 8, 2001 01:50:09 PM
We have all read post about the horrows of cc chargebacks. Starting a chargeback is a serious step. It should not be taken until all other possibilities have been exhausted.
You say you don't know if insurance was part of the shipping price or not. 1st thing you need to do is find out. If it was, tell the seller he needs to start the claim for lost in shipment. If it wasn't..ask him to start a trace (that has to be done from his end).
If the email doesn't prove fruitful, then you pull his contact information and call him!
We have read dozens of post where sellers say the don't feel right charging insurance automatically, or they say the self-insure and they don't use DC.
This is a prime example of why that can be foolish. You sent your money (don't know if you paid for insurance or not), you haven't gotten your item and you are ready to do a chargeback on your cc!
If a buyer does not ask for insurance or declines insurance, they should have to accept the gamble. It is not right to ask a seller to refund you because an item was quite possible lost in the mail. However, this seller does owe you a 100% all out effort to have the PO locate your package! That is his job. The trace must be initiated by the sender.
If he seems to be shirking his responsibility, then you can call him and politely tell him that if does not make every effort to help you with the USPS, you will have no choice but to contact your cc to have the charge reversed. That probably will get his attention.
I still don't think you should hold a seller responsible if the package was lost by the USPS and you neglected to obtain insurance. That's my opinion and I buy muuuuch more than I sell!
posted on May 8, 2001 05:34:30 PM
The cheapest method that allows tracking is priority at 3.50 plus .40 for the confirmation. At $3, it is pretty obvious that it went out media rate. This can take a very long time. I had a tape from NY to Chicago that took over a month. Even though I explained this to the buyer, he negged me. FOrtunately, this was on yahoo where you can change the rating, so he changed it when the tape showed up a few days later. I now send everything priority with tracking. It's not worth it to me that buyers try to save a few bucks on shipping but my reputation will be ruined if the shipping takes too long.
posted on May 8, 2001 06:09:05 PM
>After 4 weeks I sent a "still no tape email" and he wrote back that "he could not be held responsible for the slowness of the mail in my area>"!!!
If I understand, you paid $3.00 for "postage". I would venture a guess that it went media mail. 3 to 4 weeks is not unusual, reguardless of what usps's website says.
Personaly, as a seller, I wouldn't consider a media mail "lost" till 6 weeks, and priority mail till 30 days. (seems a long time, but this is usps's own take on the matter, and, while rare, I've seen them take that long.) I wouldn't consider a refund earlier than that, but I would set a time limit.
As far as "he could not be held responsible for the slowness of the mail in my area", I agree with him, but I probably would have said it in another way. Sellers don't control the post office. He didn't say anything about (or at least you didn't mention) "lost mail".
ExecutiveGirl Ask:
>Did you ask for insurance? What was his TOS regarding insurance or refunds?
Good question. if you'll give us an answer, I'll give you an opinion about what should be done next.
posted on May 8, 2001 06:54:37 PM
"The cheapest method that allows tracking is priority at 3.50 plus .40 for the confirmation. At $3, it is pretty obvious that it went out media rate."
According to the USPS web site, the media rate for 1 pound is $1.30, and the cost of DC with media mail is 50 cents. so it seems the cheapest method that allows tracking is media with DC for $1.80
posted on May 8, 2001 06:57:17 PM
Insurance, on a $10 item? Seems ridiculous. The time and effort wasted in fooling with a claim like this with the P.O. would not be worth the bother for $10.
posted on May 8, 2001 07:13:30 PM
>The time and effort wasted in fooling with a claim like this with the P.O. would not be worth the bother for $10.
Granted. I would refund, but only after waiting the length of time the post office considers valid for "lost mail".
What I wanted to know about the TOS is does it say anything like "Insurance available, Seller not responsable for lost mail"(or other wording to that effect)? If so, lost mail is on the buyer.
I don't have anything like this in my tos, but some sellers do, and it's a valid tos.
posted on May 8, 2001 07:45:53 PM"Insurance, on a $10 item? Seems ridiculous. The time and effort wasted in fooling with a claim like this with the P.O. would not be worth the bother for $10."
"Granted. I would refund, but only after waiting the length of time the post office considers valid for "lost mail".
Insurance may seem foolish, but this buyer is ready to do a chargeback on his cc for this $10.00! Seems he takes $10.00 seriously! I also think it is safe to say most buyers feel the same. Of course, if you have oodles of money laying around or your profits are so high that you can absorb those lost/damaged uninsured items....my hat off to you! You are definitely doing something right!
I am constantly amazed at how many sellers can just "do" refunds (including postage) on items they sell that get lost or damaged! Where does the money to refund come from? How long can a seller give money away before they have no money to give????
I have a friend who ownes a couple of small resturants. He hired a company to come in and help him determine his actual cost/expenses to determine where his menue prices had to be set to make a profit. The guys who did this calculated the cost of the ice cubes in setting the price for a glass of tea!
In a B & M business, you just bump up your prices on all your inventory to cover the items that get lifted or broken. It's not too hard to spread $10 over a couple of thousand items. A penny here, a penny there...but, it seems to me, that is much harder to do on items auctioned since the ending price usually isn't a constant. Do you just add the $10 refunded to the starting price of the next few items sold? How many do you have to sell to get that $10 back plus a profit?
posted on May 8, 2001 07:56:27 PM
>How many do you have to sell to get that $10 back plus a profit
A few. I've refunded 2 or 3 uninsured packages out of about 1000. Lost maill isn't that common.
I insure most anything worth $50 or more, but at $1.10 per package for insurance, it IS NOT worth paying. The post office would have to be losing one out of every 9 packages before it would be worth insuring a $10.00 item. They do a little better than that
Edited to add, although it isn't mentioned in my TOS, on a package worth $10, about 5 cents of the s&h is to cover lost mail.
[ edited by Microbes on May 8, 2001 08:01 PM ]
posted on May 8, 2001 08:31:07 PM
I once had a package take 30 days. But only one. Check with the post office on the legality of "If insurance not purchased I am not responsible." Ebay sales fall under the title of "mail order" with the US post office. There may be a law that states the seller is ultimately responsible.
Here is what I did when I didn't get a $14 package sent to me. I sent this email to the seller:
Dear so-and-so,
As of today, 4-5-2001, I have not received the item that I paid for. If a seller does not complete a transaction, this is not only a violation of ebay rules, but this may also be considered fraud, and you could be subject to both civil and criminal charges.
You have 72 hours from the time this email is sent to submit proof of mailing that this package has been mailed. If I do not receive this in the time stated, I may be forced to report your actions to ebay, and also to The Internet Fraud Complaint Center. The IFCC is operated by the FBI, and local authorities in your home town of [his home town] may also be notificed. This could lead to civil and or criminal charges resulting in fines and/or jail time. The internet address for the IFCC is www.ifccfbi.gov
All forms of communication, i.e. emails will also be submitted as evidence. Any form of harrassment by any means will also be reported.
Your name
After emailing the seller 5 times and receiving no reply, I sent this type of email, and I received my $14 package in no time! Most sellers are not afraid of ebay. Most sellers are afraid of the FBI.
I would also pull up his user id so you have the phone number before you send this out.
The important thing is, after you send it, you NEED TO FOLLOW THROUGH if the seller sends harassing emails or doesn't respond. It doesn't work if you don't follow through or give the seller more time. You may not be the only one that has had a problem with this seller.
Also, don't respond in kind, if the seller sends rude or angry emails. I expected my seller to get upset, but he was VERY nice.
Also, don't worry about leaving feedback right now. You have 90 days, and threatening negative feedback doesn't usually work.
posted on May 8, 2001 11:13:02 PM
My thanks to you all. I'll give it one more week. With all of my transactions on eBay I've always bought larger items which are usually shipped under the carriers std insurance. I always read the TOS and check feedback, but never thought of confirmation or insurance on the small stuff! Funny thing is on the item I bought to REPLACE this one the seller did spell out EVERYTHING including insurance. Shipping and ins was more than the item!
My major problem was no answers to emails (he probably thought it would arrive by the time he responded), and then the "oh well" attitude. I will probably wind up by doing a chargeback and not leaving the neg. Otherwise I could just see taking a neg AND being ripped off at the same time.
you may want to look at the listing that the USPS has on ebay, they say right on their own ads that if you want it insured you better pay for insurance or it's tough nuts. not sure what you would tell them?
"Insurance or tracking is not included in the shipping and handling cost. If you are the successful bidder and desire insurance or tracking, you must contact us prior to paying. Without insurance, we cannot process a claim in the event of loss or damage."
posted on May 9, 2001 05:58:40 AM
I recently had a buyer who did not receive their package in what we both considered a reasonable amount of time. Before starting any "processes" I asked her to check with her post office in case it was just lying around waiting to be claimed. That's where she found it. You might want to take a little trip down to your post office and see what might be waiting for you somewhere in the back room.
posted on May 9, 2001 06:59:11 AM
I offer optional insurance to my buyers, and my TOS says I'm not responsible for lost mail if they don't buy it.
BUT - The one item that the PO mangled, that was not insured, I paid for. And I'll do it again.
For expensive items, if the buyer doesn't pay for insurance, I do and tell them it's a bonus becuase their business means so much to me.
It doesn't happen that often.
I make enough profit to eat the occasional loss.
It creates good will, which keeps my feedback clean.
Having made this decision in advance lowers my stress level.
