posted on May 27, 2001 11:57:13 PM
ebaY has decided the World Wide Web is now a one way street that runs ebaY's way. Effective 31 May, they are no longer allowing links from sellers auction listing pages to the sellers website, web page or ANY page unless it is directly related to the item on sale on that particular auction. There are a few restricted exceptions that allow you a link out to the web, such as allowing a link to a gallery of ebaY items, a discrete link to give credit to a third party service provider, a discrete link to an organization that confers legitimacy on the seller and/or offers services. It also allows a link to the sellers email address, and links within ebaY and to other ebaY owned companies such as Half.Com. Though it is your paid for advertising page on a site that claims to be a venue only, ebaY is cutting your way to link out and only allowing links in.
We do not believe that ebaY has thoroughly thought through this policy. We feel it is harmful to ebaY's users and antithetical to the very thing that allowed the creation of ebaY in the first place - the web. The policy is actually in direct violation of ebaY's own user agreement, which directly states what kind of links are not allowed, none of which are included in this latest policy interpretation change of ebaY's. ebaY is not changing it's user agreement to reflect these changes, but instead is making a policy change that amounts to a set of unwritten rules, that if not adhered to, will cause the ending of auctions and suspension from ebaY.
So what can you do to fight back?
1. List and buy on other sites. Even if you place a small percentage of your items on other sites, many of which are free or charge a final value fee only, this will help increase the variety of items on other sites, which in turn will bring buyers. If you buy on other sites, you might find yourself getting some real great bargains, and you will encourage sellers to list more. With increased traffic, new marketplaces will become more viable forcing ebaY to compete for your attention, and lose their current virtual monopoly. Include links to all your auctions on sites off ebaY, in every end of auction notice and every correspondence you send out. Sellers can put notices in their auction packages and buyers can add a note about the sites they buy from, with every payment they send. ebaY was built by word of mouth, and it is NOT the only option for online auctions and trading.
2. ALL ebaY users should remove all links they have that lead TO ebaY, from every page they might have an ebaY link on. The Internet is not a one way communication tool, and if ebaY thinks it will benefit by these draconian policies, we hold that the sellers should show ebaY who is the prime beneficiary of links. ebaY is one site where a small percentage of users will click on a seller's website link, but sellers have millions of links that go TO ebaY. Does ebaY think that they can cut off the seller's links and that the sellers won't reciprocate? We hope ALL sellers reciprocate and cut the links in, until ebaY changes its policy.
3. Review ebaY owned companies and corporate partner auctions. Search out and report every violation of this policy on auctions conducted by ebaY Premier (Butterfields), Disney, USPS etc. (list of corporate User IDs available) Though ebaY may not care what their smaller sellers say, how long will the likes of Disney put up with hundreds of auctions being ended by ebaY? ebaY has specifically stated that these link policies will be enforced across the board on ALL their users. ebaY also told The Industry Standard, that they were depending on users to enforce this policy for them, " EBay spokesman Kevin Pursglove said that enforcing the anti-hyperlink policy will "involve a large dependency on eBay users" So we will do just as ebaY asks, just NOT against small sellers and individuals, just against the large corporate sellers. As a corollary, DON'T turn in small sellers who violate the policy.
4. Use ebaYs own tools to build your customer list. Put up highly desirable item at very tempting price with a restricted bidder list. Interested buyers have to email you to get permission to bid and added to your bidder list. Get them to sign up for your opt in customer list, explaining how ebaY's restrictive policies make it necessary to have a customer list in order to protect both the seller and buyer from risk of suspension. Once you get their opt in permission in writing, you can prove to ebaY that you have a relationship with this customer outside of ebaY. This also gives you an opportunity to send links to other sites you have like items listed on, and provide the buyer an incentive to buy at the alternate site as opposed to buying on ebaY. Which brings us back to number one.
You can buy and sell the same way you are doing now, but use these methods as a platform to build your business and expand your horizons. You might be able to shape ebaYs actions with these ideas, but more importantly you will help build a future for person to person trading on the world wide web. -Rosalinda
posted on May 28, 2001 06:17:01 AM
"The policy is actually in direct violation of ebaY's own user agreement, which directly states what kind of links are not allowed, "
I did not find mention of allowed links in the User Agreement, can you give me a quote? Thanks.
posted on May 28, 2001 03:47:10 PM
"ALL ebaY users should remove all links they have that lead TO ebaY, from every page they might have an ebaY link on. The Internet is not a one way communication tool, and if ebaY thinks it will benefit by these draconian policies, we hold that the sellers should show ebaY who is the prime beneficiary of links. ebaY is one site where a small percentage of users will click on a seller's website link, but sellers have millions of links that go TO ebaY. Does ebaY think that they can cut off the seller's links and that the sellers won't reciprocate? We hope ALL sellers reciprocate and cut the links in, until ebaY changes its policy. "
Your post is wondeful...How about if we all posted something similar in EVERY Commentary Section of Every Newspaper all over the Country?" How many AW board users are actively here that would make a dent? Ebayers should voice their opinions in a public way. That would get the shareholders attention and maybe make a change. What about their shared link program is that now down the drain or a one way street. How nice Ebay.
posted on May 28, 2001 06:42:29 PM
mrgroup: Excellent post!
However, I find I no longer care to fight the eBay contingent. I too have been diversifying for a while now and am quite happy with the results.
I now list the majority of my things on epier. I really like that site the best of all the ones I tried, so I have made the decision to stick with them until Christmas. But I do keep a few things on other sites as well. I think that until sellers make a unified and organized decision to support another site (or more) then eBay will still get the majoritiy of buyers. But as it's been pointed out before, if the sellers don't list, the buyers can't buy, and to my way of thinking that is where the power of change lies.
I want to add that I do appreciate those who will take a stand against eBay, as it takes a lot of work and effort to do so. However, at the end of the day perhaps the best way to fight the e-Boys is to simply leave.
posted on May 28, 2001 07:28:58 PM
Pwolf...Rnrgroup is tagnotes/auctionguild.
But I agree..it would be nice to give the information that she IS tagnotes so new people to this board aren't misled into thinking Rnrgroup is quoting from some news source when in fact she wrote the information she is quoting
posted on May 29, 2001 07:05:16 PM
dzge tone the colors on your website down a little. The blue on red is hard on the eyes. and the green on red for visited links is also hard on the eyes (and may not even be seen by someone that's color blind)
Haven't looked over the whole site, but that would be a start.
posted on May 29, 2001 08:33:55 PM
The new link policy doesn't bother me. I've always had a page on my website that contains a list of all my auctions -- all I have to do is switch my link from the main page of my website to the page with the list. It's a simple change, it'll still draw people to my website, and it shouldn't violate eBay's rules.
As for a boycott -- I will not participate. I've tried the other sites, and there's one BIG problem with them -- there aren't enough bidders! Maybe a boycott is feasible for hobby sellers, but for someone who makes their entire living selling on eBay, it's not practical - or smart.
eBay could be better. But so could a lot of things. That's life.
But go right ahead and boycott if you want. I won't miss the competition.
posted on May 29, 2001 11:07:38 PM
if you check some of the "big boys" have new auctions listed that will close after the 31st deadline that are in violation of their links policy. I have not listed anything new because I and redoing all our auctions, I see it didn't stop them.
I wonder how prepared ebay is to receive a email for every auction listed that is not in compliance with their rules? if there is a seller with 100 auctions and say 100 people send in separate emails for each auction that is 10,000 for just one seller 10 sellers is 100,000 emails, 100 sellers is 1 million emails. if the sellers really wanted to get organized and hit them every which way they could, email campaign, web sites, advertising, charge backs for services not provided, bumper stickers that say ebay killed my cat.....I could no longer afford to feed him.
email:
when you find a seller in violation of any rule copy and post all the auction numbers so everyone can send a email for each auction even after it has been ended, break up the auction numbers like auction number 1 2 3 451245 is in violation of your links/PayPal reward/font size too big rule, or whatever. if you break up the auction number it would make it next to impossible to filter the emails out. use different email addresses, one person could send the same emails from 10 different email addresses pretty easily. I wonder it their servers could take the load.
web sites:
all the sellers that are in compliance have a link on their EOA that pints the buyer to a central site that list other sellers and their web sites, as a special to you take 10% off of the regular price on any of these other merchants items, also take 10% off any item in our on line store when added to this auction it will ship free, that sort of stuff.
Advertising:
advertise everywhere that do to the changes at ebay you have had to change how you sell and the best deals are now on your web site because there are no ebay fees to pay.
there are hundreds of ways you can play by their rules and really bring them to their knees, but I'm guessing that everyone would think it to be too much work.
posted on May 30, 2001 12:43:03 AM
Excellent post, Rosalinda!
QUOTING AIRGUY: "there are hundreds of ways you can play by their rules and really bring them to their knees, but I'm guessing that everyone would think it to be too much work."
You've got that right .. and ebay knows it! If you (general 'you') sit still and 'take it', well .. you're gonna 'get it.'
How much work would it take a full-time, ebay-dependent seller to list 2 or 3 items on another site and let them sit there?? I mean really! Go ahead and list at ebay if that's your main source of income or even if you just want to (I still do) but isn't it time we ALL work on creating a little healthy competition here??
What are 'YOU' going to do when the day comes that 'YOU' can't list there for whatever reason (new rule, fees to high, fill in the blank). I would think that sellers who depend on ebay for their income would have the MOST at stake in making sure they cover their A$$ES just in case! What would be the alternative if that did happen? Praying that others have built a site up enough that it's viable for 'YOU' to use too?
JMHO
Edited to add .. I think I'll start a thread entitled "What are YOU going to do?" to find out just exactly what those who are 'ebay exclusive' WOULD do if they were suddenly cut off!
[ edited by tuition44years on May 30, 2001 12:52 AM ]
posted on May 30, 2001 07:44:34 AM
eBay isn't seriously concerned that it's members will organize and leave. Maybe eBay should be concerned, but it isn't. eBay has survived rumble upon rumble of angry villagers at the gates, pitch forks in hand. Right now, eBay only fears one thing, BAD PRESS. JMO.
National or Global press coverage reaching millions, is the kind of pressure that can change eBay. Enough people following some of the advice in this thread could possibly generate enough pressure to do it. The thing is, what exactly do "we" want eBay to be? Do "we" know what eBay "should" be?
posted on May 30, 2001 07:56:32 AM
Just to let everyone know that I sent a email to epier because I wanted to check it out but it looked too much like ebay and I thought maybe they owned it or something. Why would some one take the chance to design it like ebays and risk getting sued. Well info@epier which is their email contact number came back in my email as unsendable.
posted on May 30, 2001 08:25:20 AM
Regarding the idea of playing "deputy" and turning in the BIG boys to eBay for Linking Policy violations etc. is a GOOD ONE in my opinion... but all self (or eBay suggested?) appointed deputies should know that eBay does not intend to NARU sellers for FIRST TIME violation.
When gathering information about volume violations... deputies should make a LIST.
Turn them into Safeharbor which will result in an "investigation" into the violation and if eBay determines that the seller is violating the Policy on LINKS... they will give the seller a WARNING for the first offense.
This is IMPORTANT to note, since anyone seeking to find out if eBay will in fact NARU the "BIG BOYS" equally, would need to do a follow-up search in a couple of weeks on the list of Volume Violators they've turned in (from the first time) to find out if they continue to violate the policy.... and if they are STILL violating that policy after receiving a warning, THEN turn them in for a SECOND time... which may (SHOULD?) have an actual disciplinary action UP TO or INCLUDING SUSPENSION.
jib444: I actually called the telephone number that was located on the Home Page (I think) of ePier last week. A fella named "James" answered the phone after several rings (about the time an answering machine also picked and played in the background)... the recording sounded NOTHING like a BUSINESS recording... and the guy actually hanged up the telephone on me when I wouldn't say who I was before he would identify himself.
<p>I called back AGAIN right away... and this time he picked up sooner. I quickly told him NOT to hang up the phone on me. I finally got him to identify himself as someone from ePier. We had a nice little conversation... and I tried to find out if they had some financial backing etc. - Never got a straight answer out of him, other than he and some of his college graduate friends are committed to providing their members excellent service. He was nice enough... but I did NOT find the conversation very reassuring. (just thought I'd mention it) *sigh*
Rather than spend more of my holiday weekend listing items on ePier (which was going to be my next move)... I placed more items up for sale at www.sellyouritem.com and within an HOUR I had bids on two of the items that I had listed.
Currently, my page view hit counts combined for 38 items that are running on SYI are over 300 UNIQUE views. So I KNOW that folks are on the SellYourItem site lurking... and waiting for more items to be available. (I've also had a couple of Buy Now items end and there are a few bids on other items that are not scheduled to go off for another couple of days)... since the hit counts are reasonably high for such a new site, it will be interesting to see if folks are planning any last minute bidding/sniping! *fingers crossed*
RM: I think you bring up some valid points in this thread. What REALLY motivates the PTB at eBay to take note? (Negative PR on a large scale) and What do "we" REALLY want in an auction site?
posted on May 30, 2001 08:30:03 AM
Just adding my two cents here - stay away from using complementary colors together when you design your Web pages. For those of you who don't remember them from HS art class, they are:
Red and green
Yellow and purple
Blue and orange
One hint I liked was that if you use a colored background, use white or black text (whatever is easier to read on the background color you chose). If you use colored text, use a white or drab background (again, whatever is easier to read).
posted on May 30, 2001 09:12:02 AM
I doubt if the new rules apply to the big corporations. They have probably cut their own special terms of service with eBay.
And if they haven't, do you think eBay is going to stonewall them when they do threaten to pull their stuff if ebay doesn't permit them the links they are now using (or might use in the future)?
I think the most effective way to combat the 500 pound gorilla that is eBay is not to engage them in a fruitless arm wrestling match where they hold all the advantages.
Better to find or help build other 500 pound gorillas to share the playground with eBay. While the gorillas are busy wrasslin' with each other over the toys (us, in other words) we will have the option of placing our auctions where we will get what we consider the best deal.
posted on May 30, 2001 10:18:46 AM
I have been reading post from the thread and others about what can be done to make ebay listen.
I first took notice of ebay when The Today Show and Rose O'Donnell started talking them up and donating items to sell. Maybe an email and letter writing campaign, overload, to these two groups might get some negative press for ebay. This might put some pressure on them to re-think some of their plans.
I agree that the ultimate goal of ebay is to have complete control of every aspect of the auction. Having this control they can charge for every little thing and keep the buyers and sellers from making outside deals. All this is about is money for the shareholders and management. This is just business. We have the right not to do business with them in return.
With that being said one of the problems I have is that I can not use AM PRO to list my items on other sites. Ebay will soon make it impossible for any third party to use their system. I use AW Pro because it is easy, fast and the picture hosting at AW works great. I have put on hold a new business venture, listing company, until I find out what ebay has planed. I have invested over $75,000 dollars in setting up this business. Now it’s wait and see.
AW should consider, if they haven’t already, starting or maybe taking over an auction site. JMHO
posted on May 30, 2001 05:21:26 PM
I clicked a button for the email address. It showed up as the email address on their site. So to answer your question. I did get the email address right and I use a earthlink system which is very reliable.
posted on May 31, 2001 07:05:55 AM
Thank you for the advise. I changed the background to white. I just didn't know if I should have a background color and I don't know much about color schemes. I was probably causing a few headaches!
