posted on June 1, 2001 07:25:14 AM
Usually I don't come here to vent, but this one is a doozy for me.
1. Auction closed 4/23. Sent out EOA 4/23.
2. No response or payment from buyer, so I sent a second notice 5/07.
3. Still no response, so I file NPBA on 5/21.
4. I file FVF yesterday, 5/31. Before I can neg her for nonpayment, the system automatically suspended her. Obviously, mine was the filing that triggered it. She has neutrals and negs, some recent, most of them for nonresponse and nonpayment.
At no time did any of my emails bounce back to me.
Now, I get the following email late last night:
As in my original message I requested a Billpoint invoice, which I have yet to get---I will pay one when I get one and after you lift the non-paying buyer alert you have put on me. DO NOT ADVERTISE BILLPOINT unless you are willing to send an invoice, because you cannot pay without one. Thank you.
-----Original Message-----
From: Brenda J. Grolle <[email protected]>
To: XXX
Date: Monday, April 23, 2001 12:23 PM
Subject: XXX: eBay Auction # XXX
>Hi,
>
>Thank you for buying XXX, on eBay.
>
>Winning Bid: $XXX
>Media Mail Shipping: $XXX
>Total Due: $XXX
>
>You can view this auction at:
>
>http://XXX
>
>My address is:
>
>Brenda J. Grolle
>XXX
>XXX
>mailto:[email protected]
>
>If you need faster delivery via Priority Mail/Airmail, please let me know
>and I will send a notice with the upgraded shipping charges.
>
>If you are not in the United States, your shipping charge is $5.00 Surface.
>
(The rest of the EOA is deleted for brevity.)
Please also note that she responded to my EOA with this email, proving that she did indeed receive it back in April.
I responded with this:
1. I've never received any emails from you, never. I've double-checked my records in Outlook and you've never communicated with me regarding this auction. I sent the first notice, a second notice, then the NPBA. You had plenty of chances to try and work this out.
2. I cannot lift the NPBA because I've already filed for FVF. I notice that you've been suspended, or else you would have had a fresh negative on your record for nonpayment. It's been over 5 weeks since the auction ended. Why didn't you try to get in touch with me before now?
3. You are totally incorrect about Billpoint. It is possible for buyers to pay without receiving an invoice and has been for quite awhile now. The proof of that is right here:
http://www.billpoint.com/
I receive payments from my buyers several times a week without ever sending an invoice. So please get your facts straight before trying to tell me how to run my business.
4. I've relisted the auction, so therefore, it is no longer available to you.
Generally, I try not to sound harsh regardless of how the buyers come across to me. But I think you have your facts very confused and are accusing me of being irresponsible regarding this transaction, which I deeply resent. Think that one over.
Then from her:
Thanks to your actions I cannot even try to pay for my item by Billpoint and as I indicated to you in my first e-mail that was how I intended to pay.
Now me:
Didn't you read in my last email that I NEVER GOT ANY EMAIL FROM YOU? If I had, believe me, I certainly would have sent you an invoice. Why wouldn't I want to have made it a simple matter for you to pay? That doesn't make sense.
And when you didn't get any response other than the second notice and the NPBA, why didn't you contact me before now?
As a seller, what would you have done if all the emails went unanswered and it was 5 weeks after the auction closed?
I added that last paragraph because she has some negs for misrepresenting products, so I know she also sold.
Now her:
I'm sorry I cannot find any e-mails regarding this auction, I really wanted this book for my dad. I tried to use Billpoint, but am blocked.
So, she can't find any emails, yet she responded using the EOA notice? And in that first email she demanded that I remove the NPBA or else she won't pay me. Right... Seems like she got more emails than she's admitting to. And now she's trying to pay 5 weeks later after I've just informed her the item has been relisted and is no longer available for her.
Now another from her:
Still do not have nor have been able to find any e-mail from you except the first. Please forward to me. Thank you.
I never received the NPBA---I have looked, I always go back and check to make sure I have paid after that.
Again, she claims she didn't receive it, but she wanted me to remove it. Go figure.
I don't know why, but I did forward all the relevant emails to her this morning.
When people try and lie their way through something, it only makes them look worse.
Also, an important lesson here is that filing for FVF's does accomplish something. Mine got her suspended, which she deserved. She had 3 neutrals for nonpayment (obviously left by sellers afraid of retaliation) that should have been negs. She has 3 negs for nonpayment. That's 6 times that she didn't pay, yet she was still going.... If the system hadn't suspended her, she would have gotten a 7th neg from me.
Sure, there are some sellers who don't feel an obligation to report these bad buyers. Retaliatory negs, too much trouble, and all that. But I'll bet those same sellers don't like it when they check into these deadbeats' backgrounds and found out they should have been suspended long ago before they had a chance to mess with their auction.
[edited to try and fix coding errors and to add the following:]
Sorry, I just get so mad when someone trys to place the blame on me for something that's their fault. I truly despise people that refuse to take responsibility for their own actions, or failure to act as in this case.
[ edited by BJGrolle on Jun 1, 2001 07:32 AM ]
posted on June 1, 2001 07:37:05 AM
I can't shake the suspicion that this person is having fun getting a rise out of you.
Why not just consider the matter closed and ask him/her not to contact you any more. I also recommend blocking that user ID from bidding on your auctions. When the NARU is lifted, that person might be back.
There is no point in wasting time trying to reason with a bonehead.
posted on June 1, 2001 09:09:50 AM
It does seem to be a game with some people, seeing if they can make you mad. Get many postdated checks? I really loved that one and the multiple email excuses.
posted on June 1, 2001 10:43:07 AM
Brenda, You did the right thing.
I have this habit of checking my bidder's feedback when they bid. I probably would have noticed all the nonpayment negs if they were there while she was bidding and canceled her bid. But, as I said it's my habit and not a necessary evil. She sounds like she was trying to buy time.
Block her, send her a note asking her never to bid on your auctions again and cc safeharbor. Then delete her emails or bounce them back.
If she ever comes back with the same ID and it's within 60 days, you can leave your feedback. But this type of person won't come back with the same ID, she'll use a different one.
posted on June 1, 2001 10:55:40 AM
Thanks, mtnmama. 5 more days till that full moon.
Recently I had a different bidder try to pay 5 weeks after the auction closed (what, is that a magic number or something?). I'd already left the neg and then the buyer emailed me to offer PayPal. Well, again, I'd already relisted, so I declined. I'm not much inclined to finalize a transaction with someone who can't be bothered to communicate with me for 5 weeks anyway.
So, she responds to the neg stating that she offered to pay by PayPal and I refused. A feeble attempt to make me appear unreasonable. I simply responded to her response that PayPal had been offered 5 weeks after the auction closed and the item was already relisted.
Must be something to do with the month of May. There has been a rapid increase in NPB's for me.
Shades of things to come over the summer, I guess...
posted on June 2, 2001 01:37:07 PM
Well, I thought I'd heard the last of this woman, but you won't believe what she did now!
Today I get a check from her in payment for the auction that closed on April 23rd, despite the fact that I made it clear in my emails she no longer had any right to the item and it had been relisted. It closes on Thursday the 7th, in fact.
Not only that, but she had the nerve to date the check April 24th, the day after the original auction closed! Like I'm really supposed to think she wrote the check out that day? Especially after her insistence on paying by Billpoint. And the envelope is postmarked yesterday, June 1st. Inside she wrote a note instructing me to ship it to another individual at a different address, perhaps the dad she referred to in her emails.
I'm tempted to do one of the following:
1. Put the check through the shredder and let her wonder what's going on. Refuse to communicate at all with her anymore.
2. Put the check through the shredder and email her to let her know that I've done so and tell her exactly what I think of her tactics.
3. Wait until the auction closes on Thursday. If it closes without bids (she did win this one on the relist), then cash the check and send the stupid thing to her dad and be done with it.
posted on June 2, 2001 01:49:52 PM
I'd pick 3. Not to give her a break, but only because it's in your best interest if the relisted item doesn't sell this time around.
In general, I'm in favor of not engaging these folks in protracted email debates. Bottom line- pay in a reasonable time, or I'll do the NPB/FVF thing and move on.
I've got one deadbeat from 2 months ago who recently got suspended for his third (or is it fourth) NPB warning. After 2 months of silence, he started pummelling me with daily emails wanting to complete the transaction. Amazing how these folks come to life when they get suspended.
posted on June 2, 2001 04:09:56 PM
I am not sure why you waited so long in the first place to file an NPB alert. If someone doesn't respond in 7 days, I send the alert.
You aren't obligated to babysit a deadbeat. It's hard enough to run a business without putting up with time wasters.
And I wonder how many buyers you must antagonize unnecessarily by filing so soon?
When I was a newbie seller, I followed the example of many and required payment within 10 days. Guess what? This prompted buyers to not write the check for 10 days, more often than not. Also, I filed a lot more NPBA's, and guess what? I never did get paid by most of them. That meant I had to do a lot more relisting.
Now my policy is to wait 2 weeks from the auction close. Most of the time I get payment within that time. If not, I send the second notice and give another week. That generally prompts the payment to come within that 3rd week. If I don't get payment, then I file the NPBA. Generally, if it comes to that, they're not going to pay. Then, of course, I have to wait the 10 days to file for FVF, which I always do.
A little leeway doesn't hurt. People can make mistakes. That doesn't mean they need babysitting.
posted on June 2, 2001 06:30:41 PM
I just wanted to take a moment to thank everyone who has voted. It helps to get your different opinions. And, no offense meant, mballai.
FYI, my husband voted for #3 and if the auction closes with bids, then #1.
I'm going to try and take a little vacation from the boards and see how much more productive I can get. You know, you swear you're only going to check in for 15 minutes to see what's new and, before you know it, an hour has gone by and the kid is getting up or it's time to cook dinner and there goes any real auction work.
