posted on June 22, 2001 11:36:22 AM
Most discussions about co-ops are all talk about the stability, lower prices and safety for sellers that they will provide.
But, Buyers are the key to a site's success. What do you Buyers want that eBay isn't giving you? What can a Co-op give you that the larger sites like eBay can't? Where is eBay failing the Buyer? If you had a wish list as a Buyer- what would be on it?
Thanks!
posted on June 22, 2001 01:11:26 PM
as a buyer,i prefer to shop on well known sites which are well capitalised and professionally managed.
as a seller i prefer to sell on well known sites which are well capitalised and professionally managed.
it takes money to make money,if big sites produce resuults for buyers and seller,they deserve to get paid-in other words THEY EARNED IT!!
posted on June 22, 2001 06:01:11 PM
By having a strict code of ethics for SELLERS;
by establishing a system of feedback that works better/is more dependable than the one most of us are accustomed to dealing with;
by having some kind of review board available to buyers when they feel they've been ripped off (as opposed to leaving them twisting in the wind, as eBay does in most cases);
by allowing sellers and bidders to communicate freely and through their own emails;
by nurturing the mindset among SELLERS that the site must/will cater to BUYERS in making them feel they can bid/buy in safety on the site;
by providing information and chat boards geared to buyers/collectors . . . . (and not allowing them to be "taken over" by sellers) . . .
posted on June 22, 2001 08:01:24 PM
sounds like UTOPIA,in real life many co-ops are undercapitalised,lack depth in management and skills,too much bickering and infighting.
worse,undercapitalisation leads to understocking the shelves which leads to poor sales.
one of the secret of ebay is that it enables every man,woman and child to list whatever he/she deems will sell,thus producing a vast array of goods not to be found anywhere else.
such diversity and volume of merchandise cannot be replicated among private enterprises or co-ops.
every minute of the day,there is someone putting up a new item for bid !!
amazon has stumbled upon this same concept when it creates marketplace,whatever amazon does not stock,someone else may have it.
traditionally when a book goes out of print,the big retailer will just wash its hands,but now you can easily find a used or new copy on marketplace-it is called POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!
posted on June 22, 2001 08:29:17 PM
Hwah- I can understand your wanting to shop and sell with the tried and true. Many do just that - ask Walmart! But in reality those tried and true places may not provide the extra, specialized or personalized services to Buyers that a smaller coop may be able to by dint of the fact that it is not a goliath.Whether a coop can exist as a profitable business isn't the point of my question. Although many agree with you - some of us don't. Time will tell.
I am asking Buyers what the larger auction like eBay DOESN'T provide for the Buyer. What would they like to have in terms of services or extras that a coop might provide, perhaps because it is smaller.
posted on June 22, 2001 08:55:11 PM
but how can you not talk $$ profit when you talk business,a co-op is a business,right??
it wont be around if it cannot pay its bills,landlord frown on deadbeat renters!!
any way,you are asking what buyers want that they are not getting from ebay??
well,one thing for sure,they want LOWER PRICES!! as if the prices are not low enough already!
what they really want is for the sellers to give away our merchandise plus our time.
they want the item to grow in value-now thats a big topic,how could anything grow in value,well they will tell you they want it old or vintage ,if not antique.
see,an item being old or vintage has a headstart over a new item because we all know how valuable antiques are and the older stuff are closer to antiques than the new stuff made yesterday,kind of like an 85 years old grandma is better than a 48 years old divorcee.
so down in their hearts there is the seed of good old capitalist entrepreneurship,hoard something old and let it grow in value thru the passage of time,kind of like a savings account or rather a zero coupon bond !!
we all know zero coupon bond does not pay interest,but it matures from 45 % of face value to 100% face value down the road.
in their continuous quest of achieving this dream of collecting face value of such zero coupon bond,they encounter joy,frustration,satisfaction,pride and make friends and enemy.,not to mention countless hours of entertainment sitting in front of the pc bidding,getting outbidded,bid again and sniping.
do they want better service??
of course they do,they expect the sellers to ship pronto,a life size dinosaur in a 35 cents jiffy enevleope.
they could be late in payment,buy you the seller can never be late in shipment.
so in a nutshell,they want everything but they dont want to pay!!
if a group of sellers can form a co-op and deliver great items below cost with outstanding service,it will sure beat ebay in no time.
posted on June 22, 2001 09:03:42 PM
forget to mention-in a different thread some one pointed the way to a book co-op.
one nite i went up and there and did a search and nothing showed up.
tell me it aint so,so i key in basic words such as THE,AT,book and nothing shows up.
i emailed the site operator and beat a clumsy retreat.
2 days later i received two emails explaining why the search yielded no results,well they were doing a big database reoriganisation.
well,my question is -
can they find a different time than prime timeto do such work??
so this is not what i call customer service.
posted on June 22, 2001 11:02:46 PM
I've been to the so-called co-op site auctionpie.com and am not very impressed. There's nothing there. If the number of posts on their message board is any indication of the support for a co-op site then there isn't any. This site has been there for a while now and little progress has been made.
posted on June 23, 2001 01:55:38 AM
Good topic, Cathy.
hwahwahwahwa, eBay certainly has much to offer buyers. You could say their earned their place. However, buyers are for the most part unaware of the other side of the coin, which is eBay's monopolistic practices. Microsoft also earned its place at the top of the dog pile, but that didn't keep them out of federal court to answer for their deeds.
eBay may offer a great selection and prices, but buyers are also sensitive to the welfare of their sellers. For example, most of us would not buy products we know come from sweatshops or forced labor camps. We would not buy products made from endangered species. "Biggest" does not always mean "best."
I've been buying and selling at eBay for several years, since it was called AuctionWeb. I saw what made eBay wildly "successful," and how eBay is now a big machine. In keeping with the topic of this thread, here are some things that made eBay great, but which have now been lost.
A community feeling: In the early days, there were far fewer members. That created a kind of a team spirit. Contacts were made with strangers, but the feeling was more like "friends we hadn't met yet." Each deal was concluded with a kind of "secret eBay handshake." Today, the sheer numbers, plus all the pros and scam artists that have moved in, and eBay's public offering which put the membership at the mercy of the almighty dollar, have destroyed that community atmosphere.
Quality of items: It used to be fun to browse the listings. Just browse. There was so much cool and interesting stuff. You almost always found something unique to bid on, even when you weren't looking. That fun hobby of "window shopping" has been replaced by categories hundreds of pages long, full of cheap junk.
Fewer items: Because of the sheer size, buyers are forced to use the search engine, and many of the best deals get missed. Bidding has been replaced by sniping, often done by robots. Bids are placed by machine; the customer never even gets near the auction. If a bidder does happen to find an auction, he knows something similar will be coming along next week, and it usually does.
Real live support: eBay used to have a live support board. You could post a question and get an answer within a few minutes. Now, email is done via email. The first response, which usually takes several days, is a canned response indicating support never read your email, but picked out keywords and sent you a form response. They figure, if it's important, you'll write back. That often takes several attempts. eBay has lost touch.
Those are a few of the ways eBay has changed for buyers, and their experience has diminished. Yes, I think a co-op, even a small site or perhaps a specialty site CAN still be fun for buyers. And I think that once co-ops catch on (the new .coop domain will be available next year) you'll find the quality items are there, while eBay will be nothing but an online Wal-Mart. Online flea marketing is fun, and while we have eBay to thank for that, eBay was inevitable.
Mike, the question is (paraphrasing), "what can a co-op site offer bidders?" Any ideas?
posted on June 23, 2001 08:51:11 AM
As a buyer, some of the things I want are value, safety, convenience and a pleasant experience.
When wanting a can of Diet Coke I'll settle for a working vending machine at a closed Bait and Tackle shop.
Going out to eat with family or friends usually creates a higher threshold of expected service.
Same with other purchases. Some are driven by convenience and I will spend my money at the first location providing the item with it's door open.
In other case I will drive miles, passing many shopping opportunities, seeking or return to a location that provides a combination or balance among my wants that justify my extra efforts.
At some places I have the preception that the owner of the business or the combined efforts of owners and landlords, as in the case of a Mall for example, are focused toward inviting me into their premise and attempting to make my experience a pleasant one.
Other places are sometimes lower priced or more convenient but, well, almost hostile in their attitude and often not worth the emotional discomfort or worse for me to feel the savings are worth using them as a source.
I feel this applies to our situation with online selling because I believe eBay is showing a more general hostile attitude in the buying experience.
For another site to become a significant marketplace it will need a large number of buyers (sellers too, but they move more quickly towards any profitable opportunity).
Buyers cost money for a site to acquire.
A co-op has the potential of providing a more pleasant buying opportunity because of the overall attitude of the sellers/owners working together.
The sellers can replace much of the needed expense of attracting buyers by each individually suggesting in every email they send that present customers consider visiting the co-op site. They would also likely attract a certain amount of press coverage and free promotion that commercial sites might not receive.
A family owned resturant can often, but not always, offer a better experience than a vending machine.
There is room for both and each serves a purpose.
I'm getting tired of only putting items into and buying out of the "Great eBay" vending machine.
For profit or co-op, please, bring on some choices.
posted on June 23, 2001 09:00:10 AM
Made this post on another thread Bigger isnt always better.
Yes Ebay is Big, lots to choose from but it is so Driven due to its share holders to make more every quarter and every year that it is getting so costly That The people who make it what it is little guys willing to take a chance with a few dollars and A hobby are really at the point of cost over lapping any return.
This is not Just Ebay alone but its The other companies realated to selling as well now Chargeing more and more to sellers.
Evryone wanting a fee an FVF monthly or yearly payment right down to some of these companies chargeing .10 to .25 to host a single pitures.
We have even seen one company that offered Auction manageing software buy it at a price suddenly start chargeing sellers who paid for and own the software in there computer Attemp to charge for every listing made and launch to ebay.
The presure is so tuff this company feels it must Double dip paying to launch Item from software you already bought the rights to use.
Ebay and the other secondary companies look big now but they are going to fall back very fast as average people just cant afford these tactics and costs to keep going.
Soon the Conveinace and simple cost saveing of online auctions will be gone prices will be higher then just takeing the time to go out and find what you want in antique stores and so on again.
Yes A co-op is a business and yes auction sites are businesses too but they are far less costly then The online auction model we now have would have us believe.
These Web servers and auction sites are nothing more then programs in a computer hooked to a 24/7 internet connection.
all online sellers have computers they already house in there own homes the software is out there FREE to be had Internet users pay to be connected to the Internet any how.
If Small groups of sellers get togeather and build Small auction sites that all work co-operatively togeather.
this can be all self funded at a very low costs per site.
The figures I have right now show that would be no more then $40 to $60 per site depending on if they use rented web space or there own computer for there servers.
Each site can Have its own Term and conditions for listing and selling put togeather by its own group of users.
Yes if there is thousands of small sites the cost of this would be thousands of dollars over all but each group or person investing in there own computer or site no one asking for funds to bank roll a larger business.
posted on June 23, 2001 12:43:48 PM
Do buyers understand enough about the operation of a site to respond intelligently?
Let's say most people respond they just want low start bids. Many Sellers may have a problem with that, especially on a weak traffic site. The quality of items drops and/or service qualitydrops.
If the buyers say they want mainly a good selection, good selection means lower prices for sellers, and again, sellers may have a problem with that which results in the same as above.
If Buyers want good, ethical sellers, then the site needs to search out the best sellers, and enforce various procedures and rules. That would limit selection and drive up prices.
In other words, buyers don't understand the tradeoff when they want certain criteria met.
posted on June 23, 2001 05:06:57 PM
Hi, Quickdraw. That's true. But I think bidders know they can't have the best of everything. It's fair to ask what are bidders' priorities. For example, "would you prefer more support, or lower prices? That is really information site organizers can use to make financial allotments.
I think one of the big issues buying online is trust and safety. I'd be curious to know what can be done to reassure buyers their transactions are safe. What makes bidders feel safer?
posted on June 23, 2001 05:12:44 PM
If buyers want safety,then they should not be at auction bidding away,they should be at amzn,barnes and nobles,saks,neiman marcus,ashford.com,walmart etc.
they want the cheap thrill with a safety net,
like buying from used car salesman and romanian dealers,who else would give them a chance to act like adult crying baby??
posted on June 23, 2001 05:32:26 PM
Buyers might be more prone to visit, and more importantly revisit, niche coop sites as opposed to a coop trying to be a jack-of-all-trades, but mastering none. For example, a coop geared toward the vintage collectibles marketplace could build brand awareness and loyalty from collectible buyers and sellers alike, without the eBay hostilities, to say nothing about the press it could generate. JMHO
posted on June 23, 2001 06:48:39 PM
eSeller004-- you have hit the nail right on the head! As a niche vintage cooperative the mechandise is specialized. This is the reason I moved away from the general coop groups in February. The marketability of a specialized site is more do-able than that of another general site. Target marketing is perfect for a vintage site.
Attract the buyer and create something special about the site and their experience to make the want to return again and again is a profitable goal for all.
Having had a brick and mortar shop,I feel the same principles of service and hospitality that made it a success can be carried over to the internet world with a more intimate, niche,vintage site. Build in safety through selling standards and you have a better place for buyers to do business. And it will have them return to the site to do business again and again. We all like fairness, security, hospitality, and dependability in our online transactions
I am asking for what buyers want because I really want to know where others have failed or what they are overlooking. A buyer is a precious comodity.The site that has buyers--somone has remarked -will easily attract sellers.
A coop is built from the ground up. So why not start from day one with what will please buyers as well as sellers!
