posted on July 13, 2001 06:36:12 AM new
Hey all,
Thought I'd update you as it gets worse. I should have NOT shipped the necklace as most of you advised, but I thought it would be less headache and that the sale would turn out ok (I always tend to TRUST others too much) so now that I learned a valuable lesson here's an update and any suggestions on what my rights are, etc. are helpful.
Item was shipped Mon. Delivery confirmation and insurance. Item was shipped to an address not confirmed on paypal but one she gave me that she likes to use for USPS (since she thinks USPS can't deliver to her house...) shipped item, checked deliv. confirm on Wed and it was delivered to the addy she gave me at 1:20. She's now saying she never got it.
Ok so I know she's full of it. In the over three years I've been selling on ebay I've lost ONE book bookrate and that's it. Never anything else - never even broke anything! That's an excellent track record and I've done over 1000 transactions am sure.
So now what? I emailed paypal and got a list of buyer/seller rights. I am not verified so therefore am not protected, however neither is she. Second, I didn't ship to a confirmed addy so not protected, but she didn't list one so neither is she.
Ebay's safeharbor is also helping me with her feedback threats.
So what is my course of action. She keeps emailing me, which is harassing IMO. She is IGNORING anything I tell her ie that del. confirm says it was delivered. She's saying I must have had the wrong addy! HELLO! She's checked it herself as I gave her the confirm and it lists the addy which matches mine!
So anyway, thoughts? Thanks again for your time. This kind of thing makes me want to quit ebay.
posted on July 13, 2001 07:43:20 AM new
If it were me I would post feedback stating the facts and forget about her. Go on to the next one. There are many many more honest and nice people out there , thank God, than this one. State the facts in your feedback and move on.
posted on July 13, 2001 07:45:58 AM new
How much did you insure it for? Anything over $50.00 someone would have had to sign for.
Somewhere on these boards someone said if delivery confirmation was used and showed delivery the post office would not consider that lost and make good on the insurance.
So the first thing I would do is ask the PO if they will honor an insurance claim. (After their 30 day wait.) If so, then the answer to her is she is going to have to wait 30 days.
Since she did not want USPS and you shipped it that way, of course she is saying she never got it. The least you should have done here was had someone sign for it.
Worst scenerio is a refund is on the way to her, and you will be out both.
~Not barrelracer on ebay, don't pick on them!~
posted on July 13, 2001 08:00:44 AM new
I insured for $50 as item ended at $24.99- she wanted insurance for $200 but only paid for insurance up to $50.00.
Yes, I shipped USPS which my terms state. I offered fed ex to her she didn't want that, only UPS which is hard for me with working full time.
She gave me an addy to use USPS - I used it.
Why would I refund if she has the item? Can't my insurance cover if USPS says it will? I realize with DC it may not since says received.
I just want to not be out $$$ and have her have the item - that's really not fair.
I thought DC meant you got a signature- my error.
Lauren
[ edited by nightbird84 on Jul 13, 2001 08:01 AM ]
posted on July 13, 2001 08:08:45 AM new
If you used USPS insurance, there will be no problem here. Just tell her that you and she have to file for the insurance loss. When you explain that the USPS requires a signed affidavit from her saying that she never received the package, AND THAT IF SHE IS UNTRUTHFUL ON THE FORM SHE HAS COMMITTED A FELONY, I'll bet you ten to one that the package very quickly shows up.
My policy on lost packages is to refund, but only after they sign the affidavit saying the package never arrived. I think it's something of an amazing coincidence that those packages get delivered within 24 hours of my explaining to people my refund policy on lost packages and how filing a false affidavit is a felony. I never try to make the distinction between the ones who suddenly "saw the light" and became honest, or the ones who were honest all along, but I'll be darned if that explanation e-mail doesn't make the USPS hurry up with those packages!
posted on July 13, 2001 08:15:29 AM new
Let her know that Delivery confirmation notes it has been delivered (in fact give her the USPS site & the DC # & let her see for herself).
It's entirely possible that the package is sitting waiting for her at her local post office and she'll need to pick it up there.If she is honest, she'll be happy. If she's dishonest & trying to pull a fast one on you, she'll be unhappy but it will still probably result in an email saying something like "it *did* arrive but hubby sat it on a shelf & didn't tell me!"
posted on July 13, 2001 08:29:03 AM new
she's had the DC # from the beginning. She is ignoring that it says it was delieverd - I feel like I am talking to a nutcase to be honest.
Am going to tell her about the singing the affidavit if she doesn't have it and waiting 30 days for insurance. thanks for that advice.
What a nut! I just want to be sure she can't sue me or try to get her $$$ back via paypal. If I change my paypal email will that help me?
posted on July 13, 2001 08:31:21 AM new
> "The least you should have done here was had someone sign for it. "
I have a feeling no matter what this seller did would keep her from pulling a fast one.
She would say "Yes, I got the package" but then would also say "There was nothing in the package..someone stole it or it fell out"
It wouldn't surpise me in the least.
Basically--first protect yourself by not shipping to a different address than PayPal or other company (e.g. BidPay) tells you to. If you do, then you gotta be willing to face the consequences.
I only ship to a different address than is on the check/bidpay order IF it's a low $ value item and shipping that I can afford to eat if I'm scammed. That currently averages about $10 combined for both. Anything over that goes only to a verified address. I don't take PayPal.
posted on July 13, 2001 08:44:13 AM newPlease do not refund her!!
If I were you, this is what I would do:
Go to your post office and get an insurance claim form. Fill out your part, complete with a copy of the ended auction page showing the final bid price and a copy of the DC receipt. Mail that to her return receipt requested and let her file for the insurance claim. Check off the box that says the insurance is to be paid to her. Let her complete the rest of the form and file it. I would also clean out my PayPal account in case she tries a chargeback through her CC (you can check to see if she paid with her PayPal balance or with a CC----I think she's SOL if she paid with her balance.)
posted on July 13, 2001 08:57:09 AM new
Her original funds were from a CC but when I sent it back to her - and she then sent it back to me again it came from paypal source.
Also says her addy is not confirmed so she's not protected under buyer/seller part.
I will not refund her and will take steps mentioned here!
posted on July 13, 2001 09:08:41 AM new
I am thinking that if you have her fill out an insurance claim form that it might be best for you to file it. Start the form, send it to her to fill out her part and then send it back so you can sign it and file it yourself. If she files it, I am sure she will try something funny! When filing, CYA and make a copy of everything that gets filed and ask for a receipt from the PO.
posted on July 13, 2001 10:50:06 AM new
Just called PO.
After 30 days I file for insurance (not her). I will receive refund after they RESEACH item. I will then refund her the $$ for the ebay item.
So in meantime if she continues to harrass, boss me, etc. am going to ignore her. According to paypal's rules she can't do a thing since she didn't give me a verified addy!
Am going to send her all this info with her original emai with shipping addy, deliv. confirmation email with addy and time it was received certified mail and let it be at that.
The thing that you are not catching here though, just like in your last thread about this is her threat of a chargeback, verified or not. She has that right. Paypal is known for leaping before they look and you could see your account frozen even though you have insured the item through USPS.
On that note, you can fill out the paperwork on your end and check the box that has the money being reimbursed to her. Just do not send the original insurance slip! Only a photo copy. Leave the value blank and let her prove value as that the highest she can claim is $50 and you never know, maybe she can so DON'T fill in that number for her. Once you send it(noting the DC purchased also)you are done. But again, as long as she doesn't try to double whammy you at paypal!!!
The paypal issue is very much what these thread members were trying to warn you of in the last thread and so I do so again also! Wanted to in the last thread but it got locked before I could.
posted on July 13, 2001 12:07:37 PM new
am not clear why paypal can freeze my account if she didn't give me a confirmed addy - I got their buyer/seller rights for a chargeback and you have to meet that standard.
Can I get rid of my email on paypal and change it - would she then not be able to or does that matter? What if I close and reopen a paypal account?
So this is where I am confused...can you explain more?
Oh no, would never send her the original stuff - and thank you.
Lauren
posted on July 13, 2001 12:33:25 PM new
I emailed her what I said I was going to tell her and got this back - she's driving me NUTS! She seems to ignore (purposely) all I say.
What more proof does she want than the fact that the confirrmation # matches the addy she gave me - does she think I made that up? This is beyond ridiculous now.
Here's her note:
Lauren-
As requested, please provide a copy of the signed delivery receipt.
Assertions are not evidence of delivery.
Thank you.
######
I am ready to "scream" - she'd gotten the DC #, she's seen it's been delivered, she's ignoring me. She knows darn well nothing was signed for but she keeps repeating that - is that the way she's going to get me, saying cause it was not signed for? I mean it was delivered. Woman is a nutcase.
I explained to her to wait 30 days and I will file for insurance but she's ignoring that too. I want this to be over.
posted on July 13, 2001 12:43:30 PM new
Normally I would not say "ignore a customer" but in this case I think you have gone above and beyond what can be expected. Just delete her emails. After 30 days you can contact her to see if it arrived and at that point file the form through your post office. Don't give her ANY more attention than you absolutely have to. She is driving you batty and she is probably the type who enjoys that.
I'm sorry you have to deal with her at all-- minimize contact and save youself a headache! :0)
posted on July 13, 2001 12:48:45 PM new
The first time she sent payment was from CC funds. She may try to do a chargeback through her CC company. If she does, PayPal may freeze your account. (I would not necessarily rely on PayPal's policy; I have seen too many sellers complain on these boards that their accounts were frozen during disputes. Best to be on the safe side.)
I would go ahead and send her a copy (or a scan, if you have a scanner) of your DC receipt and a printout from the USPS website detailing when delivery was made. I would tell her to take those 2 things to her local post office or show them to her mail carrier and inquire whether s/he recalls who received the package. If she persists, just tell her that she will have to wait the 30 days for the missing package claim as you have no intention of refunding something for which you have legal proof of delivery.
posted on July 13, 2001 12:49:17 PM new
Lauren,
I lost track of what you are going to do, but at this point this lady is just harassing.
Get an email typed up, something like:
"To claim insurance we must wait 30 days, I will forward you the paperwork at that time to submit the claim" or something like that.
Reply to all her emails with that. Stop giving her new ammunition in her emails. Reply to all her emails with the same standard reply. Maybe she will tire of this.
posted on July 13, 2001 01:01:22 PM new
how do I protect myself on the paypal area for chargeback? What if I don't keep $$$ in my account, can they get it thru my debit card that's on ebay?
Debbielennon - thanks for good advice and for everyone's advice. Am going to ignore her emails after I state about insurance that barrel racer suggsted (to update I told her that I have DC and she's seen it but she's still insiting that's not proof and wants signaure - told her that if she doens't have item in 30 days I will file for loss thru insurance and refund her $$$ and to kee me updated ) she keeps replying back "proof of DC is not proof of signature" or whatever she keeps saying.
Anyway, I am going to send her the items CERTIFIED mail next week - copies of it all.
posted on July 13, 2001 01:02:15 PM new
I would probably send her one final e-mail for the time being, re-stating that the post office requires that insurance claims be filed after 30 days, which you will do immediately as soon as the 30 days are up. Tell her there is nothing that can be done until the required 30 days are up, and invite her to verify this with her local post office if she likes.
If it was me, I might (in a non-inflamatory way) say something like once the insurance claim is filed, she'll have to sign an official government form saying the package did NOT arrive. That might cause her to "remember" that the package did arrival after all. She might be lying to you, but she might be less likely to fib on an official government form.
And if she e-mails you repeatedly after that, I'd re-send that same e-mail every time until the 30 days are up. (LOL!)
I'm wondering if PayPal will consider the actual payment to have been made on the first attempt (credit card, which the seller sent back), or on the second attempt (from existing PayPal funds). I'm thinking that will make a difference in the outcome.
PayPal used to consider Delivery Confirmation as proof of shipping -- has this been changed? (I haven't used them in a very long time.) In my opinion, the seller has much more "proof" than the buyer does, especially if PayPal considers the actual payment to have come from the buyer's existing funds.
Just in case, if you have any significant funds in your PayPal account, (if it were me personally) I would take the money out of my account immediately, and would sign a form at my bank saying that PayPal is not authorized to withdraw any funds (if you used direct deposit). That way, if she DOES manage to get anywhere with this, your money will at least be secure.
Whatever you do, don't let the original Delivery Confirmation receipt and insurance receipt out of your sight. If she wants them, send her a COPY. And keep good records of EVERYTHING (print out the auction listing, the EOA from eBay, all e-mails, etc.).
THANK YOU!!!! You made me feel so much better - there is another thread about DC and it says paypal does require that. I do believe I am covered then. I didn't know about that.
i like the idea of going to my bank too. Was thinking i could change my email addy or close and reopen account but may not work.
I would think it would be the second round of funds right? She can't claim BOTH can she - as she sent it 2x but I sent it back to her once so I can do the same, right?
Thanks again. Am going to write her with that info and say it over and over like she does.
posted on July 13, 2001 01:09:49 PM new
Lauren,
One more thing, then I'm off.
I really would just keep on replying to her emails with exactly the same email.
I would not ignore her emails because she could take it a step further with phone calls or something new to harass you.
I wouldn't give her the feeling you are ignoring her, but by sending her the same email wording over and over it will show you are no longer spending any time on her "problem". And the advice about saying she has to state about not receiving the item is very good too.
posted on July 13, 2001 01:19:57 PM new
What she's wanting, it appears, is her money back -- one way or another -- AND the jewelry!
She tried to get you to scam the USPS with inflated insurance. You wouldn't do that. Now she's claiming that she didn't get the item and is hoping to wear you down. If she can convince you the item didn't arrive (in her mind) then she can get you to give her her money back.
Not to belittle the point, but you showed her before shipping that you were a pushover (no offense meant) and that she won (got it done her way). Now she's going to harrass you to no end to wear you down even MORE and try to win again.
I would do as suggested. Create a master reply telling her that you are looking into this matter with the USPS and that the required 30 days (specify the date) must pass. Then for every email she sends you, fire away the same email.
If you write it once and keep using it, you won't add in your frustration as she keeps badgering you.
Keep all her emails in a file somewhere -- PRINT THEM OUT WITH HEADERS -- and keep them electronic as well.
If you want to spend a couple of bucks. Send her a copy of the email in letter format. Use DC on the letter *AND* use Return Receipt requested. Send to the EXACT SAME ADDRESS the package went to. This will have the added benefit of showing that the route between your house and hers is open and mail DOES get to her address. I suggest using DC as well because the online results of that DC should match the original one (except for date).
posted on July 13, 2001 01:41:37 PM new
Exactly! I am going to email her the same thing over and over. she does it to me. I have better things to do than keep letting her bug me and take up my time.
posted on July 13, 2001 01:45:42 PM new
I agree she knows she can get me and that's my fault for "giving in" thinking it would solve problem and she was only upset over shipping - I NEVER thought this would occur. So I do blame myself for selling her the item in the first place.
Ok now if I send the paperwork to addy package went to that's not HER addy - she still claims she can't get mail. So is that still ok? I am going to do DC and Receipt, I want a signare this time although she'll say she didn't get it either and someone else signed for it - her friend - she's going to do something to say she didn't get it – watch!
I am going to reply to her email with the same email each time too.
I have yet to neg her but will do that this weekend to warn others. I know she'll be negging me anyway.
