I bought a stuffed animal last month in a dutch auction. It was listed under a the ty beanies:general category.The seller used the word 'beanie' in his auction several times. I received my package and it is not a Ty Beanie. I have emailed the seller 2X explaining my disappointment and asking if there is a way to resolve the situation and have not received a response. I feel that it was misresprested.
He is a powerseller, & his feedback is 8370 positive, 159 neutrals (4 NARUS), and 182 negatives. I know that that is only 2%, but in reading them, none of them see to be from the lunatic fringe.
posted on July 13, 2001 07:41:45 PM
If you paid more than $25 you can file ebay's insurance (there's a $25 deductible). You can also file mail fraud charges with the post office.
If he used the name TY in his auction description/title you can report him under the veRo program at ebay. TY would love to talk to him.
If he didn't use the name TY but still listed under TY and used the word Beanie, there's really nothing you can do about misrepresentation, because you should always ask questions before you bid if you have any doubts. Was there a photo?
The 182 negatives would have been enough to deter my bid. But that's
JMHO2
Edited to add
Cin131, I looked at the auction in question and no where does he say it's a TY bear. He describes it as a Ronald McDonald Charity Memorabilia Booth Million Dollar Bear. (AW this is a closed auction and relevant to her question). However, he probably listed it under that category because isn't that the only beanie catagorie there is? So many different people make the beanies today, they're not all to be assumed as TY. Afraid I don't see this as misrepresentation. You really should have asked to be sure before you bid, especially when you didn't see the TY tag. Sorry and good luck to you.
[ edited by JMHO2 on Jul 13, 2001 07:55 PM ]
posted on July 13, 2001 07:55:00 PMIf he didn't use the name TY but still listed under TY and used the word Beanie, there's really nothing you can do about misrepresentation,
I'm not so sure that's a valid conclusion. From ty's website:
TY INC. INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY and TY, Ty Heart Logo, BEANIE BABIES, THE BEANIE BABIES COLLECTION, THE BEANIE BUDDIES COLLECTION, THE PILLOW PALS COLLECTION, TY COLLECTIBLES, TY COLLECTIBLES LOGO, TYLON, TY-RIFFIC, CHOCOLATE, CHOPS, CLUBBY, GOLDIE, LIZZY, PATTI, SAMMY, SNORT, SPEEDY, STRUT, HALLOWEENIE BEANIES and JINGLE BEANIES are registered trademarks of Ty Inc. Ty Inc. also owns the following trademarks: BEANIE, BEANIES, E-BEANIES, E-BEANIE BABY, E-BEANIE BABIES, BEANIE BABIES OFFICIAL CLUB, BBOC, BBOT, AUTHENTIC TY PRODUCT, THE ATTIC TREASURES COLLECTION, ATTIC TREASURES, AUTHENTIC TY PRODUCT and Design, ORIGINAL BEANIE BABY, ORIGINAL BEANIE BUDDY, TEENIE BEANIE BABIES, TEENIE BEANIES, THE HEART OF COLLECTIBLES, TY 2000, TY 2000 Heart Logo, BEANIE KIDS, THE BEANIE KIDS COLLECTION, TY CLASSIC, TY GEAR, TY TRADE, TY.COM, the "look and feel" of this website, and most of the names of the individual Ty plush items.
Since ty owns the trademark for "beanie", I would think that a seller using that word to describe his item would be guilty of misrepresentation if the item was not actually the real thing.
posted on July 13, 2001 08:00:24 PM
Mr PH, there are lots of beanie mfgrs now. I went shopping the other day and saw at least 5 different "beanies" made by 5 different mfgrs each one calling them "beanies" in their advertising. The labels didn't say anything, but the ads did.
The way he described the bear was not as a Ty bear. If he used the word beanie, and if that's an infringement, maybe she has a case. But for $39, I would think she got a deal on a rare 2000 million dollar bear from McDonalds. They're limited editions. I think she expected a TY label, didn't get it and is upset.
Ask questions before you bid! Really stops all this confusion.
Under the category of Bean Bag Plush, there are 15 sub categories, one of which is general, and 6 of which start with the word 'ty'. The fact that it was listed under ty beanies, in combination with his free usage of the copyrighted lingo, led me to believe it was a ty beanie.
Hindsight being 20/20 yes, I should have asked questions, but most sellers are trustworthy, and with his high rating, I had no reason to doubt him. (That is the last time I trust a high rating; his negatives follow a pattern).
Thank You for that information Mr. Potatohead. I was wondering about that.
I do not have any experience with copyright infringement and misrepresentation issues. Any suggestions on what my next steps would be, if any, would be appreciated. My goal is just to get my money back.
posted on July 13, 2001 08:22:19 PM
Ty Warner does own the trademark name "beanie"
The seller listed in the right catagory, it covers bean bag, plush, general & beanies & he did not say it was a beanie.
Cin, I don't think you will have a problem selling your bear on eBay if you don't want to keep it. Just don't say it's a beanie.
What I am trying to say is if you are going to list a stuffed toy, that's the catagory you would use as it covers many different kinds as well as beanies.
posted on July 13, 2001 08:24:21 PM
If you both feel it's copyright infringement, report it to ebay. There's a veRo rights section at the site map.
Cin131, I always read the negatives. I know a lot of high fb users (over 5,000 fb) who have no negs. When they start getting up there - especially over 100, I don't bid. But that's something we all have to learn. It's hard to imagine that a power seller would rip someone off, but they do.
I don't sell Beanies or buy them for that matter, so I've never looked at the category.
I was just going by what his auction said, what I've seen. Guess I'm all wet on all counts. Sorry for your problem and I hope you get your money back.
posted on July 13, 2001 08:26:23 PM
mcjane, he called it a beanie several times. Okay, one time he said beane, but the rest he said beanie/s. If TY owns the trademarked name of beanie, then he's in bad shape. Listing under the category is okay, it's the use of the name (so I'm told )
He sold it under ty beanies:general. NOT bean bag plush:general. It was listed in the TY beanies section and is NOT a ty. There are sections for the NON TY beanies. This was NOT in it. Also, he does refer to it as one of the 'hottest and rarest beanies ever'. 'cute high quality beanie' 'must have for all beanie and mcdonald collectors' & 'the most limited mcdonald's beanie ever'
I know some people are going to think I splitting hairs. I thought I was buying something other than what I got, and I want my money back, that's all.
It's easy to say ask questions, but if I had reason to doubt, I would have either asked or not bid.
posted on July 13, 2001 08:36:26 PM
I disagree that you're splitting hairs.
I don't think "beanie" has become so common yet to have lost its trademark and simply become a household term.
Like coke. "Do you want a coke or something?" "Sure." "What kind do you want?" "A Dr. Pepper sounds good." Of course, that's not going to make sense if you live up north and say "pop"
Anyway, it was listed as a "beanie" in the "Ty" category. He cheated -- or made an honest mistake. Regardless what he sent is not a "Beanie" -- Had he said "bean bag doll", that would be different.
I live in the south and we call everything Coke. The waitress always asks what kind of Coke we want: sprite, pepsi, dr. pepper, minutemaid, etc. It's all the same to us.
posted on July 13, 2001 08:59:09 PM
Cin & JMHO, I stand corrected. I just went back & looked again. You are both right & I am wrong. He certainly did list it wrong & DID call it a beanie. It is absolutely true that Ty owns & protects that name.
I would email the seller & ask for a full refund including postage & tell him if he refuses you will write to Ty Warner. He doesn't like anyone to steal that name. also eBay doesn't like spammers.
posted on July 14, 2001 06:40:05 AM
Thanks so much for the information so far. I really appreciate all of it. This is the email that I've composed, I havent sent it yet. I am wondering what you guys think; anything I should add or take out.
I know that in most situations I would send the merchandise back before gettng my money, and I don't argue with that, but when I looked at this guys feedback, his 182 negs have some consistency, and one of the things that pops up frequently is that the item was never sent, he got the $$$ and the buyer got nothing. Not something I want to happen.
posted on July 14, 2001 08:23:11 AM
Jeez, you can tell I hadn't had my coffee yet, Below is the email that I composed:
Hi,
I'm hoping that these emails are getting through. I recieved my bear, but am very disappointed. You had it listed under the TY beanies sections, and used the word beanies in your description several times. Being as the word BEANIE is copyrighted by TY, and that ebay has rules against keyword spamming, I figured that it was a Ty Beanie. It isn't. I am EXTREMELY dissatisfied with my purchase, and I want a FULL refund, including shipping both ways; which would total $47.00. As with MY auctions, I only accept money orders or cash.
Seeing your track-record is not completely trustworthy, I will send the bear back when I receive my refund.
There are other avenues of recourse that I could take (and will, if necessary), I 'm hoping that we can both walk away from this transaction happy and unscathed.
posted on July 14, 2001 08:33:35 AM
I think you're out of luck there -- you are going to have to send the beanie back FIRST before expecting a refund.
His track record is the same now as it was when you bid. I'm not sure why anyone would choose to transact with a seller who had that many negs, powerseller or not. Since it wasn't relevant to you then, you can't really bring it up now with any credibility.
posted on July 14, 2001 12:42:44 PM
Cin, first try a non threatening email & see how the seller replies. I would mention that because he used the term "beanie" you thought it was a Ty beanie because that term is protected and you have no interest in anything else.
If you don't like his reply then tell him what you plan to do and make your demands.
I agree, he probably will not refund unless you return the one you bought. As for returning postage, with his feedback, I doubt it. Whats one more neg to him.
It's interesting to see that he has another dutch (24 @ 34.00 )about to end in a few hours for the same "rare" bear.
Thanks for your input, after reading my previous draft, it did come across a little too assertive. This is the one I'm probably going to send:
Hi,
I'm hoping that these emails are getting through. I recieved my bear, but am very disappointed. You had it listed under the TY beanies section, and used the word beanies in your description several times. because you used the term "beanie" I thought it was a Ty beanie (because that term is protected by Ty) and I have no interest in other stuffed bears. I would like to arange a FULL refund, including shipping, which was $43.00. In looking at your feedback, I must add that I will return the bear when I get my refund. I know that this is not usually done, and under different cricumstances, I would never even think of this.
Thank You,
Cindy Garman
cin131
I am tempted to report him to vero right now, and blow his auction, but I will wait until I get a response. ALthough, even if this does work out (I have my doubts) I hate to see him keep doing this. Oh well, I'll cross that bridge, when and if I get there.
In looking at your feedback, I must add that I will return the bear when I get my refund. I know that this is not usually done, and under different cricumstances, I would never even think of this
Please reconsider...
In the B/M world, no vendor I've ever had contact with will refund prior to receipt of the goods...it just doesn't happen IME...
Personally, I'd laugh at a customer who wanted their money back before bringing back a supposedly defective hydraulic cylinder to my business...
Instead, try expressing your desire for a genuine TY bear and noting, since the seller advertised the bear as "'hottest and rarest beanies ever'. 'cute high quality beanie' 'must have for all beanie and mcdonald collectors' & 'the most limited mcdonald's beanie ever' ", they could easily resell this item to someone who would give it a good home...
Honey first, then stingers...
If seller makes no effort to satisfy you, then leave a factual negative and pursue the other remedies you mentioned, and, if you truly don't want the bear, list and resell it yourself, correctly described. You may lose money on it but IMO it'll be another day at eBay U....
Hope your bear finds a loving home....they need that, you know
I agree with you. I would never expect to get a refund without my item. With this seller I feel 99% certain that if I return the bear I will not see the money. Then I'm sunk. I'd have no merchandise and no $$$. He has too many negs that center around the phrase "no merchandise, no money." I didn't read them because with 6,000+ and the 'powerseller' logo, I felt somewhat secure. Another lesson from 'EBAY U'
posted on July 14, 2001 05:02:05 PM
One other point. Powerseller rules require that negative feedback be LESS THAN 2%. The numbers you cited show this person's feedback is north of 2% and therefore in violation of powerseller rules (although I'm not sure of the relevant timeframe). If I were you, I'd call this to Safe Harbor's attention, in addition to whatever else you're doing -- and I wouldn't bring this action to your seller's attention.
It seems to me this seller either (1) just doesn't care or (2) is running too many auctions with too little personnel to actually do it right.
And final lesson: don't buy from someone with that many "real" negative feedbacks -- but I'm sure you've already learned that one.
posted on July 14, 2001 05:24:50 PM
Many of the negatives that this seller has received mention poor communication so I hope you get a response to your e-mail.
This seller listed other "beanies" in the Ty category that were not Ty Beanies and got a "misrepresented" feedback comment.
Sorry this happened to you and good luck.
How did you pay?
spelling and clarity
[ edited by kerryann on Jul 14, 2001 05:26 PM ]
I did a search on his current auctions, and was surprised at what I found. He currently has 28 auctions that are either in the 'wrong' category, and/or misuse the word 'beanie' in it. hmmmmm
I sent my email & we'll see if I get a response. He has until I have my next step figured out.
I do want you all to know that I am, by nature, not a witch. I just do not like to see people continually break the rules (and the laws), at the expense of others, and get away with it.
posted on July 15, 2001 10:22:28 AM
This is the email that I sent him:
I'm hoping that these emails are getting through. I recieved my bear, but am very disappointed. You had it listed under the TY beanies section, and used the word beanies in your description several times. because the way you used the term "beanie" I thought it was a Ty beanie (because that term is protected by Ty) and I have no interest in other stuffed bears. I would like to arange a FULL refund, including shipping, which was $43.00. In looking at your feedback, I must add that I will return the bear when I get my refund. I know that this is not usually done, and under different cricumstances, this would not even be an issue.
Well I got two responses today. First he told me I was crazy to expect the refund witht out the bear, which, in editing and re-editing, I admit, I forgot to cut that part out. I replied saying, fine, I will return the bear if you will agree to refund my money.
The second response was:
I have fowarded this threat to EBAY and will gladly exchange negative
feedback with you. You are why EBAY has become such a bad place to be.
Now, first off, I didn't read that email as a threat. I tried very hard to write a non-threatening email. Secondly, if the stuff that I wrote is true, would he really forward it to ebay?
But, on a positive note, you did get a response, which IIRC was a problem for some of the other buyers..
Send eBay your threat? Empty threat on the seller's part IMO...
Although you stretched custom a bit with the pre-return refund request, I saw nothing threatening in your e-mail...and I doubt SH would either...
If you know some young child who would enjoy this bear, I feel personally that it would be better off in their loving hands than to go back to this seller....
As you said, your instincts tell you he/she would likely end up with the bear and your money...
I am wondering about that too. Even if I don't send the bear back, should I just completely walk away, or should I notify ebay and Ty? That is my biggest dilemma. I really don't like scammers.
Please give me your input, as I will be contemplating my next move.
If you feel strongly about this deception, you could provide a copy of the auction and the post-sale communications to SH, Ty, and McDonalds's corporate, since their name was also prominently displayed and a highly respected charitable wing of their organization was involved in the bear's original production and sale...
Personally, I wouldn't have any more contatct with the seller....I would be interested what their response is to your second offer, though...
We have a little Steiff on the bed in our guest bedroom for when friends/family come over for the children to sleep with and I now think about your bear whenever I walk by....hopefully yours has found a good home now...
posted on July 15, 2001 01:03:17 PM
It's gonna sound harsh, but I think you blew your chance at a refund by saying you expected a refund before you returned the bear. You didn't give the seller an out and now s/he's on the defensive.
You could again request a refund. You could also use the Mail this Auction to a Friend feature to send a few of his auctions to Ty and SafeHarbor.
It sounds like the seller is expecting to simply exchange negs and has no intention of doing anything else.
posted on July 15, 2001 01:10:01 PM
I emailed him back and said that I would go with it his way, send me the address to send the bear back, but haven't heard back, and I probably won't. I knew that that wouldn't work, and I meant to delete it, Oh well.
To send the auctions to safeharbor, what is the address, and do I just put the offense in the comment line?
posted on July 15, 2001 01:51:39 PM
I haven't had any problems to report to SH but found this page which comes close to describing your situation...
Is this the same as what you found?
Then, I guess it's cut and paste and reference the auction....you might consider keeping the intial report simple and to the point so they don't have to wade through a bunch of e-mail text, letting them know you have further information if they require it...
Maybe some others here who have more experience with SH will offer you some advice...
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