posted on July 14, 2001 02:20:13 AM
I bought a British tape, I have a vcr system that can play British tape. i bought a British tape from this UK seller, recieved the tape, and the movie tape was in the middle of the tape. Usually that is NOT a good sign. So I played it, and surely enough it was damaged. So I emailed her, asking politely for a refund or a replacement, and this is WHAT I get..
-----
hi the tape was not bought from a shop it is from our collection the video is pal and not nstc so please check your video will play pal vhs format videos, this video was rewound but i fast foward it to check it before it was sent and it played perfect on our english pal vcr, this video was on the pal video site on ebay when you bid on it, most new videos do play both english /pal & nstc/ american . so if this video is not conpatable
send it back and we will refund you the price of the video which amounts to $6 for your mistake many thanks cathy.///////
-----
She blamed it on ME, when I DO have a player that can play British Tapes. I emailed her, pointing the fact I DO have a PAL machine, so thats NOT the reason why the video is bad. Its bad because it must have went through a bad machine. I asked for a refund of not only the tape, but for return postage AND the postage for the item, and if this matter isn't resolved I will contact safeharbour and or sqaure trade. And this is what I get..
-----
learn to spell/you sound like you are about to have a heartattack/in all the
transactions i have dealt with youare the only moaner/ feal free to bad mouth
me i will enjoy leaving feedback on you/dont bid on my site
-----
(by the way I used spell check, so not sure what she is talking about, note she CANT spell) Well I guess I should contact safeharbour or sqaure trade (like that is going to do any good), but I WANT to leave her a bad feedback. I mean being ripped off is so wrong! Obviously she is waiting so she can retaliate.
I have a perfect feedback record and hate to see it destroyed by this con artist. Any advice?
posted on July 14, 2001 03:57:36 AM
IMHO, you put the seller on the defensive in your second email by threatening to notify safeharbour and square trade. She/he was offering some type of compensation so you could have worked from there until you were both satisfied.
Good Luck. You may have to just walk away from this one.
posted on July 14, 2001 05:08:45 AM
I agree with rarriffle. You put her on the defensive by threatening her. I don't know the difference in tapes, but I think you should have taken her offer. Most sellers don't refund postage, especially both ways. Ever get a refund on postage from a catalog company? Never happens.
P.S. "square" is spelled like this, not "sqaure" as you spelled it twice.
[ edited by JMHO2 on Jul 14, 2001 05:10 AM ]
posted on July 14, 2001 08:28:46 AM
If a buyer thinks so little of me and my attempts to negotiate by threatening me with all kinds of feedback, lawsuits, square trade and the like, I simply stop negotiating. That's not an attempt to negotiate anything, it's a clear statement to me that "I'll have MY way, OR ELSE". No negotiation is possible....
I'll gladly take the bad feedback comment in these cases, as these buyers almost always sound like self serving idiots when they leave a comment.
Sorry dude, IMHO, you screwed up. Threatening consequences is *NOT* negotiating a settlement. Walk away, or live with the bad feedback.
FWIW, every time I've been able to prove a buyer received a package and claims not to have received it (DC or signature), they have led off demanding a refund or they would leave negative feedback. Coincidence? I don't think so, it's become a red flag for me now.
posted on July 14, 2001 01:15:09 PM
I checked my email and I didn't mention squaretrade, sorry about that. All I mention was that "please help me with this for I don't want to contact safe harbor". but I got upset was the way she kept calling me a liar in the first email she sent when I asked for a refund, when the suspicious part was before I sent the payment, I told her I can play this kind of format, and she understood, so why in the first email she sent when I asked for a refund she kept throwing her cheap shot, saying my machine doesn't work, when in my first email i said the tape didn't work on my British system? I mean, you're not supposed to throw repeat blame on buyers when he is not the one that mailed a damaged item.
Also FYI getting only the refund of the tape will be economically be unfeesable, for to ship a video tape back to England will cost 7.55, and only offering the cost of the tape which is $6.00, and not the shipping charges $6 + mailing the tape back $7.55. I believe most sellers do pay for return postage and companies also offer pre-paid postage label on returns, but this seller didnt want to when I asked for in the first email I sent her. My previous British sellers I encountered on damaged tapes just say throw the tape away,and gave me credit via paypal or took the money off another item.
So If I send the tape back and pay $7.55 shipping, and when I get my $6 back. I am out addtional $1.55 + $6 I lost from her shipping cost. Why am I the bad guy? She send the damaged item, claim in "excellent condition". The video tape is twisted, there is no way they check this tape before sending it to me. Why do you all think I am the bad guy? I bidded, I paid, and received a damaged item, and the seller only offers 1/2 refund and it cost me more than the refund to send the item to her. I wouldn't do this to one of my customers. "excellent condition" is what I bidded on, not a damaged item.
you said "Sorry dude, IMHO, you screwed up. Threatening consequences is *NOT* negotiating a settlement. Walk away, or live with the bad feedback"
Put yourself in my shoes, this UK lady mailed you a damaged $6 item (maybe intentionally), charged you $6 shipping. emailed you and blamed this whole thing on you. Then offers $6 refund if you mailed this damaged item first class $7.55. What kind of negotiating you can have with her? You already lost $6 shipping, now you have to spend $7.55 to get $6 back? She already blamed it on you after a kind first email of a damaged item. I don't think any hostage negotiator can pull this off with this seller. It's your fault she pretty much stated.
I just can believe that I was spoiling my customers in the past. I always took care of defect and everything in hopes they will shop more in my auction in the future. Now I see most sellers believe in "no shipping refund" after mailing a dead item. Not even a replacement, which was what I ask this seller. I guess I should blame my customers after I receive a kind email saying "Hello, the item is damaged, what do I do?". I guess I should blame it on there vcr even though I sold them the damaged item. ):
You aren't the bad guy...you didn't have to edit your last post to defend yourself...
I believe most sellers do pay for return postage and companies also offer pre-paid postage label on returns
Concur....having purchased over 200 videos, both adult and mainstream, over the last 18 years, I have never had a catalog seller stick me with shipping or a damaged tape...the return shipping tag was either in the box or the call tag was a toll-free phone call away...
My advice...propose the seller offer a refund of purchase price + the original outbound S/H amount with you paying the return shipping.
From your original post, it looks as though you aren't holding their feedback hostage although intimating contact with SH at this early date was probably a little out there...IMO, focus on the successful conclusion of the transaction and save those remedies as a last resort.
If necessary, leave a factual negative or neutral, depending on seller's willingness to end this satisfactorily. IMO, do this without regard to any retaliation from the seller.....they "should" have already given you positive feedback for a timely payment, if that was the case.....
In any event, good luck!
Now, what I'd give to see some of those old Benny Hill shows......
posted on July 14, 2001 02:36:03 PM
Let me clarify. It's not about being a "good" or "bad" guy, it is about NEGOTIATING. Reality - the only cards you had, you played. ( - Feedback, & complaints with ebay & square trade) I believe, with no way to prove it of course, that had YOU negotiated better, you'd have got more than $6.00 and some bad words.
I NEVER said that I thought the seller was right, personally I think she's a five letter word with a capital "B". However, my reply dealt with what I thought of YOUR reply.
IMHO, your reply wasn't any better than hers, and due to BOTH of your failure to negotiate, this transaction is over.
She has told you that she understands that the only things you can do are what you threatened and she's willing to accept it. So, what power do you have?......NONE....
But you're sure giving it a lot of power in your head. The time you spent being PISSED OFF over $13.00 is worth a lot more to me than the $13.00. I can't eat principle.
You can be right, and still be wrong. In this case, don't buy here again, leave feedback if you're willing to accept a retailitory, because you'll get one, and odds are you'll choose a better seller next time.
Although under much different circumstances, I've done some of my best negotiating (primarily with deadbeat customers) while waiting in the hall outside the courtroom in small claims actions...
It's simply amazing how far some people will go...
If I had never threatened court action against them and then carried it out, the status quo (non-payment for services) would have remained.
So, IME, consequences do have a place in negotiations but need to be expressed diplomatically. Ironking hasn't given us any reason so far why he/she should be considered an unreasonable or vindictive buyer.....unhappy, yes...
Personally, and I've sold more than a few tapes from my collection on eBay, I'd have refunded the purchase price and shipping upon receipt of the damaged tape. I still believe in giving people the benefit of the doubt, lost art that it may be...
I agree with you in principle, and as a fellow seller, I understand just how far some buyers will go to get their way. Some use reasonable means, some do not.
In this case, we've probably got a clash in terms of expectation.
As a seller, I'd have refunded the tape, no questions asked. I'd have also negotiated the shipping charges from the customer. In all fairness to this seller, we don't know what the terms were, what condition was described, or what this buyers emails showed to her. We have ONE side of the story. I approached that transaction from that perspective.
While I feel Ironking may have gotten a somewhat raw deal, I also don't think he even looked over the other side of the fence, much less tried to understand it.
In an international transaction, all it takes in this case is ONE xray machine and that tape is toast. Seller believes it is in good shape, because her reply is then PLAUSIBLE that she checked it b4 shipping it, and buyers reply is ALSO plausible as it arrived damaged.
I'm not convinced seller tried to screw the buyer, nor am I convinced the buyer is willing to negotiate a settlement, he just wants ALL of his money back. In fairness of his point of view, I think the seller wants to keep ALL of the money as well.
Whether or not he (the buyer) should get it depends on the wording of the auction ad, the original terms discussed via email and whether or not the seller is operating a flea market out of her house or is really Nordstrom's in disguise. All these things MATTER towards resolution but are being ignored by the buyer for sure and probably the seller as well.
In your earlier example you stated your experience with a BUSINESS. This seller MAY NOT be one. She may be selling part of her collection just as if using a flea market outside her home. With proper wording in the auction ad, "buyer beware" is an acceptable form of business and buyer may not be entitled to one red cent.
In this ebay environment, it is CRITICAL to know who you are dealing with BEFORE sending the money. To me, it's obvious that did not happen in this case, and both the buyer and seller suffer for it. This (ebay) is really a UNIQUE environment for the exchange of goods and those who state things should only be ONE way really don't understand how eBay operates. It is NOT a Corporate business environment, NOR it is a flea market. It is BOTH, and it is NEITHER. It depends on who the seller is.
Caveat Emptor - LET THE BUYER BEWARE , and as retailguy adds, only let the buyer send the money AFTER he knows the specifics.
I've been disappointed several times when I've purchased something from a garage sale and have NEVER returned for a refund. I've been disappointed several times while shopping at Norstroms and have returned for a refund EVERY time. And, YES, I realize on eBay that I can't hold the goods before hand, and NO, I don't think that makes a difference.
posted on July 14, 2001 04:44:44 PMI believe most sellers do pay for return postage
Visit the Q&A board at ebay and ask those sellers if they pay return postage. You may be surprised at the answers you receive. I don't care if all the catalog stores selling tapes (adult or not) include return postage, most places don't and certainly on ebay you won't find many sellers paying postage both ways, like you want her to. I order a lot of items from the internet (not only on auction) and not one company ever offered return postage if I had to return something. Plus I paid premium s/h.
Also, now you say the tape is twisted, before you said it just didn't play on your machine. Then you said she mailed it damaged, "maybe intentionally." You threatened with safe harbor. If I was your seller, I would probably just send the lousy $6 back to you.
It's just not worth the time or effort to deal with something like this. It's your word against hers. You said damaged, she said it wasn't. No one wins here.
[ edited by JMHO2 on Jul 14, 2001 04:47 PM ]
posted on July 14, 2001 04:58:21 PMThis (ebay) is really a UNIQUE environment for the exchange of goods and those who state things should only be ONE way really don't understand how eBay operates. It is NOT a Corporate business environment, NOR it is a flea market. It is BOTH, and it is NEITHER. It depends on who the seller is.
This concept should be communicated to every eBay user (buyers and sellers alike) in such a manner that there is a halfway good chance they truly understand it before they are allowed to register.
Of course, if everybody did understand this, it would cut down considerably on the number of posts on online message boards.
Do you get the sense that this is an international transaction?....you noted that in your last post.
Further up, I started thinking maybe the buyer was UK or EU because of the way he/she spelled safeharbor and because of some of the grammar used....
Also, I believe I saw some mention of the tape being twisted upon receipt.....so many details...
Regardless, you make excellent points about eBay'ers not all being professional sellers....it often does take a keen business mind to know what the profit is and when to cut the loss loose...I've likely written off more bad debts than I've collected over the last 15 years and have given customers that hallowed benefit of the doubt more often than I care to count...
I fire the deadbeats but many of the doubtees have become good customers.
I hope we've shown Ironking there are other avenues to pursue and different ways to walk the road....and that this one experience shouldn't dampen their enthusiasm for the online auction process....
Give it your best try and move on, I always say...
posted on July 14, 2001 05:21:10 PM
camachinist writes:
Do you get the sense that this is an international transaction?....you noted that in your last post
If shipping really cost 7.55, I'd think so. He also said at one point "she's in the UK" and "I've got a PAL compatible VCR" Those spelled it out for me, anyhow.
camachinist also writes:
I hope we've shown Ironking there are other avenues to pursue and different ways to walk the road....and that this one experience shouldn't dampen their enthusiasm for the online auction process....
I think so, and we didn't have to curse each other once! <smile>
I LOVE eBay, I hope it continues, grows, and changes forever. Even with the "big" corporate people, the little guy CAN compete. He just has to think quicker, that's all.
