posted on July 14, 2001 09:02:58 PM
yep just looking at the merchant account application page and you now have to give them your social if you want to apply for the merchant account.
This company isn't a bank, it isn't a CC company, it's not FDIC insured, it's like having your monies in the bank before the depression when all the banks when belly up. PayPal could tomorrow go the way of any other dot bomb, though I would say that will be unlikely do to the amount of monies that they do make.
Ok you PayPal cheer leaders get out your Pom Poms.
Who did you rail against before you had a 'puter? Next time you're looking around on PayPal's site hit the "Close Account" link and you can move on to the next Great Satan.
Who did you rail against before you had a 'puter? Next time you're looking around on PayPal's site hit the "Close Account" link and you can move on to the next Great Satan.
Waving my Pom Poms, --bemused
Great Satan are your words not mine.
I'm a pretty easy going person, but PayPal seems to like just sticking it to their customers. The want you to leave your money on deposit with them but they don't have a bank charter, they are not FDIC insured, It's just a bunch of people saying hay give me your money and I'll move it for you.
I probably will end up closing the account if they don't care to make me a "merchant account" holder, I've done over 2700 dollars in transactions in the last 35 days, but when I've called them over the last two weeks they say I'm not a merchant. All I really want is what I've qualified for.
Again calling them Satan is your words not mine and if that is how you feel maybe you should close your account.
[ edited by airguy on Jul 14, 2001 10:50 PM ]
[ edited by airguy on Jul 14, 2001 10:52 PM ]
Apparently subtlety is lost on you. Why would PayPal like sticking it to their customers? How does that profit them? Why start a thread deriding people that don't share your perceptual bent on PayPal by calling them cheerleaders? And by breaking old news at that...
Considering that everyone you would ordinarily give your SS# too probably has a web presence, what difference does it make? Whats the fear, that PayPal wants to impersonate you to get your riches? Anybody interested enough in you to want your SS# can already get it with relative ease. Fortunately that list of people is shorter than you might imagine.
The idea that your SS# is somehow secret or magical is at this point little more than an urban legend.
posted on July 14, 2001 11:26:27 PM
Let's take it down a notch please - if you don't agree with a poster's views you can always make use of your Ignore button.
Your SSI number is the most important number you will have in your life. It is not replaceable or changeable like a credit card or a bank account number.
It has even been mentioned on television that people should NEVER give out their SSI number to anyone EVER. The program was talking about the Internet but it went on to say the only people you can give that info to with relative safety is your Bank and Government Agencies like the Drivers License Bureau or IRS.
I don't have a problem giving PayPal my Bank Account info or my Credit Card info, but it will be a cold day in hell before I will give them my SSI number.
posted on July 14, 2001 11:44:09 PMbemused
I don't know why PayPal likes sticking it to their customers, if you don't see it that way that's just you I guess. I don't know what you would call 2 rate increases in 2 weeks, they knew they were coming they should have combined them not given us one than slam us with another.
how does it profit them
It doesn't profit them, before the rate increase the only payment options I was advertising was bidbay, PayPal, and paying fast. I have a paydirect account but I haven't been advertising them in my auctions when I added PayPal again last month(I had quit when they started charging fees). Now in the last two days I have a C2it account, bidpoint, and I just set up a gateway so that I can use my own merchant account again on line. Last night on the phone with PayPal they said the guy I spoke to said that they had just come from a meeting and believe me we want your business?????
I call them cheer leaders because that's what these threads attract, there are people that have had accounts on auction watch for over a year, never made a post but crawl out of the woodwork to post how much they love PayPal. Or start a new name just so that they can spin up PayPal or play the devils advocate on these boards.
if your talking about the Social Security number being old news, well it's new to me, it's the first I heard of it was last night when I was on the phone with PayPal and then I saw it for the first time tonight.
As far as not giving out your social I agree, I actually had a problem with someone in the same town as me with the same name, seems he liked to buy stuff and never pay. I don't even want to know what it would be like to have someone steel your identify. And no I'm not afraid of PayPal doing anything directly, but the people that they sell or share info with, or the people that have access to your information.
SaraAW
thanks but it's OK I'm pretty thick skinned.
posted on July 15, 2001 12:03:34 AM
airguy:
Hey Buddy, I'm on your side - what is Paypal going to do with the social security number -that is what I'd like to know and why do they need it? Are we only dealing with emailing credit card transactions here from buyer to seller and vise versa? Or is something else happening? Any clues as to what Paypal will do with this info once they have it? If it's for verification purposes, then what or whom are they trying to verify?
I would be careful giving out any personal information. Ask yourself why they need this info. Is it for reporting purposes? If so to whom do they report? Are other companies operating in a similar capacity also doing this, or is it only paypal?
Don't be too free with personal information. Give out the least possible information you can. Your social security number is your own personal identification. Who hasn't heard of people stealing identities -it's becoming more and more prevalent, so guard your personal information like you would any other piece of personal information and be discriminatory.
posted on July 15, 2001 12:30:21 AMjumpinjacko
thanks now all I need is your full name and your DOB and I can be you. Sure I don't have that info but a person sitting at the terminal at PayPal does. The only time these people will ever see your info is if you call in for some reason and they have to pull it up. Now if I was going to steel your ID, say tap into your bank account, or call your CC company that you have on file and have a new card issued because you lost your other one. Who are you going to target? the little user or the one cent CD lady, and lets see she has a merchant account and now i have all her info.
last year a CC company was using people in a prison to run their customer service and they finely stopped when they realized that their customers were being targeted when they called in. days after they called for their balance, or this or that their accounts would be charged to the max. people on the inside were slipping CC numbers to people on the outside and having a ball on their money.
posted on July 15, 2001 06:28:05 AM
Never give out your SS number to ANYONE!!! Once it is matched up with some other very general information, you can loose your identity. PayPal may not want it, but how 'bout the 15 year old kid down the street? Free credit, free cash, works for them. 8 years ago, before computers were in every home, a friend of mine had his identity stolen....cost him his truck, his house, and on 13Dec93, he hung himself the day before they came to "remove him from the domicile". Do all you can to protect your identity.
Rick
In the begining, God created the heavens and the earth.
Although I agree in principle that one should guard their personal information, I just wanted to share an example from the real world..
Every other Tuesday, I see approximately 100-150 complete personal ID files, including SS, DOB, full name and even credit reports with address and employment history...
Who am I? Nope, not a bank employee...just a lowly volunteer board member who helps approve/disapprove loan applications at my credit union...
After doing this for nearly 8 years now, I don't even look at the personal info anymore other that when someone has a disputed credit report....
I gave this example to point out that the entire financial industry (and others), regulated or not, is made up of people and where there are people, there is the possibility for abuse of your identity.
IME, instituations use SS#'s to assist in identifying individuals where using full names may lead to mistaken identity or where the government requires them for reporting.
If protecting your personal SS# is important to you, you can always apply for a ficticious name for your business and get an EIN# from the government to identify it....especially if you're applying for business-related accounts...
I've filled out many applications and left the SS blank (harder to do now on the Net *G*) where I didn't think they needed to know that information. I also have the choice of who I do business with....
Interesting subject....just reminded me of the last time the CC fraud unit at BofA called me...when I called back, I had to verify my identity with my card number, SS# and my mothers maiden name and BD....
Guess they have the book on me, huh?
posted on July 15, 2001 07:54:41 AM
I agree that NO ONE will get my Social Security number EVER. I shred my mail too because it happened to my niece.
She had just graduated from college--certainly not affluent but someone got her info and she ended up holding the bag. Our state laws limited her liability but the amount of hassle she is still getting 5 years later is incredible.
Credit denials, refusals to cash her checks, thinly disguised reasons for not offering her a job, endless run arounds.
Why does anyone you do business with need your Social Security number? As long as you don't earn reportable income from them they DO NOT NEED IT!
posted on July 15, 2001 08:41:25 AM
PayPal does requires your social security number for:
1) the merchant fee rates
2) a money market account
3) listing in the PayPal stores
PayPal doesn't require the social security number for:
1) a personal account
2) a premier account with standard rates
3) the debit card
You can still use PayPal without giving them a social security number if you choose. I don't much care anymore. I've noticed on dot.com services that do require your social security number if you enter the wrong number it won't accept it... what does that tell you?
posted on July 15, 2001 08:51:29 AMI've noticed on dot.com services that do require your social security number if you enter the wrong number it won't accept it... what does that tell you?
hehehe
Someone's got a subscription with Equifax or Experian....?
posted on July 15, 2001 09:35:09 AM
Stolen identities - my husband had his stolen when he was in the USMC. The guy took his name, DOB, ss #, and even his fingerprints. (Back in the 60's you could have your fingerprints altered in Miami for a fee.)
Soon after, he (the other guy) began commiting unlawful offenses, bank robberies, rapes, impersonating police officers, etc. The list is long. Finally in 1994, he was executed for murder.
However, from 1968 to 1994, my husband was stopped by the police constantly for crimes. The only way he could get off was his weight. He weighed much less than this other guy. Everything else was the same. It was very scary for us. When he was executed, we thought my husband was safe.
He had to apply for a concealed weapons permit recently. The report came back from the FBI as he had a rap sheet as long as his arm. We did some investigating and found that all of these "raps" were those of the other guy, except one DUI. The "raps" started while my husband was in the USMC. He told the FBI what happened and thankfully someone believed him enough to clear his name. He got his permit and hopefully won't ever have a problem again.
It's easy to steal someone's identity. You should never give out your SS #. Some states require that you use that number for your driver's license. That's being changed too.
PayPal will never get mine. They don't need it unless they plan to send the IRS info and
if that's the case they have to give you something at the end of the year showing how much $ went through their site. But that doesn't have to be all income, it could be loans you made being repaid, personal money, etc. They're getting into big poo poo with this.
edited for clarity
[ edited by JMHO2 on Jul 15, 2001 09:36 AM ]
Must I provide a Social Security number (SSN) to any business or government agency that asks?
Having a Social Security number (SSN) just for the sake of having one is not mandatory and not all individuals are eligible for SSNs. However, specific laws require a person to provide his/her SSN for certain purposes. While we cannot give you a comprehensive list of all situations where an SSN might be required or requested, an SSN is required/requested by:
· Internal Revenue Service for tax returns and federal loans
· States for the school lunch program
· Banks for monetary transactions
· Veterans Administration as a hospital admission number
· Department of Labor for workers’ compensation
· Department of Education for Student Loans
· States to administer any tax, general public assistance, motor vehicle or drivers license law within its jurisdiction
· States for child support enforcement
· States for commercial driver’s licenses
· States for Food Stamps
· States for Medicaid
· States for Unemployment Compensation
· States for Temporary Assistance to Needy Families
· U.S. Treasury for U.S. Savings Bonds
The Privacy Act regulates the use of SSNs by government agencies. When a Federal, State, or local government agency asks an individual to disclose his or her Social Security number, the Privacy Act requires the agency to inform the person of the following: the statutory or other authority for requesting the information; whether disclosure is mandatory or voluntary; what uses will be made of the information; and the consequences, if any, of failure to provide the information.
If a business or other enterprise asks you for your SSN, you can refuse to give it. However, that may mean doing without the purchase or service for which your number was requested. For example, utility companies and other services ask for a Social Security number, but do not need it; they can do a credit check or identify the person in their records by alternative means. Giving your number is voluntary, even when you are asked for the number directly. If requested, you should ask why your number is needed, how your number will be used, what law requires you to give your number and what the consequences are if you refuse. The answers to these questions can help you decide if you want to give your Social Security number. The decision is yours.
posted on July 15, 2001 09:27:09 PM
It's not just paypal. I wouldn't give my SSN to anyone, dotcom or not, unless I have evaluated their need for that number and the security they would give to that number.
For instance, my veterinarian wanted me to put my SSN on their "Data form". I refused and she said she needed it in case I wrote her a hot check. I told her that the SSN would do her no good since the Social Security Administration has no jurisdiction over transactins in Texas. She insisted. I wrote down a known invalid number. Her "policy" was obviously just something she read in some small business owner book somewhere.
Your credit union story is a shining example of reason number 2. Camachinist being a board member of the C.U., we would assume s/he is trustworthy to a degree, but when I have a kid at the Journeys at the mall asking me my SSN to write on my check for a $20 T-Shirt, sorry, I refuse. There would be nothing stopping that kid, or any other employee of that store, from writing down all the SSNs and DOBs (commonly appearing on checks) and selling it to anyone who would pa for it.
Paypal is not a bank and does not issue me dividends or other taxable income. [edited to add: unless I have specifically asked for such an account.] Therefore, they have absolutely no reason to know my SSN, and they will not get it from me. I guess it is finally time to get myself an EIN (which I claim they do not need to know that either!) so I can get the merchant rate.
posted on July 15, 2001 09:40:29 PM
The really sad thing is with your name and date of birth (and a friend in the right job), your SS# can be had. Have an unlisted phone number that no one can get? Wrong! It just takes one phone call.
That is the scary part of life - you don't need to make yourself more vulnerable than necessary but with a little education in the proper procedures and/or the right friends, your information can be had.
A really important thing to know is NEVER give your credit card to someone if you did not institute the call. Why would your credit card company call you and ask for your number? They obviously already know it!
posted on July 15, 2001 09:44:56 PM
When I worked at a Itnternational clothing chain whose 3 letter name will be withheld so I don't fall in a "legal gap". I used to see hundreds of people SS# a week, as I had while employeed at other retailers. These applications are kept in a folder in managers office wide open for any one of a dozen people to see.
A neighbor of mine was convicted of credit card fraud when he was stealing CC statements from people mailboxes copying the information onto blank cards and charging up a storm. 4 years and almost a milion dollars later he was finally caught. No SS # needed there.
These are just a couple examples of the fact that if someone wants to get your information they can get it. If you're that concerned about Identity theft and CC fraud you better cancel all your credit cards and debit cards because as long as you have them you're wide open to fraud and theft, and while your at it put a lock on your mail box.
posted on July 15, 2001 09:50:30 PM...if someone wants to get your information they can get it. If you're that concerned about Identity theft and CC fraud you better cancel all your credit cards and debit cards because as long as you have them you're wide open to fraud and theft, and while your at it put a lock on your mail box.
Using this logic, you might as well just leave the keys in your car's ignition- if somebody wants it bad enough, they're going to take it anyway. And don't bother locking your door when you leave home, either.
posted on July 16, 2001 07:39:23 PM
In Massachusetts, your social security number is used for your driver's license number (in the past few years an option to use another number was given but few bother).
You can refuse to give it out and shred your mail, but give me your full name and DOB and I can get your SS# in five minutes unless you never had one.
Using it for that purpose is not exactly ethical, but it can be done, and there are literally millions of people across the country in the same sort of business I am in who have access to the same government databases I do for perfectly legitimate reasons.
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
