posted on August 1, 2001 01:58:56 AM
A friend came over tonight. Mentioned how she just had to have this handbag that "looks like a saddle" and she was up until 3 am last night trying to find it. She said that maybe it was by Christian Dior. I told her no problem, I would get back to her tomorrow.
Well, I searched eBay just to see what she was talking about (quickest way to find anything, right?). And found quite a few auctions for Dior bags.
NOT A SINGLE ONE OF THESE AUCTIONS IS FOR AN AUTHENTIC HANDBAG.
Well I can't say not one, because after looking at 20 or so, I got real tired. Look for yourself, search under "dior saddle bag."
Auction after auction of "no guarantee, don't assume anything, ask all questions before bidding."
And then have the nerve to have rules about deadbeats. Excuse me, you break the law and you are worried about someone cheating YOU?
For those of you who do not know, it is absolutely illegal to sell counterfeit merchandise. Specifically, it is a violation of federal law to sell a product bearing the trademark of a company when the product is not produced by that company.
It doesn't matter what kind of disclaimer you put in your auction, it's illegal.
I am so sick of this crap. I KNOW the handbag category is overflowing with counterfeit merchandise, but this is just ridiculous. I really feel like turning every one of these creeps over to safe harbor. A lot of them know what they are doing is wrong, hence the disclaimers.
The bad part about it is that this is one of the main reasons I can't introduce others to eBay. I get all kinds of requests for things but there is no way I can turn a friend or family member over to the land of "buyer be extra darn careful and practically paraniod." And most of the time, I don't even want to bother handling the sale myself.
It is amazing to me the number of people who continue to purchase on eBay, especially after getting burned once or twice with a counterfeit item.
This is one of the reasons that the big reputable companies are being recruited to sell on eBay, to alleviate these problems. I hate to be the one to say it, but I would welcome a huge luxury store selling on eBay if it meant that I could obtain authentic handbags for people who want them. It's too much trouble to weed through the auctions, click on each one, look at the feedback record.....
Excuse the rant, but this really hit a nerve tonight. It's late, I'm cranky.
I feel like turning all these creeps over to safe harbor. Said that already. Arrrggghhh!
posted on August 1, 2001 03:15:11 AM
So why don't you do a search on the designer name and the words "guaranteed authentic"? Should reduce your search drastically.
I believe the only ones who should turn these sellers in are registered Vero members, and even then, there's issues, cause they turn in people selling authentic merchandise.
There are enough netcops out there, we don't need more.
posted on August 1, 2001 06:47:14 AM
eBay WONT DO ANYTHING if an individual turns in someone for copyright abuse---No matter HOW BLATENT it is.
They will ONLY respond to the VERO owner.
I know this from first hand experience. They won't boot someone selling photocopies of copyrighted tech manuals, even when they disclose that in their listing AND they have many, many, negative feedback from upset customers. The VERO owner needs to report it, so I'd forward the info to the correct owner.
posted on August 1, 2001 10:30:12 AM
"All that is required for evil to prosper is that good men do nothing."
It is EVERYONE'S RESPONSIBILITY TO PREVENT AND/OR REPORT CRIME!!!! Get off your dead, complacent butts and report what you find. The "police" cannot do EVERYTHING without hiring more police. Is that what the rest of you want, more police. So, in order to prevent anymore of these crimes, maybe all those will buy and sell online will be required to hire and maintain a "netcop" who watches over your shoulder and insures you do not do anything illegal or unethical. And in an expansion of their duties and to prevent more crime, they will go with you everywhere and anywhere you go. Just to make sure you don't speed, jaywalk, use illegal sexual positions, leave the seat up, etc. This is the only solution to the problem of crime because to many people feel that if it doesn't affect them directly, they don't have to report it.
So become a responsible member of society. The history of the proliferation of crime is all because the people who knew about it did nothing.
posted on August 1, 2001 11:41:23 AM
The same goes with name brand sunglasses.
We're one of the few sellers who offer only authentic, first quality sunglass products and we are continuously forced to compete with these unscupulous sellers who offer Oakley, Ray-Ban, Nike, Girogio Armani etc. sunglasses for $9.99. It's quite unfair and I'm sure costs us a great deal of money in lost bids.
A general rule applies when searching for brand name products on eBay. If the price sounds too good to be true, the product is most likley not genuine. However, there are exceptions to this rule. To protect yourself, be sure to email seller's and ask them if they are willing to 100% guarantee the authenticity of the products they are selling. If they are unwilling or unable to give you the guarantee, do not buy from them! Many will use boiler plate excuses like "we bought this from a closeout sale or garage sale, so we aren't sure, but it looks real". Don't buy into their nonsense. Just say no and come to folks like me who offer the real thing!
eBay will not remove these sellers, so it's up to us to get rid of these folks. After all, their bogus offerings give all of us sellers a bad name.
posted on August 1, 2001 12:51:40 PM
****eBay will not remove these sellers, so it's up to us to get rid of these folks. After all, their bogus offerings give all of us sellers a bad name. ****
This is exactly the problem. I believe that a buyer who is truly looking for an authentic item may not bother to keep searching to find the sellers who sell authentic merchandise. I know a lot of people who will not touch eBay with a ten foot pole because of this. Why take the chance of buying a knock off just to save money, let's just go to a real store or a reputable website.
When I look at some categories I always wonder the economic impact on sellers because of all the counterfeit merchandise. I wonder how much more they would receive for their items if they were not competing with fakes.
And I really feel for the consumers who get ripped off. Sometimes, when the bidding gets pretty high, a last minute bidder would have no indication that the item is fake (as in the price would no longer be a clue). And a lot of bidders do not understand their rights with respect to chargebacks and such, so they just suffer the loss.
And believe it or not, some buyers do not understand this whole counterfeit merchandise thing. They do not think to ask about authenticity. Especially when the feedback has no indication that something funny is going on.
The handbag category totally disgusted me. I know I would be equally disgusted (if not more so) by the sunglass category.
posted on August 1, 2001 01:09:00 PM
I'm not intending to add fuel to the fire, but may I ask one thing. There are many people out there who wear paste jewelry (and keep the good stuff in a safe). Some people could care less about "authenticity" and would like to purchase the copies at a lower price. If the companies that produce "fakes" are not shut down and are able to sell their products...why can't the consumer have the choice? If they are told it is fake and the item is not misrepresented I personally feel that it is okay to sell. But, let me say, I do not practice this feeling because I do not want to jeopardize my standing with eBay. Please don't jump on me personally...it's only an opinion.
posted on August 1, 2001 01:27:07 PM
Yikes, I knew I was opening myself up to fire. I'm not knowledgable enough to get technical about laws. When quotes are taken from a copywritten author, and they are credited, it is okay. Right? But I do see your point...the originator should either be protected or somehow receive a royalty.
Your post is really good and really illustrates the issue at hand:
There are companies that produce "designer inspired" type items. For example, a company that makes a handbag that looks just like a Christian Dior bag, or sunglasses that look just likey Oakleys. This is okay,
What I am talking about is a handbag that looks just like the Christian Dior bag, has Christian Dior's logo on the bag, on the hardware and says "Christian Dior Paris" on the interior. But it is not a Christian Dior handbag.
This is what is illegal. A Hanes t-shirt with Tommy Hilfiger logo printed on it. This is illegal. A generic polo shirt with the Ralph Lauren "man on horse" embroidery sewn on and a fake Polo label sewn in. This is illegal. Cheap plastic sunglasses with the Oakley logo in a fake Oakley bag. This is illegal.
****If they are told it is fake and the item is not misrepresented I personally feel that it is okay to sell. ****
This is the problem, if it is illegal, it doesn't matter whether people feel that consumers should have choice.
And eBay really needs to start cracking down on this. Or, at least, offer sellers who sell authentic merchandise and will guarantee the authenticity, a mechanism for highlighting their items in the search itself so that a person does not have to weed through all the auctions to find one. This may, in effect, eliminate the need to police the site as the sellers selling fakes may be driven off the site by decreased demand for thier product.
posted on August 1, 2001 01:43:55 PMWhen quotes are taken from a copywritten author, and they are credited, it is okay. Right?
Depends on the use of the quotes, and how much is quoted.
It wasn't my intention to attack. I just don't see how it would be possible to do as you first indicated:
If they are told it is fake and the item is not misrepresented I personally feel that it is okay to sell.
without a major overhaul of patent/copyright laws. Once you allow person A to use person B's creation without their approval, you are opening up an enormous can of worms.
edited to add...
...and would like to purchase the copies at a lower price
And I'd like to buy a 4,000 sq. ft. beachfront house in southern California for $10,000. Just because somebody wants something, is no reason to assume they should be able to have it.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Aug 1, 2001 01:47 PM ]
posted on August 1, 2001 02:12:27 PM
I agree with everyone about the fake merchandise should be busted.
But look at the price of name brand products!
Who is ripping-off who??
posted on August 1, 2001 02:16:59 PMBut look at the price of name brand products! Who is ripping-off who??
If a willing seller offers a product (at any particular price) to a willing buyer, and the buyer decides to make the purchase, who is getting ripped off?
posted on August 1, 2001 04:28:01 PM
MaterialGirl-
I see sellers everyday on the streets of NYC selling fake Oakley, DKNY, Polo, Coach, Hilfiger, etc. etc. And the police walk and ride past these vendors every day and do nothing. If the police aren't interested in the individual sellers (they do go after the actual importers and manufacturers) why should eBay?
Someone suggested that you email the pertinent license holder and let them become VERO'd if they want to. And if Oakley or Coach or whoever choose not become VEROs, that means they don't think it is worth their time or expense to go after these vendors. And if it isn't worth their time, it certainly isn't worth mine!
posted on August 1, 2001 09:16:00 PM
I was in K-Mart the other day. Virtually everything in the discount stores is a knock-off of some original item that is popular. I was marveling over a copy of the relatively cheap G Shock watch. It was a copy to be sure and done up in an Imac purple translucent. Probably couldn't tell if it was supposed to be a computer or a watch.
The problem is that VERO folks have no sense of either their rights or yours when it comes to determine where they step. You needn't do anything to help these modern-day Inquisitions.
In the computer press recently, both Microsoft and the BSA, which goes after software pirates and their customers, were caught redhanded using software compliance scams to do marketing of software licenses and upgrades with businesses throughout America. The essence was a 30-day period to submit an audit report or get compliant with the veiled sham threat of investigation.
To those who do VERO for their employers: how do you sleep at night?
posted on August 1, 2001 09:50:22 PM
****Virtually everything in the discount stores is a knock-off of some original item that is popular.****
Again, this is not about a knock off, where a style is copied. This is about blatant counterfeit merchandise. So, for example, at K Mart you would have seen a watch that looked exactly like a Casio, said Casio (had the logo and everything) but not a Casio watch.
This is not a problem in every category. And I'm more concerned about the harm to consumers and honest sellers. Everyone cannot understand the mindset behind buying a $300 handbag or a $200 pair of sunglasses...
but imagine shelling out a nice piece of change for a Mavica, then receiving it and finding out it was a cheap digital camera with "Sony Mavica" stenciled on.
But you didn't ask the seller, you should have emailed before hand and made sure that it was real and genuine.
posted on August 5, 2001 02:03:54 PM
I think it would help if ebay had a category
or subcategory for authentic brand name &
designer handbags, sunglasses, clothing,etc.
Brand name/designer is much more important
than dumb categories like "clutches" or
"backpacks".
Even dividing the bags into evening/dressy
& daytime/casual is too limiting. I just
listed a few genuine designer bags today
that can be worn to work and to dinner.
I would prefer to have simply
a brand/name designer category limited to sellers who guarantee & stand behind the authenticity of their merchandise. That
alone could help significantly address the
counterfeit designer issue on ebay.
posted on August 5, 2001 04:03:42 PM
So can I sell fake watches on eBay? You can have Rolex, Cartier, Tag Huer, Tissot. Any brand name you want can be supplied. This is not my trading name and I DO NOT deal in fake goods.
posted on August 5, 2001 04:46:46 PM
eBay has no interest in "Copy-Cat" "Look-and-Feel", "Colors", or "Design" infringements. Copyright Infringement or such is of absolutely no interest to eBay. They would never become a Party to such, as it could be a Restraint of Trade. Pardon me, "Napster" and "BidBay" can do what they like. It's a Free Country, isn't it?
