posted on August 3, 2001 11:15:02 PM
Hello! I am 99% sure that I know the answer to this question. I am just not able to find proof as I am wading through eBay's information pages.
I had one of my frequent buyers email me today for help. She was the second highest bidder in an auction. The high bidder backed out, and now the seller is threatening her and saying she is obligated to purchase the item since she bid on it.
First of all, I am almost positive that it is not systemically possible for the seller to either give negative feedback or file a NPB alert, right? I told my buyer this, but I also wanted to show a link in the eBay policies that said she was not obligated. I couldn't find anything. The only thing that came close was in the eBay user agreement point 4 where it states :
"If you are the highest bidder at the end of an auction (meeting the applicable minimum bid or reserve requirements) and your bid is accepted by the seller, you are obligated to complete the transaction with the seller, unless the item is listed in a category under the Non-Binding Bid Policy"
I couldn't find anything that says you may offer it to the second highest bidder but they aren't under any obligation. Is this one of the terms eBay has kept vague purposely? Or is there something out there I haven't found.
I apologize if this has been discussed before. I am new to these boards and I did try looking through the archives and couldn't find anything addressing this topic.
posted on August 3, 2001 11:32:35 PM
I thought - could be wrong - that when ebay went to this email address undercover thing, you were no longer able to even see the email address of the runner up bidder.
I just check - I can not see the runner up email address. Therefore, how can you even email them?
To the best of my knowledge - even before, when ebay used to suggest you go to the runner up bidder - they are NOT obligated.
posted on August 3, 2001 11:37:22 PM
Take a look at the ended auction, if your friend's ID is not on there, they are off the hook. It is possible, however, that the high bidder retracted their bid before the auction ended in which case the second high bidder (your friend) then becomes the high bidder.
Unless of course it is a dutch auction....
Then disregard everything above.
posted on August 3, 2001 11:52:42 PM
richierich - In answer to:
"I can not see the runner up email address. Therefore, how can you even email them? "
I have no idea. I do know that this buyer makes many multiple purchases from me so maybe she had purchased something else from that person and they already had her email from the previous transaction??? I will ask her.
BlondeSense - In answer to:
It is possible, however, that the high bidder retracted their bid before the auction ended in which case the second high bidder (your friend) then becomes the high bidder.
Good question also. I will have to ask her this. I assumed the auction was over and the person just didn't pay, but I'll ask.
posted on August 4, 2001 12:25:38 AM
Since the poster stated that the high bidder backed out, I assume the auction ended with your friend being the second highest bidder.
If such is the case, your friend is not obligated to buy the item. eBay allows the seller to "offer" the item to the next highest bidder in these circumstances, but the under bidders are not obligated to make the purchase.
Edited to add- It is questionable whether you would be obligated to buy if a high bidder retracts his/her bid from an auction in progress. Once your bid is eclisped, your offer is off the table.
posted on August 4, 2001 01:02:59 AM
Underbidders are not in my experience expected or obligated to buy an item in an auction simply because they placed a bid. Being outbid relinguishes the underbidders obligation to complete the transaction.
Most underbidders are happy when they receive an email offering the item to them in the amount of their final bid, but are perfectly free to decline without suffering abuse or other related consequences.
I'd email or call Customer Service as soon as possible to lodge a complaint against this Seller as a form of record as to his or her bad business practices, then I'd utilize the BLOCK THIS SENDER feature in my email program. I would then investigate the blacklisting feature, hopefully denying any and all possible access to my ratings by this person. I have no clue if this will work with eBay.
It bothers me more than a little that a Buyer would be mishandled in this way by a Seller on Any Site. It's Sellers like this who kill the spirit of the auctions. I Hope this helps, but if nothing else I got to vent!
posted on August 4, 2001 01:09:20 AM
there is no way that could be what if i bid on it then i got out bid and was not wanting to pay more than what i my self bid so i lost the item
i should not have to sit an till it ends to see if high bider backs out i will go bid on a nother item that is what i want to pay
good luck
posted on August 4, 2001 03:37:36 AM
Reamond writes: "It is questionable whether you would be obligated to buy if a high bidder retracts his/her bid from an auction in progress. Once your bid is eclisped, your offer is off the table." I'm afraid this is not questionable: Your bid is not off the table when the higher bid retracts. You become the official high again.
posted on August 4, 2001 03:51:09 AM
I have been in the situation where the high bidder retracted his bid, leaving me the high bidder. I had already found another listing for the item and was high bidder on that one. Luckily the one involving the bid retraction had enough time left for me to retract my bid as well. I wrote the seller and explained the situation and she was very understanding and I was happy to see that she ended up with a nice high ending bid.
I really would have been screwed if I had not been able to retract my bids on at least one of the auctions. Bid retractions are the most damaging of the "legal" bidding maneuvers, particularly when they are done in the bidding. I think most bidders, once they are outbid start looking for some other item to spend their money on. If I "escrowed" every dollar I bid on the chance that I might end up the high bidder, it would sure reduce the number of items I bid on.
Gerald
"Oh but it's so hard to live by the rules/I never could and still never do."
posted on August 4, 2001 05:19:37 AM
- #1 - "SNIPE" - #2 - eBay Says "We are not an Auction; we are a "VENUE", so Really, they have ZERO Authority in their Dumb Rules & Regs! After 90 days they do NOT give a Buyer "Fraud Protectiom, Etc., Etc., Etc.,! Get some "Multiple-ID's", eBay "Multi-Registers" Fakers & Frauds, so why not an HONEST BIDDER! When you go to a Local "REAL" Auction House, they don't play all these Silly Games! You know WHO BIDS! You know HOW MUCH THEY BID! You know WHEN THEY BID! You Lose as #2 Bidder, get in yer Jag & Go Home! eBay's Dumb, Self-Serving-Only Monopolistic Rules & Regs are gonna be HISTORY soon. (DOJ & US Congress) Incidentally, have they SUED you for wearing COLORS YET? - PJ38 -
posted on August 4, 2001 05:27:31 AM
non winning bidders can be sent email via ebays as a member a question feature. the seller can contact all other bidders via this method. the email is routed thru ebay as to theoreticly prevent after auction or non auction sales...if that makes sense
posted on August 4, 2001 05:49:11 AM
Actually, the seller can get the emailaddr of ALL of his bidders. So when you bid, you are agreeing for the seller to have this access. The purpose of the ebay email procedures is to keep every tom-dick-&harry from having access to all the bidders. In that case (having no business relationship), you can get an email to other bidders only through ebay forwarding system. A while back there were extensive complaints about this access for everyone to the email addresses of all bidders in an auction. The current procedures pretty much solve this, while still allowing full access to the seller. You can verify all this by clicking on the id's in a bid history. Try it with your own auctions, in auctions in which you bid, and in auctions in which you were not involved. I, apparently for one, believe the current procedures are excellent.
posted on August 4, 2001 06:14:17 AM
In a contract schematic of an auction, a seller offers the item to the highest bid and rejects all offers of a lower amount.
Once a higher bid comes in, the lower bidders' offer is immediately rejected. Once an offer is rejected, it is no longer available to be accepted later by a seller.
At live auctions, the auctioneer comes back to the lower bidders and requests a new offer, and the bids begin anew.
While it is questionable whether any offers and acceptance are legally binding on eBay since a seller can end an auction and cancel bids at will, an under bidder's offer is still extinguished once it is eclisped by a bidder at an auction.
When an auction has a high bid cancelled, eBay should erase all bids and email all under bidders and request them to re-bid.
While bidding by proxy as is done on eBay makes the analysis somewhat different, the same rules apply. Otherwise, the bidder loses control of his/her offer, and has no way of actually knowing if a bid is rejected or accepted even if a higher bid comes in. The bidder's high proxy bid is also exposed when a higher bid is cancelled. Attempting to enforce on buyer or seller an under bid when a higher bidder retracts a bid promotes bid shielding and shill bidding.
For these reasons, I would advise any under bidder of an auction that has a cancelled bid to formally retract your bid from the auction. Any recourse should be directed towards the high bid retraction.
posted on August 4, 2001 06:21:00 AMWhen an auction has a high bid cancelled, eBay should erase all bids and email all under bidders and request them to re-bid.
I can understand why you would think this (and bid retractions do hurt other bidders as well as the seller), but that's like turning a 10 day auction into a 1 day auction. That's not fair either.
Only fair thing is, don't bid if your not serious.
posted on August 4, 2001 08:57:50 AM
Bid retractions hurt buyer and seller. eBay can extend the auction.
To be fair to everyone involved, a high bid retraction should start the auction process over. eBay has the technology to do it quite easily.
I think sellers have the most to lose from bid retractions due to bid shielding. If the second place bidder is in any way obligated to transact if a high bidder cancels a bid, then it must be the case that the seller is obligated to sell to the under bidder when a high bid is retracted.
There is also a reason eBay treats buyers who cancel bids with kid gloves- eBay doesn't want buyers alienated in any way towards eBay. Buyers are what eBay holds up to corporations to entice them to sell on eBay. Imagine what would happen to a seller that accepted payments and refused to ship 3 or 4 times - they would be history probably after the second transgression.
posted on August 4, 2001 09:10:34 AM
Hey, I just thought of something! In the case of a less than scrupulous seller, this would be a perfect way to sell multiple items to bidders without listing a second time. After all, the second highest bidder really has no way of knowing that the high bidder did, indeed, back out. Loophole that eBay never thought of????
posted on August 4, 2001 09:32:51 AMTo be fair to everyone involved, a high bid retraction should start the auction process over. eBay has the technology to do it quite easily.
Not trying to poke holes in your ideas, but I'm not sure about this either. The way some people "game the system", someone could keep your auction from ever ending.
posted on August 4, 2001 09:37:20 AMLoophole that eBay never thought of????
They've thought about it.
"Using member contact information obtained from eBay or using any eBay feature to sell duplicate or additional merchandise outside of eBay to underbidders"
posted on August 4, 2001 10:31:45 AM
The seller your friend is talking about, is completely after the money! It's total nonsense to make the second highest bidder obligated to the item. She should send an e-mail to eBay and tell them about this harassment by the seller.
posted on August 4, 2001 10:53:03 AM
After the auction ends, only the high bidder is obligated. If the high bidder doesn't pay, the seller can offer it to second-highest bidder (this may have changed after Ebay's last rule change about contacting non-winning bidders), but he or she isn't obligated to buy.
If you are outbid on one item, wait until that auction has ended before placing a bid on an identical item. If the bidder who outbid you retracts his/her bid or becomes unregistered before the auction ends, your bid may be reinstated as the high bidder. If you have also bid on another identical item, you may end up being obligated to purchase both items.
In either case, to put it simply, if you are listed as the high bidder after the auction ends, you are obligated. Otherwise, you aren't.
Thanks all for your input. My friend wrote back and she said that the high bidder didn't retract their bid, they just didn't pay. So, it looks like she's under no obligation. She had purchased a similar item from someone else after the auction was over and she didn't win, so it was something she really didn't need. It looks like she's off the hook.
