mrspock
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posted on August 4, 2001 08:25:56 PM new
we shipped a item that was damaged by USPS ,the item was insured
The buyer received the item repackaged it shipped it back to us Thenemailed us and said she wanted a refund.
She says there was no point in filing a claim as she saw no visable damage to the box. She felt the item was poorly packed.
We received the item today and it was damaged however I see two indentations in the box corisponding to the damaged area's.
I intend to reply to her that no refund will be issued since the item was insured and since she decided not to file the claim or to consult with us prior to returning the item.
Am I being fair ?
Would you refund ?
Partial refund ?
spock here......
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sulyn1950
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posted on August 4, 2001 08:39:25 PM new
Take the package to the PO and see if you can file the claim yourself.
I would contact buyer and tell them that had they gone ahead and taken the package to the PO or contacted you so you could have started the claim on your end there probably would have been no problem getting the claim settled. Now, you are not sure.
Tell her that the PO accepted the package originally and allowed insurance to be put on it, so they must have felt it was good to go.
If she had handled it properly, there probably would not have been a problem.
She may very well have ruined any chance you had to get the PO to pay off a claim. I would let her know that was not the proper thing to do!!!
Good luck!
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yisgood
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posted on August 4, 2001 09:10:18 PM new
How did the buyer pay? If a credit card was used or Billpoint, Paydirect or Paypal, you had better refund before a charge back is done and you will eat the costs plus charge back fees.
http://www.ygoodman.com
[email protected]
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roofguy
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posted on August 4, 2001 09:34:15 PM new
http://www.auctionwatch.com/mesg/read.html?num=2&thread=404700
mrspock, meet rebeang
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rebeang
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posted on August 4, 2001 10:34:59 PM new
Nice to meet you Spock....
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sulyn1950
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posted on August 4, 2001 11:00:05 PM new
I have read both post. In the case of rebeang, since they paid for insurance and still have the package and can present it to the PO then no matter what happens, I feel they should be reimbursed. If not by the PO, then by the seller.
In the case of mrspock, his buyer sent the package back without even trying to file the claim. Now he has to deal with a reshipped package and more than likely the PO will contend the damage was done the second time around and if it was returned without insurance they probably will NOT pay.
Had the buyer in this case done the right thing, I would have argued the same for them as I did rebeang.
Since, they did not, I have to argue for mrspock. Why should he be expected to fork over money our of his own pocket to cover what the insurance would have paid if his buyer had simply done their part.
The cases as presented by these two people are totally different and what applies in one case does not necessarily apply in the other. IMHO....
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Aug 4, 2001 11:23 PM ]
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commentary
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posted on August 4, 2001 11:04:42 PM new
You should take to PO yourself and see if insurance claim is valid. Your packaging made not be acceptable to the Post Office. If the first employee rejects your claim, try it again at another branch.
I always process the refund for my customers. I have a good relationship with my post office and know they will give me the benefit of the doubt. Plus I know the routine.
Either way, you should refund your customer the cost of the item. If you really want to be a good samaritan, then refund the postage as well as the insurance fee. Post Office will not refund that to you.
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twinsoft
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posted on August 4, 2001 11:15:42 PM new
It happened to me. Buyer refused insurance. Item lost in mail.
The buyer actually wrote to me and said "I'll pay the extra $1 for insurance" after the item turned up missing. I swear to God.
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mcjane
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posted on August 5, 2001 12:05:33 AM new
twinsoft Some people unbelievable, Now I've heard everything.
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NanasTurtles
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posted on August 5, 2001 12:37:37 AM new
I know this probably won't help "after the fact". But as a seller, I try to address all aspects of anything that can come up before it comes up. In my buyer invoice, I have this statement: "*** All insurance claims are the responsibility of the buyer and you must present damaged items along with ALL boxes and packing material immediately to the post office in order to process your insurance claim. The Post office will not pay on claims if all the above stated items are not taken to the post office for accessment at time of claim, and I will not be held responsible if these instructions are not followed.".........Even though I do state that insurance claims are the responsibility of the buyer, I have always filed them at my post office also because I have a good relationship with my postmaster. But I note this in my invoice so it is there for them to read if they choose to read it.......I can't make them read my invoice in full, but many things are covered there to help them have a smooth transaction as well as a smooth transaction for me as a seller. Might be something you might wish to think about also, to either note something like this in your invoice you send with your total amount due or at least maybe within your TOS in your auction description......might save you a headache later on.
Not "NanasTurtle" on ebay
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mrspock
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posted on August 5, 2001 08:18:54 AM new
I am assuming that the post office will do nothing at this point but I will go down and try to file a claim this week and take it from there.
I do want to be fair but the way I see it she has killed any chance for insurance claim and is now expecting me to pay for it.
Had she first contacted me and then filed a insurance a claim and had that claim been denied then I would be inclined to refund.
I have stayed away from long tos but I will ad something to my invoice as was suggested.
She did pay by paypal and I do worry about the chargeback potential.
Thanks to everyone for your responses it helps to see other points of view.
spock here......
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commentary
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posted on August 5, 2001 09:39:26 AM new
Why would the post office not honor the claim? A damaged claim can be file by either the mailer or receiptient. Requirements are that the damaged item along with the packaging material is available. Also, the insurance receipt.
If the post office denies the claim because they feel the packaging was not adequate, then you need to refund the buyer from your own pocket. If the post office honors the claim, then you need to send the buyer back the refund. Either way, the buyer is made whole on the purchase price of the item.
If you do not refund, I would not blame the buyer for doing a chargeback.
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mrspock
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posted on August 5, 2001 09:55:38 AM new
commentary
As a previos poster pointed out post office may deny the claim based on return trip not bieng insured.
Buyer should be made whole yes but seller should not suffer for buyers failure to act in a resonable manner.
spock here......
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rebeang
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posted on August 5, 2001 10:02:24 AM new
I have to say that I think it is all going to depend on how you present your case to your local friendly postal clerk. It is going to depend on the relationship you have with them as well. How well they know you, etc.
If the seller or buyer is able to file a claim and the goods must be presented to do so, I see no other way for you to have the goods than if the buyer sent them back to you. How else would the shipper file a claim? So, where is the problem?
You bring the balls and I'll bring the bat!!
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commentary
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posted on August 5, 2001 10:05:25 AM new
Sorry - I guess I did not understand your original post. Are you saying that the original packaging was not sent back to you along with the item? If buyer did not send the original packaging back, then you cannot file a claim anyway. If she did, why would she need to insure the shipment back? Item was already damaged.
In your original post, you indicate damaged to the box due to identations. Is this box the your original packaging or the box of the buyer? Or did buyer simply reuse the same box?
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mrspock
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posted on August 5, 2001 11:40:56 AM new
let me throw one more thing into the pot here
She returned it in the orgianl box with orginal packaging but wrote refused on the box and it was returned
She opened it saw the damage resealed the box wrote refused on the box. I guess this could either help or hinder.
I think I will just tell the postal clerk that it was returned broken and see what happens I am on a freindly basis with the clerks and we did have them stamp fragile on the box the clerk said this would help in the event of a insurance claim so we will see what happens.
spock here......
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commentary
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posted on August 5, 2001 01:18:30 PM new
Now I see - you do have a problem. Since the buyer returned in the same box, the buyer must have remove your postage as well the original shipping/destination addresses. Not sure how the post office can verified it was the original box. Anyone can write refused on a box.
I hope you gave your postal employees some Christmas cookies
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rebeang
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posted on August 5, 2001 01:22:03 PM new
If she merely wrote "refused" on the box, then the PO must have sent it back to the originator using the return address, so all should be fine.
I still think it will be OK. You had no control over the recipient's actions, and the PO should understand that. Please keep us posted, I would like to see how this one turns out.
You bring the balls and I'll bring the bat!!
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mrspock
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posted on August 5, 2001 02:04:17 PM new
She opened the bottom of the box and resealed the box the Post office on her end put a return to sender sticker over her address with a arrow pointing to our return address.
The only postmark is the orginal one from when we shipped so it looks like one postage charge both ways
I am strting to feel better about the chances of collecting
I will post the outcome probably next week.
I apprecite all the advice evan the ones I disagree with.
spock here......
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rebeang
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posted on August 5, 2001 02:13:07 PM new
In that case, you should be fine. It looks like procedure was at least partially followed. I think you will get the money back on it. I have faith
You bring the balls and I'll bring the bat!!
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booksbooksbooks
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posted on August 5, 2001 02:23:52 PM new
Are you certain that the item she returned is the same as the one you sent?
Here's why I ask:
(1) By re-sealing the package and marking it "refused" she was illegally avoiding payment of postage. Once a package is opened, you have to pay the return postage to send it back.
(2) She opened the package from the bottom. Why would she do this, unless she was already planning to return the package without paying return postage, and wanted the top of the package to look unopened?
(3) It's not because she thought the item arrived broken (unless the broken item would have rattled in the box before she opened it), because she says she saw no external damage.
Unless there was a rattle or some other indication of breakage, why would she already have decided to return the item before she opened it? And why would she be reluctant to take the item to the P.O. for insurance inspection?
The most logical explanation is that she planned to switch items, and send you her broken one. While she could probably get away with cheating the P.O. on the return postage, filing insurance claims would generate a paper trail that would eventually catch up with her.
I could be way off base here; perhaps some people open all of their packages upside down. But I see some rather suspicious behavior here.
What is her feedback like? Can you e-mail other sellers she has won items from to see if a pattern emerges?
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mrspock
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posted on August 5, 2001 05:05:03 PM new
booksbooksbooks
That was my first thought when the package was returned I examined it carefully I would would swear it had never been opened
The Item in question is a one of a kind craft item and I am sure the one returned is the same we shipped.
She described the damage in detail so I do beleive she opened it.
I thought it was odd that she was able to return it without paying addtinal postage.
spock here......
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rebeang
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posted on August 5, 2001 05:59:05 PM new
duh...sometimes it takes me awhile, but that's right! You can't "return to sender" an opened package, otherwise all of those BMG music CD's I opened and did not want, I would not have had to pay postage on them...
hmmm...
she knows what she is doing. Whole thing is starting to sound fishy to me.
You bring the balls and I'll bring the bat!!
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mrspock
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posted on August 5, 2001 07:05:23 PM new
now its time for the rest of the storyas the man says
This whole deal has been very strange from the start
Actully its my wifes sale she just asked for my help in handling it.
The item had been listed in June with no bids ,it had a low opening , with a reserve. In mid July this buyer contacts my wife and asks if she still has it becouse she saw it earlier and didn't bid but now would like it. My wife emails her back says she will sell it for the reserve price buyer agrees deal is set buyer pays via paypal.
I am assuning this is a one of a kind item but I suppose she could have done the old switcheroo. I will look closley at the item tomorrow in the light and see if I can figure out if this is the orginal or a duplicate. Could be she had one , saw the one we had listed , broke hers , figured she would replace it this way.
spock here......
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