posted on August 5, 2001 10:14:22 AM
WOW! What a month! I had a few non paying bidders on rather expensive
items - one in the neighborhood of $7000.00! I had taken all the
steps to solve the problems, I had emailed both parties many time
before filing a NPB alert through ebay, once I filed I was quickly
contacted by all the non paying bidders.
First reply:
"I am sorry for not replying. I was a bit busy the last couple of days. There is
something else. I did a small research about the piece you're offering and I found
out where the REAL authentic piece is. I am sorry, but I won't pay since I don't
belive this is a real."
I replied to this person and said, you outbid 10 others and it is a
private auction which makes it impossible to contact the other
bidders. If you read the description you would have seen this is an
estate authorized limited edition, the original is worth 3 million
dollars. That listing cost me $27. This is a legal binding contract..
His reply:
"You know what is the best thing about not living in the US? You know what is the
best thing about non WTO accessed developing countries? Legal actions taken in most
US courts DO NOT APPLY. You see, we are not under US jurisdiction. You can get me
ONLY if you file your suit in the Supreme court!!!!!!! You can go ahead and hier a
lawyer and spend few thousand dollars . Let me see how you can take legal actions
while I am in Saudi Arabia. I won't pay for the item and I will certainly not pay
your fees too."
I then left a negative feedback..... three days later he left me a NEG
saying I am mean.
The other bidder replied with a one liner.
"ha ha sucks for you"
I then left a NEG for him as well....
Three days later, he NEGs me with this.
"Complaint : hes stupid dont listen to him and he prolly smells bad, so
i hear"
A day later he was suspended for 3 NPB alerts, he was on ebay three
weeks.
Both bidders have BS info, I have tried to phone the second three
times to explain the legal problems he faces (defamation of charier)
two people at that number said "no such person"
I had reported these "retaliation NEGs" to ebay......
The reply:
QUOTE.
Thank you for your reply.
In review it appears that we have submitted the feedback comment left by
XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX for removal. However, the criteria for this removal
was not because the comment was retaliatory. It was due to other
actions of the member.
Unless feedback meets the guidelines outlined in the removal policy, we
cannot remove the comment. While retaliatory feedback is strongly
discouraged by eBay, it would not qualify as grounds for removal.
As such, the comment posted by XXXXXXX do not qualify for removal.
Again, thanks for using eBay. Your understanding of this policy is
greatly appreciated.
END QUOTE
I replied to them with the question:
"IF A NEG LEFT BY AN OBVIOUS JUVENILE WITH A COMMENT LIKE
> hes stupid dont listen to him and he prolly smells bad, so
> i hear
AND HAS FAKE INFORMATION PLUS WAS SUSPENDED FOR 3 NPBS, THEN WHAT THE
HECK CAN BE REMOVED?!
As most of you know I was suspended from eBay FOUR times in error - I
lost credibility from those errors and NOW I have this mess.
I think eBay owes me big time for those errors, I could have taken
legal action, and now they say NOPE can't remove those NEGs.
I sped read the removal page http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/fbremove.html
and found that if a member has BS contact info it can be removed.
I eMailed eBay about that and never herd back.
Now, one NPB is a -1 and the other is a 0 (not a registered user)
What is the major deal with removing a outrageous NEG!? It's not like I
am asking to list for free........
I have since then limited my auctions to Canada, Mexico, Europe, U.S.
and I will have a bidders contact info if bidding on a higher end
piece. Further more - I will NEVER leave a NEG! or POS! forget that
system.
Meawhile I get this from a bidder on a 3K item.
QUOTE:
"Yes, I was had very much interest in the "Buy it Now" offer before reviewing your
feedback with two neg ratings. I am now hesitant to follow through not knowing for
sure of the integrity of this offering. I will review."
END
I replied:
One said I was mean the other says I smell, what does that have to do
with "integrity"?
posted on August 5, 2001 01:02:22 PM
I have had 3 negs removed ( of the 5 total negs I have gotten, with 6000 positive, a record I am very proud of !)because of personal attacks. I would have think "he smell bad or so i hear" would have qualified for that. Sorry to hear of you problems and hope they don't effect your business to bad. Lots of luck in the future.
posted on August 5, 2001 01:18:39 PM
defamation of character for the 2nd ones feedback comments "hes stupid dont listen to him and he prolly smells bad, so
i hear" .......theres not a court in the land that would rulethat defamation, esp. since its just on your ebay FB.....what happened sucks, no doubt but defamation??? lets be real....suspended 4 times in error???, i guess i missed those threads, care to give us the readres digest version. 4 errors seems strange...
posted on August 5, 2001 02:01:08 PM
Sorry, but I would have to post a followup under that "prolly smells bad" feedback... Something like..."No, really, I remembered to put on my deodorant today!", with a big ol' smiley face, or something to the effect of "Is that the best you can do?"; you know, something that lets all of your buyers know that you are a bigger person than letting some idiot like that get to you.
posted on August 5, 2001 02:31:21 PM
- ! - W O W - ! - We now have a short list of NSS at the bottom of all our e-mail below our singature and contact info option. We call it our "MyBeware" List. We have received Thanks from all that have read the Warnings. One is an over 90 Day Seller that eBay says "Exceeds Fraud Insurance Protection Time Limit" We all know how eBay discourages Negs, tells us to be Patient, call on your dime, Etc! Also, a "BEWARE - 2-3 times in you Negs and Responses will get the Message to the NSS or MPB. It also lets anyone about to NEG you take a long time to think about it. By eBay taking a Paid NSS's Listing Fee, then telling you they are "Not a Party", "Just a Venue" they forfeit any and all rights to tell you what you can put in your e-mails (Who are they? The Anti-1st Ammendment-Thought Police?) Make sure you use the word "ALLEGED" or "ALLEGEDLY" so as not to "Liable" an "ALLEGED" Fraud in your NEGS! "BEWARE" is Nice. BEWARE-at beginning and end of your NEG is nicer-BEWARE- eBay and other "So-Called/Self-Described" "VENUES" are walking themselves into the Lion's Mouth by trying to tell you you can't wear the colors Red, Blue, and Green while you run "Your Auction", Remember, they say "We are not an Auction", will Congress and the Supremes believe them when they say: "We are not a Monopoly"? Why don't they advertise on TV and in print Media as "eBay Venue" At least Microsoft was subject to SOME State and Federal Laws and Regs. We don't want Congress, the IRS, Etc., all over the Internet or Internet Commerce or "Venues" (Auctions), but when an Corporation writes it's own little Rules and Regs, then does not Protect it's "Venue" Buyers and Sellers while taking Fees to List, Service, offer Internet Payment Plans, you can see State Governor's will say: "30 Billion $'s out there we need to Tax!" (See: Yahoo-Current-News Pages!)Congress (D-MA-Sen. John Kerry: "Federal 5% Federal Internet Retail Sales Tax within 5 years" and the Courts will not say, as they did not say to Bill Gates: "Write your own Rules, you are not Trying/Succeeding in Monpolizing......" Hey, we are NOT criticizing Microsoft, Gates, our Microsoft-WebTV, Internet Auctioneers (Per eBay that is the "Seller", not them, they are just a "VENUE"!) This "Distancing/Deniability Bull" reeks of the Mob, CIA, and Several Recently Accused "Friends"/"Parents"/"Spouses" of "Deceased" or "Missing" Humans! It has become an "Art-Form" for the Well-Heeled, but not you or I or even Bill Gates; big Corporations seem to do what the last one did that got nailed. Another Idiot tried to Invade and Conquer Russia in the WINTER besides Nappy! Only Celebrities, Pols, the Wealthy get away with "Alleged" ------. (Disclaimers, Lawsuits, Batteries Not Included) When there is $ to grab, Govt. and the Revenue Dept. will find a Vacuum of Control or a Preponderance of Abuses (Read: "They have 30 Billion Dollars, the GNP may only be growing at 1 1/2% Annually, but we need to Increase our Federal Budget 7%+ Every Year!" Along comes a Corporation trading a 165+ and /\, and claiming they are "Not a ........", while ignoring Abuses of their Fee-Paying "Auctioneers", and the Pols Think: "Perks, Summer Vacation Homes, Gifts, Gourmet Dinners, Harvard/Yale for the Kiddies, Interns, Attorney's Fees", Etc.! We are the Ca$h Cow. We do NOT advocate a Fed or VAT Internet Retail Sales Tax. We cannot control abuses. "Venues?" will not. VACUUM for Oversight/Revenue/Bureaucrats/Courts? Just our DUMB Observations. Pols are not "Mensans"; they smell a opening ($/Power). We are not Miss Cleo (Why does she need to ask your Credit Card #?) We don't use ANY Credit Cards/Auto Withdrawals/Bank Debit System, Etc. RISK - LACK OF CONTROL - FEES - HATE ATTORNEYS - FRAUD - IT'S OUR MONEY - ~{PJ187}~ (Just noticed; our latest received POS FB: "PERFECT" Good Luck Sellers and Buyers and "Venues"
skeetypete
Well the defamation of character, or slander or what ever I can think of will, ultimately, come in the form of a letter from an attorney - at my cost, just to freak this child out and hopefully he won't do this to anyone else.... this person appears to hate people. OR, this is that competitor that was emailing eBay to have me suspended.
posted on August 5, 2001 03:19:09 PM
Hello xxxxxxx,
I manage the SafeHarbor department that oversees the feedback removal
process.
I am sorry to see the several different challenges you have had with
your eBay account.
I personally reviewed your request for feedback removal and can relate
to the frustration that you must feel.
The comment left by user- xxxxxxxx qualified for removal and is
no longer on your profile.
The comment left by user- xxxxxxx
did not qualify under our criteria for feedback removal.
In one of your emails you mentioned different steps that you will now be
taking to avoid the possibility of receiving future negative feedback.
It appears that you are knowledgeable of the best practices that ensure
positive trading experiences on eBay.
Please let us know how we can be of further assistance.
If you would like to speak with me personally with regard to the results
of the feedback removal, I can be reached at .
============================================
I was given a direct phone number as well.
At least one is gone! but it says I have 3 negs and I have 1 with a NU - I had a neutral when AW had closed the email system and I had a complaint about the change of email address and a trip I took.
I would still like to convince eBay of the other NEG.
posted on August 5, 2001 03:31:43 PM
I have learned to keep my neg feedback neutral and so far no one has retaliated since then. It's too bad, but the deadbeats are out there and summer is worse as people have too much idle time and bid without activating their brains first.
posted on August 5, 2001 06:17:42 PM
Hi Art 2 of them used profanity with a neatly place exclamtions such as "seller is full of sh!*" the other simpley said in a responese that "seller is jerk and should be on this planet" or something similar to that so they removed that one also. I agree with some of the other posts here. In my case I have around 6000 positives and 3 or so negs. People will look at the overall picture and not pay any attention to the negs. No matter what you do in any business you will never be able to please them all so just smile and say have anice day. It's always much more fun to return with a kind statement or gesture becaus that really drive them up the wall!!!
posted on August 5, 2001 07:12:05 PM
I had one removed. I don't remember the exact reason. (I think he posted both profanity and personal info in my feedback.) I also recall that eBay removed by complaint in his feedback as well. Their policy. He posts my personal info and gets my neg removed from his profile. I couldn't leave another one after that.
Recently I exchanged negs with one party and he replied (in his feedback) "this guy is full of sh*t." I let it stand.
The whole feedback system is messed up. I am a powerseller and I have to maintain a certain feedback ratio. I get enough negs already, and if I LEFT A NEG FOR EVERY DEADBEAT it would cost me my PS rating. Just for leaving appropriate feedback. eBay loves this, even the crooks look like reputable buyers/sellers.
A few days ago in this forum I read a thread by some seller who was obviously dealing with a nasty looney. The seller's (who was innocent, according to the story) take was, "I hope she doesn't ruin my perfect feedback." The seller never once considered leaving neutral or negative feedback out of fear of retaliation. eBay's feedback does not work because only the positive transactions get listed and the negative ones are hushed up by everyone. The seller in the thread above mentioned the buyer's "perfect" feedback rating (9). D'oh!
posted on August 6, 2001 01:02:24 PM
I have 2 negatives - one I received for not contacting a customer - on the second day. I contacted the guy who left the second one and he said, nothing personal, that the book was OK.
posted on August 6, 2001 01:56:35 PM
I have had a NEG WAAAAAY back in the begining from what I found to be a freak after my wife (long story) anyhoot.....
I had sold a "print" (I now shy away from selling unframed prints). So, I met the guy, handed to him, he opens it in front of me, say alright thanks, I say a couple things, we part... He emails three weeks later and says, I have it framed and just love it, thanks! I will leave positive feedback after you! So, like a dumb @zz I put a good pos for the guy because he was new and had a 0.
a week later he put a NEG!
"Lithograph of low quality. Seller wouldn't take it back. Stay away from this one"
My hands shook like I was ODing on dope! I was floored!
I then came up with a return policy - I tweak every so often.... it goes something like this.................................
Unfortunately in our world today we need to make rules for almost everything in life due to the negligence and sinisterness of others. Therefore we needed to come up with the following simple Return Policy and statement.
We offer an unconditional three day money back policy (excluding buyers remorse) for any art we may sell on eBay. If for some unfortunate reason you wish to return a piece we will accept it under the condition it falls within a fair 3 day inspection period. We feel three days is ample time to decide if the piece you win is as described. There also must be a legitimate reason as the piece was not as described or damaged (in this case all items are insured) buyers remorse or financial situations are not grounds for returns.
Having said that and knowing you the buyer have the 3 day inspection period and have a legitimate reason, then return the piece for a refund minus Shipping, Insurance and eBay and Auction-watch fees including Featured Category, Gallery or Highlighting Fees & auction end commissions. All sales past the above mentioned notification period are considered final and not returnable.
The item must be returned in the same condition as when it was first sent to you. Items returned damaged in anyway will not be refunded.
I use Post-Sale Management Tools
Winning Bidder Notification (WBN)
WBN Response Received
Payment Received
Postage / Address Printed
Item Shipped
Shipment Status Sent to Buyer
Feedback Sent
Shipment Arrived
Feedback Received
Upon completion of the auction the winner will receive a Winning Bidder Notification via e-mail, by responding to the Winning Bidder Notification I am able to put you into a system to track response letter, Payment Received I then can print out your Postage / Address Printed along with an invoice. I can also check off when your Item Shipped and track that myself with the tracking number. I then Shipment Status Sent to Buyer If you would like feedback I will reciprocate any feedback you leave, I will know to leave it for you after seeing feedback from you. I will (after seeing your feedback - without question)then Feedback Sent - I will check to see when your Shipment Arrived and finally click that Feedback Received ,If you do not respond to the Winning Bidder Notification within three days I usually will send another.
If you do not respond after a second and one week, I contact eBay. Payment should be made within one week. If you run into a problem ~ just e-mail me or call, I am a very understanding person as long as I am informed
We do not take personal checks - period. We have had bad luck with them. We will take Money order, PayPal or certified check - wire transfers on $1K and up.
NO personal deliveries or pick ups.
If you want to pay for hand delivery in Chicago-land I can arrange for a service.
About us:
(I put a about me blurb here)
PLEASE NOTE: A link to this page is provided on all of my auctions ###(well not no more! I need to delete that)#### and will also be provided with the WBN. You would have received this link at least twice. It is assumed you have read and understand, if not e-mail or call.
END
note I have said "NO personal deliveries or pick ups" and also mention "If you would like feedback I will reciprocate any feedback you leave, I will know to leave it for you after seeing feedback from you. I will (after seeing your feedback - without question)"
I will NOT leave any feedback for anyone BEFORE they leave me a POS.
I have had a cople people say, "thanks, I am about to leave a POS for you."
One guy from the same town has emailed me 3 times in two months saying "I am going to leave POS feedback, I have been busy, I will do it now"
Never did . .. .. was this guy going to pull the same deal as the first? NO SAY, but, I almost left a POS first - I hate beating myself up! and it will not happen again!
I would never leave a feedback first , POS OR NEG......
!)because of personal attacks. I would have think "he smell bad or so i hear" would have qualified for that. Sorry to hear of you problems and hope they don't effect your business to bad. Lots of luck in the future.
and the Courts will not say, as they did not say to Bill Gates: "Write your own Rules, you are not Trying/Succeeding in Monpolizing......" Hey, we are NOT criticizing Microsoft, Gates, our Microsoft-WebTV, Internet Auctioneers (Per eBay that is the "Seller", not them, they are just a "VENUE"!) This "Distancing/Deniability Bull" reeks of the Mob, CIA, and Several Recently Accused "Friends"/"Parents"/"Spouses" of "Deceased" or "Missing" Humans! It has become an "Art-Form" for the Well-Heeled, but not you or I or even Bill Gates; big Corporations seem to do what the last one did that got nailed. Another Idiot tried to Invade and Conquer Russia in the WINTER besides Nappy! Only Celebrities, Pols, the Wealthy get away with "Alleged" ------. (Disclaimers, Lawsuits, Batteries Not Included) When there is $ to grab, Govt. and the Revenue Dept. will find a Vacuum of Control or a Preponderance of Abuses (Read: "They have 30 Billion Dollars, the GNP may only be growing at 1 1/2% Annually, but we need to Increase our Federal Budget 7%+ Every Year!"