posted on September 6, 2001 12:47:51 PM
I won two auctions from the same seller. Both are small lightweight $10 items that could be shipped Priority for 3.50 and require no special packaging. The seller sent me his end of auction e-mail for only one auction and said shipping and handling will be 8.50. I knew this was way too high but the auction only said buyer pays s/h and it was my fault I did not ask first. I e-mailed this seller, letting him know I had won two auctions and asked if he could combine the items. His reply was a blunt NO! 8.50 for each for a total of 17.00! He said his packing house charges 5.00 to pack each item and to repack them would cost 5.00 extra so he could send them together for 23.00! He said he sells a lot of items (150 feedback-no negs) and does not have time to package the items. Well, I got pissed, told him to stuff it and that he was a ripoff artist. This really tickled his gizzard! I asked him to please leave me the appropriate feedback and I would do the same. (none so far) Since he had no negs, I suspect all his other buyers went along with it. How can this be? Does anyone think this is fair?
posted on September 6, 2001 01:28:26 PM
Seller Should have stated the fact that he uses a company to do all his packing and shipping and stated the cost up front.
From the sounds of the fee more then like is afraid there sales will drop off big time if he states a $5 packaging charge.
posted on September 6, 2001 02:01:04 PM
Hello ABCDO,
Obviously this particular suation seems to me that this "seller" is a sneaky shameless scoundrel, whom should be stoned to death with metal like packing peanuts.
posted on September 6, 2001 02:03:21 PM
First, since you bear some of the fault here, you should have just kept it non-emotional - told him you weren't going through with the deal due to the high cost of shipping. Suggested the deal just be called off, no feedback either way.
There isn't enough evidence to declare him a "ripoff artist". If he truly pays a company $5 to package a "small, lightweight" item, then a $8.50 charge (packing plus shipping) per item is actually logical. There certainly are sellers who have subcontracted this kind of service on a per-item cost basis.
However, if this is the case, then I would seriously question his business strategy, since that cost is somewhat higher than competitors for single items (and much higher for multiple items, discouraging multiple purchases when he should be trying to encourage it).
Of course, if he is lying about the whole thing, then he deserves abuse, but there is no reason to suspect that right now.
posted on September 6, 2001 02:33:05 PM
The post office auctions on ebay seem to do the same thing. I doubt ebay will consider it fee avoidance. Personally I see it as being pretty unfair, but now next time you will ask before bidding and avoid sellers like this.
I'm sorry that this happened to you though!
posted on September 6, 2001 03:42:24 PM
Thanks for your replies and I have taken them all in to account. The more I thought about this the more upset I got. Just because the seller does not have time, he uses a packing company. This is like his employee and he should pay them or state in his auctions that it will be an extra five bucks per item. I am now a deadbeat for I have e-mailed the seller and told him I will not pay. Now I'm wondering if I should leave feedback to warn other buyers.
posted on September 6, 2001 07:49:49 PM
the seller may feel he is losing money on the item as he did not expect them to fetch less than whatever he expects them to fetch,hence that extra 5.00
posted on September 6, 2001 09:12:00 PM
How is saying in the auction "buyer pays s/h" deceptive?
And how can any of us know if the seller was being delibertly deceptive? We don't even KNOW this person, so how in the heck can any of us say with certainty what his intent was?
Buyer bears ALL responsibility in this...from not asking the seller about the shipping BEFORE BIDDING to becoming a deadbeat.
Like it or not, a responsible buyer makes sure ALL terms are clear BEFORE bidding. Think of it like a retail contract...you would never sign a contract with BLANK spaces, so should a buyer NEVER bid until he is sure ALL the blanks have been filled in. If a dollar amount is NOT stated for shipping and handling either email to find out how much it will cost or don't bid!!
posted on September 7, 2001 05:26:43 AM
I completely agree with Amy. Not everyone on eBay is selling for the buyer's convenience. Not everyone selling on eBay is trying for a lowball. To this person, $8.00 may be perfectly reasonable for the widget in question.
This gets back to the old saw of sellers trying to impose their method of doing business onto other sellers. Not everyone has the same style, and any one method is not the "right" or "wrong" way to do it.
I'm not saying I agree that $8.00 is reasonable, and the person may very well be trying to ripoff. But we can't assume that going in.. The bidder should have asked beforehand, and since they didn't ask, they should suck it up and follow through on the deal.
posted on September 7, 2001 06:12:47 AM
I just don't see how you can say it's all the buyer's fault. Seller's have a responsibility to be honest and fair-no matter what. Just because a buyer doesn't email questions as they should, does not give the seller the right to put the screws to them.
posted on September 7, 2001 06:27:13 AM
Gouging on shipping is a topic that is vital to the growth of ebay, and each and every seller.
Consider the number of novice buyers who have bid, and been stung with excessive shipping. Most will leave and never return, thus depriving other sellers of business.
These hidden handling charge tactics, may be something you can blame the buyer for allowing, but I believe we sellers should be on the warpath with ebay to solve the confusion.
More than a year ago, Ebay said they were going to redefine the shipping definitions, and they still have not done so.
The shipping needs to be made clear, fair and idiot proof.
Clear so that new or naive buyers will not get gouged so easily.
Fair so that the sellers who are hurting Ebays reputation will be held accountable for their shady tactics.
Idiot proof so the idiots who find a way around Ebays rules will not be able to.
If the buyers and sellers both express concern to ebay, then maybe, after all this time, this constant source of problems (and disappearing bidders) will be addressed.
posted on September 7, 2001 06:45:42 AM
MRLATENITE: I totally agree with you. Many times I want to bid on several items from the same seller, but I ALWAYS ASK UP FRONT if they will combine items to save me $. My experience is that 99% of them will. I always know up front how much shipping/handling will be, even when combining items.
I know you realize this, but if you would have asked up front, I doubt you would have agreed to $8.50 for hipping/handling....
This seller is obviously a germ that needs to go away. I avoid these types like the plague. (sp?) Besides, with only 150 feedback, I highly doubt he pays someome $5 a shot to package an item. Not even near being a Powerseller. He/she is not folling anyone at all.
posted on September 7, 2001 09:04:48 AM
The seller has e-mailed me back and said that the deal is off. (no joke!) He said "don't lose any sleep over it because he's damn sure not going too". I think hwahwahwahwa hit the nail on the head. I got these items for half what they should sell for and he was just trying to make a profit. For those of you who think a seller can charge anything he wants, I say that's BS! "where does it stop?" Can he charge $20 a piece? How about $50? Maybe I should put his kids through college. The reason I did not ask about s/h charges is because I spotted the items in the last few minutes and decided to take a chance of the seller being honest. If he wants to pay someone to do his work for him, I'm not paying for it. Like we say down here in the south~ "I'm not sleeping with him"
posted on September 7, 2001 09:11:29 AM
abcdo: I know what you mean. Most of the time, I shop only the items that are ending within a few hours or so. I like to bid on items at the very end, its alot of fun. I do not though, bid on items that do not have the shpg amount listed, no matter how bad I want it.
Keep watching your feedback though, just in case this seller decides to neg you at the last minute.
posted on September 7, 2001 09:56:36 AMFor those of you who think a seller can charge anything he wants, I say that's BS! "where does it stop?" Can he charge $20 a piece? How about $50?
One word answer...yes
The seller has the right to set his shipping charges at whatever he wants to...you the buyer have the right to not bid if you don't want to pay the price he is asking.
Shipping amount not stated in the auction...ASK or don't bid. But stop the whining after the fact because you, the buyer, didn't act responsibly by not asking first.
There is nothing unfair about this seller. He has no legal or moral obligation to reduce the shipping amount because you bought more than one of his items. "Combining shipping" is a marketing strategy which is not mandatory for the merchant.
His auction terms of "buyer pays s/h is not unfair.
What IS UNFAIR is for the buyer to enter into the sale without finding out the FULL DETAILS of the sale and then to whine because the terms are not acceptable to the buyer.
posted on September 7, 2001 10:07:21 AM
The seller creates the description, and bears the responsibility for communicating the intended transaction to the buyer.
When this communication fails, such as occurred in the case under discussion, the transaction as subsequenty demanded by seller was not what buyer agreed to. If seller and buyer cannot negotiate a mutually agreeable transaction, the transaction should fail.
When this communication fails because seller deliberately intended it to fail, seller deserves sanction.
The bottom line point: buyers cannot enter into a binding situation which is not what they understood. Any business which expects to stick buyer with an unwanted transaction needs a new business plan.
posted on September 7, 2001 10:08:18 AM
And just how long would this kind of gouging go on if sellers were required to state the actual amount of shipping and handling per item, and whether or not they will combine packages? Not very long!
Honest sellers have no problem disclosing up front what the actual S&H is (or the information that will enable a buyer to figure it out, such as weight and zip code). IMO, it sure looks like deception when you find out AFTER the auction that shipping on a 3-ounce item is $8.00.
Yes, yes, the buyer should ask in advance. But why should a seller fail to disclose this vital information UP FRONT? New sellers may not know it's a big issue, but anybody who has been selling on eBay for any length of time knows that it is.
And just as a general sales tactic, it is to the seller's advantage to make his or her ad so complete and appealing that the buyer can't help but want to bid. Everything you force the buyer to do (other than click on "Bid Now" presents an opportunity for him to back out and go somewhere else.
Many buyers won't bother to email you for details that ought to be in the listing. How many sales are lost because of that? Lots of buyers routinely bid toward the end of the auction period, when emails have little chance of getting answered. Why make that impossible to do safely?
posted on September 7, 2001 11:45:12 AMOnly $8.95 shipping for this item!
The phenomenom you observed is that people are willing to pay a bit more for shipping, so long as:
1. it is stated clearly
2. it is not described as a "handling fee", but rather as the total shipping charge.
posted on September 7, 2001 11:56:20 AMamyThe seller has the right to set his shipping charges at whatever he wants to...
Not so according to eBay's rules.
Users may not use systems or techniques to circumvent eBay fees. Some examples include: Listings with low prices but unreasonably high shipping or handling costs
posted on September 7, 2001 01:20:17 PM
MRLATENIGHT said,
"Yeah it would still be there, just as strong.
Example in point: I recently sold a memory card for a camera. I researched completed auctions and there were NUMEROUS people listing identical memory cards and in HUGE 20 point font in their spewing of hype was things like: Only $8.95 shipping for this item!
I listed my auction and got 10% less (about $8 less) than they did for the EXACT same item, and in the item title, and of course description I put something like: LOW $3.50 PRIORITY SHIPPING...
============
I respectfully disagree that this is typical. If there were 50-100 of these nearly identical auctions, I can see why many buyers would not wade through each and every one of them to find the cheapest shipping. I might look at a dozen, and if the shipping is all the same (hadn't hit yours yet), I'd probably just accept that that was how much it would be and bid on the first one I came to.
If that's the kind of thing you're up against, then it would pay you richly to find a way of including "$3.95 shipping" in your TITLE, not just in the description, so that everybody who searches for memory cards will find yours with cheap shipping right there and readable in the title.
In my neck of the eBay woods, there might be four or five similar auctions (but rarely identical, as I deal in small antiques). It's become clear to me that buyers love a bargain, and they WILL go for the lower shipping if the item and terms are otherwise agreeable. In fact, I've had numerous comments in my feedback about what a pleasure it is to pay fair/low shipping and how the buyer will continue to search my auctions for that very reason.
IN GENERAL, substantially lower shipping is a big advantage to buyers, and they will look for it when it's fairly easy to find. They probably won't wade through 100 identical auctions looking for it, nor will it make a big impact if your shipping is $2.00 and everybody else's is $3.00.
But in this case, with shipping at about $8, it WOULD make a difference. And that's precisely why the seller didn't put that outrageous amount in the auction text.
posted on September 7, 2001 01:37:51 PM
Since items on ebay commonly sell for +/- 25% from the "real" value, for all kinds of strange reasons (bad luck, weird sellers, timing, outages, etc), its really hard to compare one auction and conclude anything valid.
I recently bought some software for $40 less than "normal" where the person had put the shipping at $15 more than "normal". Due to shipping? who knows? it also ended during the day (eastern time), so maybe it was just due to lack of bidders who could get there.
presents an opportunity for him to back out and go somewhere else.