horizonod
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posted on September 7, 2001 08:50:29 PM new
Explain this one.
I sent a buyer a package insured priority mail back in APRIL. He never received it. We waited the perscribed 30 days and filied a claim. The PO couldn't find it and still can't. The package was never scanned outside my state.
After MONTHS of waiting the PO is denying the claim.
We can prove we sent it and prove it was insured. It was handed over and placed in the care custody and control of the USPS. Then it disapeared.
We have proof we sent it and they have NOTHING to show it was delivered.
We're not talking about a dispute over breakage or improper handling. This package vanished while in the possesion of the USPS and they are denying the claim.
Could the fault be LESS in doubt?!
How do they get away with this and what should I do about it. We're talking over $125.00 item here!!
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peiklk
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posted on September 7, 2001 09:37:16 PM new
Check ebay and see if the USPS sold it. 
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wbbell
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posted on September 7, 2001 09:38:12 PM new
Do they give you reasons for denying the claim? Isn't there an appeals process?
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hwahwahwahwa
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posted on September 7, 2001 09:59:07 PM new
if your item is insured for 125,the insurance slip has a unique number and it is trackable by usps internally.
if delivered,then someone would have signed for it,if you need to pursue it,why not ask them what does their computer show??
there was one time a CNN speial where usps employess are feeling for something cash,hard objects while working and the hidden cameras were positioned in the corner
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horizonod
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posted on September 7, 2001 10:16:26 PM new
They haven't really given any reason. It's just denied.
As I said the package never left my state so it obviously never got to his state let alone his door. They have NOTHING to show the delivered it.
Get this though. Our postmater told us that ever since Ebay came along their claimas have gone through the roof. She blamed people (sellers) for fraudulently selling broken stuff then blaming the PO. Did they EVER consider that just MAYBE the increase in claims was a direct result of the increase in shipping because of Ebay.
Here's another one. After I repeatedly shot down all of her excuses about why the package never got there she blurted out that postal employees are people too and some of them have sticky fingers. I asked her where the package was last scanned since it has a unique barcode just for that purpose. I told her maybe they should invesagate the terminal where it was last or where it was headed. She then told me that the packages don't always get scanned at every stop and when pressed told me they didn't get scanned at MOST stops.
I don't give a DAMN if their claims are up. Maybe if their sticky fingered, non package scanning employees were more careful they would go down. All I care about is the ROCK HARD PROOF. We can prove we sent it but they can't prove they delivered it and in fact have said they didn't.
Is this a crock or what??
We spend around $150 a month on insurance alone and have for over 2 years. I have a mind to demand a full refund for all insurance we've EVER paid for based on the newly discovered fact that it's worthless.
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outoftheblue
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posted on September 7, 2001 10:48:27 PM new
>>"USPS Insurance RIPOFF!!"<<
Having to pay for USPS insurance is a ripoff!
We pay to have them ship the package and pay them some more to protect ourselves from their incompetence. What a con job!
[ edited by outoftheblue on Sep 7, 2001 10:49 PM ]
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deco100
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posted on September 8, 2001 06:36:10 AM new
This is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG but I don't see what you can do about it except follow up the chain of command, postmaster to district manager and so forth and/or hire an expensive lawyer.
I filed a claim for $10 and they turned me down. They said it wasn't packed good enough.The box was bashed in like it had been run over. How do you pack good enough to resist that? Pack in steel so they can charge a fortune for the weight?
I had 2 people who had breakage but they didn't want to file claims as they wanted to keep the items. Both items were metal, one a bank and the other a sword. How do you break metal objects? Throw them out of the airplane?
Of course they have more breakage, they have 10 times the packages from on-line sales. I don't think that the percentage of scamming is any higher because of ebay.
If I wasn't such a small seller and it wasn't so inconvenient I would switch over to UPS or Fed Express. Maybe that's what we all need to do, hit them in their pocketbook! But then, they sure wouldn't have much to auction off on ebay!
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packer
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posted on September 8, 2001 09:47:57 AM new
I agree and I work for the Post Office.
I think their insurance is a HUGE RIPOFF.
I've been trying to figure out for weeks how to self-insure and make the buyer feel like their not getting RIPPED OFF by me.
It is truely a waste of a $1.10 to insure something for less then $50.00.
The hoops they make you jump through for a measely $10.00 claim is just not worth it.
I need some good language in my EOA for self-insurance...anyone got any ideas?
packer
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moonmem-07
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posted on September 8, 2001 09:51:59 AM new
What was their reason for denying the claim? I think they have to give you one. You will need to go thru the appeals process. It can be very long. It took me over a year to get a claim straightened out where they chipped a porcelain doll.
I just got done dealing with UPS over some Barbie dolls they smashed. That was even a bigger mess! I think because it was over $100 they denied it. I think it is straightened out now (knock on wood) but they questioned the value of the dolls. It seems to me the value is what the customer paid. I'm not getting the whole total back but pretty close.
I don't understand what excuse they could use if an insured package is lost?
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violetta
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posted on September 8, 2001 10:42:48 AM new
Near the bottom of this USPS page is the address which you can appeal the claim denial to.
http://new.usps.com/cgi-bin/uspsbv/scripts/content.jsp?D=24915
(They used to also include the address of who to appeal to if denied again, but I can't find it now. It was an external agency.)
Violetta
(Not known by this nickname anywhere but here.)
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horizonod
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posted on September 8, 2001 11:03:30 AM new
PACKER.
Just put " sent via priority mail (or whatever)insured". You don't have to tell them you are self insuring. The proof is in the pudding. If you have a loss and you self insure pay it promptly and it will eventually show up in your feedback.
Self insuring is not a problem as long as the self that is insurring is fair. I know we would be WAY ahead if we insurred ourselves even thought the PO does seem to "lose" an inordinate amount of stuff.
I see alot of complaints about the PO about every aspect of their service. Has anybody ever thought about a class action suit. It could wake them up and make them re-evaluate their assine policies.
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loggia
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posted on September 8, 2001 11:38:17 AM new
Contact your local USPS Consumer Affairs Office. You can find your office at this link
http://www.usps.com/ncsc/locators/find-cam.html
Good luck.
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horizonod
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posted on September 8, 2001 12:06:50 PM new
I intend to pursue it but since the PO has denied an emenently undefensable loss and they won't reimmburse me for my time jumping through their hoops I thought I might just file against them in small claims court to prove a point and possibly get some punative damages to teach them a lesson and pay for my time.
The last time we filed a claim they eventually paid it but DID NOT reimmburse us the $21+ shipping, only the amount of the insurred item. We had to pay the shipping twice!!
Maybe I'll throw that one in too just for good measure.
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packer
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posted on September 8, 2001 12:25:27 PM new
OH RIGHT!
You against the BIG BOYS!
packer
by-the-way......Good Luck!
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zeeesdreams
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posted on September 8, 2001 12:51:01 PM new
I actually love my local post office! I've had 2 items that were shipped to me arrived smashed to pieces { extemely poor packing jobs -- one person even made one makeshift box out of two boxes -- taped them together -- for a glass item. } All I had to do in both cases was bring my insurance slip in, fill out a form and the fellow hands me cash -- nice and simple! Of course I live in a town of about 1000 and our post office only has 2 employees that work in the office { plus they know me since I also sell. } I just love small towns.  }
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upic
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posted on September 8, 2001 06:07:06 PM new
Or you have the option of a private carrier. We charge just .60 cents per $100 and guarantee claims paid in 5-7 workdays without fail. We NEVER deny USPS claims and we have been doing this for 12 years.
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Microbes
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posted on September 8, 2001 06:49:23 PM new
charge just .60 cents per $100 and guarantee claims paid in 5-7 workdays without fail. We NEVER deny USPS claims and we have been doing this for 12 years.
And make a decent profit, no doubt. (don't take that the wrong way, you are suppose to make a decent profit)
I always did have to wonder about USPS getting $1.10 for $50 worth of insurance when UPS includes the first $100 at no extra charge and only gets 35 cents a $100 above that.
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 9, 2001 12:38:38 AM new
Can you prove it was not delivered? That's what delivery confirmation is for. I'm sure that's why the PO is not covering the loss.
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deco100
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posted on September 9, 2001 03:15:00 AM new
Hi Upic! I just got your email and I'll be going with you, but that's just half the problem!
We shouldn't have to fight over lost or broken items when we've taken the time (and money) to pack good and then paid for shipping and insurance!
My 2 plates last week were packed in bubble wrap and then put in foam holders and then boxed with newspaper and pellets and then taken for inspection by the postmaster (value of each $150, postage $10 each and $3 each insurance. She assured me that if there was damage she would back up the claim.
Can you say I'm getting obsessive? Can you say nuisance?
Now someone said UPS is just as bad? But do they have the same rate of loss and breakage?
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horizonod
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posted on September 9, 2001 07:21:13 AM new
Hey quickdraw. Been awhile.
Why should I pay extra for delivery confirmation when I paid for insured delivery? When I get an insured package I have to sign for it and it is scanned.
This particular package was sent from Indiana to New Jersey and because the recipient was in law enforcement and had some pull with the PO he had THEM backtrack it and it never left Indiana according to their system. Why should I have to prove it wasn't delivered? They've already said that.
Since my receipt PROVES I sent it and insured it, shouldn't THEY have to prove it WAS delivered rather than me proving it wasn't?
Besides it's a lead pipe cinch the PO had it last because they certainly wouldn't allow a person to insure a package and then walk away from the counter with it, would they?
They're just being pricky. Many people will drop a claim rather than go through the hassle.
As far a suing the "big guy" goes, in small claims it's not like superior court, you state your case and the judge decides what's fair.
It isn't fair.
Neither is this:
A shipper pays a fee to have the PO DELIVER a package but if he wants to make sure they do what he paid them for he has to pay extra for delivery confirmation. Then if it doesn't get there you can prove it but that doesn't do you any good if you didn't spend yet more money for insurance.
What other business can operate like that?
Pay them to do my job then pay them extra to make sure they do their job then pay them extra again so that if they didn't do the job you paid them to do, you don't lose.
It's ludicrous!!!!!!!!! Can somebody define "racketeering" for me? The PO certainly has a racket going.
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minx47
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posted on September 9, 2001 07:27:11 AM new
Why am I not surprised at this??? After hearing all of the horror stories about the USPS insurance I wouldn't touch them.......I have a friend that shipped a very valuable musical instrument that was "insured" and spent months and months fighting them. Last I knew she was still checking out the USPS ebay user ID's to see if it showed up. Maybe I am wrong here, but between the sticky fingers and the new discovery of Ebay selling by the USPS...our packages don't have a chance.
I signed up for Upic and was impressed...just have not listed enough lately to justify the purchase amount yet......but when we do get back into heavy selling again I will use a private insurer , probably UPIC.
USPS can shove their insurance where the sun doesn't shine....There I feel better!!!!!!
Not Minx on Ebay!
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furkidmom
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posted on September 9, 2001 09:47:21 AM new
Someone had asked why pay for Delivery Confirmation? I got burned just once, well almost burned and then 2 times after that. A woman said she was on vacation when her flatware was delivered to her job. (She first said she never received it at all, but DC proved it was delivered to the addy she gave me) It cost me $11.00 to send that set. She said she finally found it, opened it at work, and over 3/4 of it was missing! She wanted the rest of the set!! I wrote to her and told her was the package tampered with? Perhaps someone at work took out most of the set. She said, "no it was wrapped tightly, no seals broken. You just forgot to send the whole set." I asked her if I forgot to send the whole set and it goes by weight, how come the postage is $11.00 then?. Told her I would investigate for Postal Fraud on her end. Never heard from her again and got flowing feedback. 2 other times people claimed to have never gotten their package, not realizing I could check on-line with DC that it was delivered to their post office. When I gave them the official "delivered blurb" copied and pasted from the usps site, they "magically " found the package. There are people out there going for double dips....I take all the protection I can just to be on the safe side. With usps insurance, I copy the insurance slip for my records, send the person the original, tell them to take the package and wrappings and product which the post office will keep, and they will get paid. Never had a problem with this.
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quickdraw29
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posted on September 9, 2001 07:05:22 PM new
horizonod,
You shouldn't need delivery confirmation since insurance requires a signature, but now as you see if you wanted to take this to the next level the burden of proof is on your shoulders, and the PO can lie and say "yes we delivered it", and they don't have to provide the signature of delivery to win the case.
Another good reason to ship Fedex or UPS where delivery tracking and insurance are included in the price and sometimes cheaper than USPS.
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badcompany
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posted on September 10, 2001 01:32:37 PM new
Quickdraw29 and others: I live in NY state and I can tell you that the post office has never asked us to sign for insured packages! Never! Ever! Recently, the post office even left a piece of certified mail in my mail box. This was a first. I contacted the person who paid for the certified mailing and told them they should demand their money back. As for UPS, sometimes they ring the doorbell and other times they simply leave packages out on a stoop in full view of the neighborhood. I also get packages left on my stoop that are really for my neighbors (some drivers are rushing and deliver packages to the wrong numerical addresses; my neighbors are happy that I am honest...).
Also, the USPS packages insured for up to $50 cannot be tracked. I have had breakage problems with the USPS and with UPS. I overwrap and then cross my fingers and pray basically.
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