posted on October 17, 2001 04:30:03 AM new
I'm going to try to make this supremely long story as short as possible because time's running short and I really need some advice here.
I sold a high-dollar item (over $1500) on eBay and the Buyer was unhappy with it. I did not misrepresent the item in any way on my auction. His major complaint was that the item "reeked of cigarette smoke"; however, in my defense, nowhere in my auction did I state the piece was from a smoke-free environment. It's a computer-type piece, BTW, not anything made of cloth.
Also, in my auction I did state that all sales were final.
This guy wants his money back and is in the process of filing complaints through eBay AND PayPal, and he states that he is going to perform a charge-back once his credit card statement arrives.
I've been an active eBay member for about a year now, and have a solid positive feedback rating. Never have I had any complaints or issues. So I'm not familiar with this.
Because of the situation and details involved, at this point I really don't want to refund the money... but am I protected if it does state on my auction that all sales are final?
And... (putting on flame-retardant suit) do you guys think I should refund his money (losting $183 in the process)?
posted on October 17, 2001 05:28:03 AM new
Whether you are "protected" depends on credit card chargeback rules, you'll have to investigate that with paypal and such.
What is this item, by the way? would a strong odor interfere with its functionality?
Did you sell it as "new" or "used"? I think if you sold it as "used" then clearly an acquired odor (as long as it was still functional) would be OK. If it were "new", new items should come odor free - even though you don't state smoke-free, its at the very least expected of "new" merchandise.
posted on October 17, 2001 05:32:43 AM new
I sold the item (clearly) as "used" and a cigarette odor would not interfere with its ability to perform. It's actually a little difficult to explain *exactly* what it is, but it's a piece of equipment used for recording music via computer. It retails for about $2000 new.
The item was checked for functionality prior to list and it was fine.
posted on October 17, 2001 05:41:01 AM new
Actually, I didn't "know" that it reeked. I am taking the buyer's word for it because we DO smoke; however, I personally didn't detect any odor from the item.
posted on October 17, 2001 07:50:17 AM new
You'll have to make your final decision based on your evaluation of the likelihood of a successful chargeback (will they pursue it, and if, so, will they be successful) - depending on that, you can choose to offer a full refund, partial refund, or none.
Morally, however, I don't think you've done anything wrong here. The item is as described and functional. Given that 30% or so of people smoke, when you buy *used* items, either you ask in advance if its an issue or you "pays your money and you takes your chances". Frankly, its one of the reasons I pay less at ebay than I would in "hands on" venues, since there is always that chance for disappointment - either the item never arrives, or is isn't "as imagined" by me.
There is a high probability that in a few days the smell will greatly diminish...I've got a feeling this is the classic "open the box and out comes the smell" factor...some of which comes from the packageing and box itself, and that will completely go away as those materials are discarded.
posted on October 17, 2001 08:28:14 AM newActually, I didn't "know" that it reeked
People who smoke rarely truly recognize the smell (I smoke but am sensitive to the smell so I can instantly tell).
You might wish to take a bit more effort w/your ebay items since you do smoke. Make sure they are well aired out & try to refrain from smoking in the area where you keep your items..and especially where you keep your packing material. Cardboard & peanuts love to absorb the odor.
posted on October 17, 2001 09:27:34 AM new
some equipments are sensitive to odor and if it jeopardises performance,this is good cause for return.
buyer can state in chargeback the odour is too much for it to function well in the environment,he could have a smoke free room where there are other sensitive expensive instruments.
hydorcarbon such as charcoal is very good at ridding odor.
anyway,buyer can only do chargeback if he returns his item first,one cannot chargeback and continue to have the item in possession.
it is up to you if you would accept the return-
you can negotiate with him and offer a partial refund or pay for any expenses in ridding the odor.
or you can just say sold as is and watch out when he tried to return it,do not accept the return.
his chargeback would not work if he cannot prove he has returned the item and you signed for it.
some folks are very sensitive to smoke odor,
posted on October 17, 2001 10:53:57 AM new
Maybe the brainiacs at ebay who are ALWAYS looking for some "new improvement" to make auctions more difficult, could borrow from the underwear rules and require that EVERYTHING coming from a smoking home; one with cats; ones with cooks who like to use garlic; ones with hubbys with "gas problems"; and ones living within 3 miles of any sewage treatment plants MUST clean and treat ALL items with Channel #5 before packing & shipping!
posted on October 17, 2001 10:55:50 AM new
I'm allergic to perfume. I'm going to have to ask for a refund, unless you take back the item and blow smoke all over it.
posted on October 17, 2001 11:08:51 AM new
KIRK: Would you be happy if I just shipped your item packed with an old 5 cent Swisher Sweet mixed in with the peanuts....that should accomplish it without extra shipping?
posted on October 17, 2001 11:18:15 AM new
I don't understand why you should be out 183.00, could you explain?
I don't think the buyers reason for wanting a refund is a fair one & should not cost you even one cent. (other than the listing fee)
He should pay return postage & you should file for FVF with eBay.
I feel that for 1500.00 the buyer will not just back off. Maybe better to get the whole thing over with on your terms since I don't see where you did anything wrong, just do not refund before you receive the item.
posted on October 17, 2001 02:30:36 PM new
My losing $183 on this auction isn't the buyer's fault... and I knew how much I'd spend prior to listing. Of course, I didn't anticipate the problems.
I paid for shipping ($25), plus three PayPal transactions in trying to get this amount from the buyer's credit card into my bank account (over $100... that whole PayPal thing was a mess in itself), plus the $30 listing fee.
To update, he's filed a Square Trade form and I've returned it. I'm still not very willing to offer a refund, but it may come to that.
I especially liked the part where he stated that I didn't mention it came from a smoke-infested environment.
posted on October 17, 2001 03:06:43 PM new
Officially, paypal doesn't get involved in "quality of merchandise" claims, but they explicitly exclude this claim from coverage by their seller protection program, so...who knows! And the seller could always go directly through his credit card issuer to initiate a chargeback.
Do you have a "restocking fee" clause in your TOS that covers such non-hardware-defect returns? It may not help prevent these unjustified returns, but it will at least give you a good basis for narrowing the debate and the loss of profit.
As an ex-smoker, I can tell you that your sense of smell is pretty much dead compared to the non-smoker. This stench is a significant problem, but it's not a hardware defect per se; a refund is, in theory, not justified because the buyer should have asked about this. (I certainly understand why you didn't mention the fact that it comes from a smoker environment: this would definitely lower the bidding pool.)
posted on October 17, 2001 04:19:19 PM new
kcbluegal, this sounds like an unpleasant situation. One thing you might want to consider. If the buyer does go through with the charge back, you could be out both the item AND the money. Consider offering a refund IF the buyer returns the item (undamaged of course). At least this way you will only be out the fees. Sometimes it's better to cut your losses. Good luck.
posted on October 17, 2001 05:07:58 PM newkcbluegal~
Please do not take this wrong ...
I am a non smoker. If I purchased an item for that amount of money and it had a strong cigarette smoke smell I, too, would want to return it. I am very sensitive to the smell ... it drives me crazy!
You probably are not even aware the item has an odor because you are used to it, like people who work in a hospital do not notice that smell, either.
Please read my thread entitled Prayers Needed to see what cigarette smoking has done to my famiy. It is a nightmare you cannot awake from.
posted on October 17, 2001 06:13:27 PM new
if you decide not to refund clean out your paypal account and close it now
if a chargeback is done paypal has no interest in your side of the story or if you are right or wrong they will ristrict your account and lock your access to any funds in it . and they will not allow you to close it untill the matter is resolved
I would not refund if I were you but beware of pay pal you may want to look at some of the posts on the pay pal board to see how sorry a service the really are.
spock here......
Live long and Prosper
