posted on March 27, 2002 04:32:42 AM
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I was defrauded via Ebay just like many others
waidz176 (1) (view author's auctions)
3:59am March 27, 2002
3/6/2002 A person using the username sellingphones
and email address [email protected] advertised a few Nokia
8910
cell phones on the auction site ebay.com.au - I emailed him to ask him
what his reserve price as I was interested. He then went on to ask me what
I could offer as a buy out price and I said $400 - he said that he had a
few phones. I then requested 2 phones at AUD$800 for both. He told me to
wire the money through Western Union and he would send the phones once I
sent the money.
3/7/2002 I sent the money via Western Union.Unfortunately I was told by
the Western Union representative that he could only get the money out of
Western Union if I provided him with the MTCN (Money Transfer Control)
number. I believed her and thus thought that once I got the phones I would
give him the number. A day later I discovered that the money was withdrawn
and he no longer replies to my email enquiries. The details he provided
for the wire transfer is as follows : Full name : Toroplean Vasile
Cornel , Address :Republicii , no 1 , City : Rm-Valcea , State : Valcea ,
Zip : 1000 , Country : Romania .
This is blatant fraud and I am very upset that Ebay and Western Union do
not have any additional security measures in place and obviously do not
thouroughly verify the identification of the person collecting the money.
I am a victim of this type of fraud and have since discovered that various
people on the internet having been defrauded in a similar manner via Ebay.
I realise that I am not covered by Ebays fraud protection policy but am
still prepared to create a website to warn people against buying and
selling via auction sites such as Ebay. I intend to start a website to warn people against trading on ebay and rather use an auction site that is bigger on customer service and actually helping people. People are being defrauded by these criminals but nothing is being
done by it. He has struck again with the userid's nokiaseller 1 and nokiaseller 2 and has fleeced many other people as I have found. All Ebay has done is send very rigid letters of supposed pity but that's it. I am not a happy ebayer at all - after my last auctions I am going elsewhere.
posted on March 27, 2002 05:14:42 AM
Tomwiii thanks for you very frank reply. Yes I do realise that I should have known better. But <b>news flash</b> not everyone is as internet-fraud-savvy as you are. I didn't know the extent of internet fraud - nor did I know that Romania was a hot bed for fraud of this nature. I do not blame ebay entirely - I just think that they could do more to warn their members, and also to better verify people that sign up as sellers , and when a complaint is made to actually DO something about it, especially if it's common. Ebay only allows you to sell using a free email account if you provide them with credit card details - which means that the perpetrator obviously is using fraudulent/stolen credit card details as well which is even worse than merely fleecing a dumb internet user of $800.
I am much more educated on the matter now - but just like I was - there is still thousands of people that aren't. I emailed others that bidded on his other fraudulent ads on ebay and they too were just as naive as I was.
So Tomwii - before you go knocking people with your sarcasm - try to see it from another perspective.
posted on March 27, 2002 05:33:52 AM
romania,russia,indonesia,malaysia are some of the countries on the black list.amzn no longer accpet credit card transaction from malaysia/
in the states,you have to show your id and the money transfer control number to withdraw the money,i dont think western union has bent its rule for romania,you should report this to western union?
or this seller is cosy with the local western union office and managed to get the money without the number??
i agree,nobody knows everything.some of these countries could have these electronic goods thru pirating ,in the north sea of china,commerical freighters carrying electronic goods are escorted by their nation's navy ship.if you are a commercial freight ship carrying loads of nokia,cannon,sony etc and unescorted,you are left to fend for yourself from the chinese pirates rumored to be chinese navy staff looking for a few bucks to subsidise their rice diet.
i also agree ebay can afford to be more selective in accepting sellers on its sites
posted on March 27, 2002 05:44:43 AM
I agree with you about ebay having sellers from this country. When someone registers in ebay and red flag should go up so ebay knows that they are there. I doubt if ebay knows where their sellers are from because it is so large With all the phone fraud in the US one would think twice about buying one from a foreign country. We had someone get a bill for $9,000 because he ordered a cell phone just to have it handy when his wife had a baby. First month the bill was $30.00 and they never made a call. So they cancelled it and next came that last bill. When they checked into it someone from Brooklyn had the phone number also. Now, who is stuck with that bill. Remember Fraud is running rampant, you need to watch and be cautious all the time.
posted on March 27, 2002 06:00:15 AM
I am sorry this happened to you.
But tomwiii is right. And you don't have to be an internet guru to know you should practice caveat emptor in purchases, whether on ebay, from newspapers or at a local B&M store.
If you buy electronics from a flea market & it doesn't work, don't be surprised to not see the vendor there next month. And it's doubtful the flea market organizer is going to do much to help you out.
Like it or not, you have to consider ebay is a big international flea market open to anyone with a phone line and you have to do your homework before making purchase.
Have you looked into ebay insurance? Can you recover some of the money this way? In the future, you might consider purchasing from people who take CC, then you atleast might have some recourse thru a chargeback.
Sorry but there's no way that ebay can "frisk" sellers as they come through the door to make sure they are 100% legit. Just think about how people scream if ebay asks for any more personal identification information (SS#, Checking Account#) to "verify" them. It's a double edge sword. Buyers want ebay to know more about their sellers but sellers get upset if they are required to give more personal information. It's a damned if you do, damned it you don't situation.
I am going to be harsh also. It doesn't require internet knowledge to know that Romania and other former Soviet-controlled nations are not places to send money, it requires that an individual PAID ATTENTION over the last few years. The information has been EVERYWHERE since the break up. News Programs, Newspapers, News Expose shows, internet boards, radio, EVERYWHERE. So, turn off MTV, put down DC Comic #4001 Superman is reborn for the umpteenth time, climb out from behind your PlayStation 2 and Pay Attention to this world. I have no sympathy for those who don't.
posted on March 27, 2002 06:51:58 AM
i think most of us at one time or another,can be swayed with CHEAP PRICE.
when we need an item and find one which is too good to be true,we could become too trusting.
i buy many refurbished/remanufactured items from damark intl,i dont know if they are still around,but they carry all the name brands and prices are reasonable.
for tools of trade in cyber selling,i trust COMP USA which is not too far from me.
posted on March 27, 2002 08:53:43 AM
<<i trust COMP USA which is not too far from me.>>
Just a little philosophical thought. I have noticed an evolution in my buying habits.
The internet is great for items that are hard to find locally, a book, a cd, a barbie cheerleader doll of your college for your your niece (grin), etc.
But, I have noticed that I am migrating to local companies for more common purchases. I want to be able to look people in the eye if I have a problem.
Fortunately, I sell one-of-a-kind items, so my business can thrive on the internet/mail order.
posted on March 27, 2002 08:56:14 AM
I don't understand why ebay is getting any of the blame in this. These were not purchased through ebay, they were purchased off ebay in a private transaction. You can't even use ebay insurance because this is considered fee avoidance isn't it?
If I am paying $400.00 for an item, I will be holding it in my hands first. Of course, $400.00 is a lot of money to me.
posted on March 27, 2002 08:57:23 AM
<I was told by
the Western Union representative that he could only get the money out of
Western Union if I provided him with the MTCN (Money Transfer Control)
number. I believed her and thus thought that once I got the phones I would
give him the number. A day later I discovered that the money was withdrawn >
This is true when I receive money via Western Union. If you didn't send the number, talk to Western Union. Be very persistant. Heck, you can even picket that business if you get no satisfaction.
posted on March 27, 2002 09:11:55 AM
While we all can sympathize with the victim of a fraud, I for one will not fall for this "blame everyone else" mentality.
"Caveat emptor" means, buyer beware, and is common sense advice for any deal that seems particularly sweet.
It is a sad fact that American consumers seem to respond to price since that is what American Corporations use to sell. Of course, anyone with an ounce of common sense looks beyond the price to issues such as trust, quality, reliability, durability and the like, but the average person just goes on price.
If it is the cheapest, that's the one I want, there's nothing else important.
Look how many buyers never read auction descriptions, or details about shipping costs. How else could all the handling charge scams work on ebay!
If I make a mistake, it is MY mistake and nobody elses.
This buyer made a mistake, and while ebay has lots of faults and is an easy target, it is the wrong one.
My first rule of thumb is simple: "Know who you are buying from."
My second rule of thumb: "The cheapest price is not always the best price."
My third rule of thumb: "Never send funds to anyone for any reason via Western Union."
posted on March 27, 2002 09:30:44 AM
I've heard this same type of story over and over again. Someone from Romania ask a buyer to wire money to them via Western Union and that's the last they see of their money and never receive their items.
Rather than warn people about Ebay. Warn people to be careful and use common sense!
Here's a mantra for Ebay buyers. Repeat it 1000 times.
READ FEEDBACK BEFORE BIDDING....READ FEEDBACK BEFORE BIDDING....READ FEEDBACK BEFORE BIDDING....IF YOU GET RIPPED OFF NEG THE JERK....IF YOU GET RIPPED OFF NEG THE JERK....IF YOU GET RIPPED OFF NEG THE JERK!
posted on March 27, 2002 10:12:05 AM
>>"you can even picket that business if you get no satisfaction"<<
Believe it or not, that works! I know some people who picketed a car lot because they sold them a car that had been wrecked. It was less than a couple of hours before the company caved in and let them out of the deal. "AS IS" doesn't mean anything if you are persistant.
posted on March 27, 2002 10:41:02 AM
the buyer bot it off ebay,he contacted the seller and asked if he has more to sell,so there is no ebay insurance.
buyer also cannot neg the seller as only high bidder can do so.
if he emails every future bidder of seller auctions and warn them,he could be interrupting ebay operations and get suspended.
may be use a different id and trick him in selling you the same items,pay with credit card and then do a chargeback/
does he accept credit card ,or how about billpoint??
posted on March 27, 2002 10:42:32 AM
thats it,buy from him again and use your cc .
then tell your cc company that you have paid him twice-once with western union and once with cc but he only shipped once,so CHARGEBACK TIME!!!!!!!!!
posted on March 27, 2002 11:04:09 AM
"does he accept credit card ,or how about billpoint??"
Get real! Chargebacks? The scam artist will make sure that they will cover their own butt.
As much as I do not like to see anyone taken, however to blame ebay or W.U. for something that did not even take place on their site, all I can say is give your head a shake!
"after my last auctions I am going elsewhere."
That will not help you if you do something this crazy anywhere else.
Best to learn from YOUR mistake and move on.
"start a website to warn people against trading on ebay and rather use an auction site that is bigger on customer service and actually helping people."
Please be sure to state that this deal was done off ebay, be honest about it!
posted on March 27, 2002 02:17:02 PM
Here are some things you can do if you were scammed. (Fleeced)
1. Contact Ebay give them all the necessary information regarding the event, lot order, order number. Then once ebay contacts you back save the email.
2. If Western Union is involved then contact them and give them all the necessary information. Keep records of all correspondance.
3. Contact the FBI Internet Fraud agency.
http://www1.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp
The Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC) is a partnership between the Federal Bureau of Investigation (FBI) and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C
Make a official complaint. Again keep all records of emails.
Once the IFCC is involved they will contact you and request you to make an official complaint with Romania or any other country and will request all emails etc.. that are related to this crime.
It takes time for these complaints to go through so be patient.
I would also recommend that you keep an eye out for other gullible users and warn them.
For myself I have contacted other potential scams and warned them that I was on to them. I then contacted UBID and warned them of this possible scam. Here also I kepted records of my contact with UBID. Sooner or later UBID and EBAY will have to take action.
Once the FBI is involved then it becomes a legal problem. It helps them if you have alrady contacted Western Union and EBAY or UBID.
This is becoming a major problem and sooner or later EBAY, UBID and other auction sites will be negatively affectedj to the point where they will have to offer a solution. It is to their benefit to do so.
For myself it doesn't matter whether EBAY considers me gullible or not. They are offering a service and if I get bit one time you can surely believe I will be much more relucted to trust their service.
posted on March 27, 2002 02:28:49 PMI realise that I am not covered by Ebays fraud protection policy but am still prepared to create a website to warn people against buying and selling via auction sites such as Ebay.
You made an 'off eBay' purchase yet you still blame eBay? Have you plans to also put up a 'grip site' against your ISP that allowed you to make this encounter?
Losing money isn't fun, but placing blame on anyone other than yourself and the Romanian scam artist is living in denial.
If it will ease your pain to set up a 'gripe site' go ahead, but accepting your responsibility would be smarter. I never get my information from 'gripe sites.' That makes a much sense as contacting a woman's ex-husband for character references... you can be sure on getting a one sided story.
posted on March 27, 2002 03:17:01 PM
if he is selling on australia ebay and the author of this thread is not the high bidder,then did the seller ship to the high bidder??
400 us dollars for 2 nokia phones,is that below wholesale?does this seller have the merchandise ??
posted on March 27, 2002 07:52:03 PM
I realize this is a jolly session of "beat up the OP" but I think most of y'all are ignoring the fact that Western Union (if what s/he is saying is true) appears to have some culpability here.
I pay attention to the world, but there was a time when I didn't know about scams originating from Romania and other places. I've been on the Internet since Hector was a pup, but there was a time when I didn't know that some bad people get their jollies causing trouble for other people who don't deserve it. I learned it the hard way. To mock people who are not as far along the learning curve as you is, I think, a bit unkind.
posted on March 27, 2002 07:55:38 PM
For a transaction over $100 going out of the country, I am going to insist on paying with a credit card. Buyers have ultimate protection this way. I was scammed on a cc transaction recently (I have a merchant account) and fortunately it was only $12 - It was a stolen credit card. I was out, and that was that. At least with that protection, it gives you fewer worries. And I agree with the others, you don't have to be internet savy to know Romania is a bad place to send your money. If you don't know that, you should reconsider doing business on the internet because there are a lot of other little scams that will try to remove your money from you. Here is a word of advice. If you get an email from some guy in Nigeria about money laundering, hit the delete button. He promises you a lot of money, but you will lose money instead...
posted on March 27, 2002 08:08:56 PM
To those of you who think I was gullible and naive to have fallen for this scam - believe me I know that I was - it doesn't take any amount of acidic comments to tell me that. I don't blame Ebay - I am not saying that because of my naivety they should pay. I just think that if fraud is such a huge thing and the perpetrators catch their victims via ebay - and it's a known issues - and the FBI attest to investigating various similar cases - then they should have stricter security measures when allowing people to place ads from these countries if they are known fraud hotbeds. If it's known that sellerx is from Bucharest and is using a yahoo email address - then he has obviously verified a credit card to be allowed to sell. If this same seller is suspected of being the scammer then quite obviously he used a fraudulent credit card. Do you mean to tell me that Ebay can't trace the details he is using to assist an Ebayer. Even if I was fleeced on this one transaction, I have been both buyer and seller on quite a few other auctions on Ebay and as such would still like to be afforded the simple courtesy of acknowledgement that it is a scam - they are aware of it and something is being done about it. Yes it took place outside of Ebay in my case - but it was on Ebay where he advertised the fraudulent auction and many auctions thereafter. He has done this to 3 people in 2 months on Ebay alone that I know of - are you people saying that Ebay should take any action because the transactions happened outside of ebay ? So what - they shoud allow these guys to auction vaporware just because the victims were gullible enough to complete transactions outside of ebay ? Once again I reiterate that I was naive enough to believe that there were honest people on Ebay. Persecute me for my false belief that man is inherently good. Yes I knew about credit card fraud and other types of fraud - but you know - you never do think it will happen to you until it does. And then suddenly you know everything there is to know about internet fraud - which is where I find myself. Thank you to those who have showed some empathy/sympathy/pity - to those who can only ridicule me - I'm sure it makes you feel better and if it does - good for you.
posted on March 27, 2002 08:10:18 PM
i was fleeced by indonesians using stolen us cc cards ,claiming they are in singapore .
it is not possible to know it all,
i just bot a used car from local car dealer,they wont fix the minor problems with the car but managed to fleece me out of 300 dollars for 3 months/3000 miles drive train warranty.
the salesman who speak broken english keeps saying i am just a salesman,i am not a service mechanic.well, of course i should know,i read all about used car salesman??
posted on March 27, 2002 08:13:39 PM
Yesterday I got a chargeback on a CC someone used to purchase an item from my website and it is just under $60. I don't know as yet if it was a stolen credit card and it wasn't overseas.
So no, we are not immune from fraud but some countries should raise the alert flag.
Sorry if you thought I was mocking anyone as I had no intention of doing so. Someone was kind enough to alert me that tomwiii asked for a violin so I complied.
posted on March 27, 2002 08:16:31 PM
i still think ebay can do a better job - what about all these dealers who took off with 1/2 million without shipping??
what is to prevent some of us to call it quit and for one last fling,download all our past item description and photos and have a big blast on ebay,raking in five figures and disappear??
justthink many of us have taken many photos in the past years.
who is to know we dont have the goods??
