posted on June 4, 2002 05:31:38 PM
It must be the full moon. They're out in force again. We put up a souvenir plate from Le Sueur Center Minnesota, a fairly scarce and decidedly breakable item. The winning bidder sent us what she decided she wanted to pay for shipping and refused to pay for insurance. The problem here is that our auction description reads very clearly that we do not ship without insurance and we do not renegotiate shipping terms or charges.When we advised the bidder that she owed us another $1.10 before we could ship, she advised us to reconsider. We reminded her that when she bid, she agreed to abide by our terms of sale (language also in our auction description). We know from bitter experience that even when people say they don't want insurance, they demand a full refund if the item arrives broken or damaged and they will neg and go to Safe Harbor if they don't get reimbursed. This is not an item we could replace as it is about 100 years old. We notified her that after 10 days we would report only partial payment to eBay, and 10 days after that file a non-paying bidder so that we could relist. This is the most flagrantly uncooperative bidder we have had in a long time. Has anyone else experienced this? If so, how did eBay handle it? Thanks, Joan & Dale
posted on June 4, 2002 05:57:41 PM
I've had many customers like this and they can be very rude and uncoopertaive. They don't care if they get a negative, they are simply out to get satisfaction that either they get their way or you simply don't get their money. Don't waste time with these people, they will argue until you are blue in the face.
Other than wait for a few non-pay warnings to suspend, ebay does nothing.
Sometimes I negotiate with the buyer and say I can meet their s/h price, but it will be shipped with no box or packaging, and the buyer can accept the responsibilty. Surprisingly I've had several agree to that, and never had any further complaints form them.
The approach you take depends how kind they are to you. If they are rude, end it immediately and neg them. Sometimes I will look at the profit of the item sold and if it was profitable I'll try to make the transaction work.
posted on June 4, 2002 06:05:22 PM
How did she pay? If it was through PayPal, I'd refund what she did pay, and tell her to re-send the correct amount. That way you'll only have to pay fees once, instead of twice.
If it was a check or money order, I'd hold it for (say) 10 days after telling her to send the remaining balance. If she doesn't send the rest, return her uncashed payment to her.
Either way, if she doesn't pay the amount indicated in your auctions, file a non-paying bidder alert using the option that says the bidder didn't comply with the seller's terms.
Alternatively, you could tell her to send a SIGNED statement through regular mail (on PAPER) releasing you from any responsibility should the package become lost or damaged. Personally, I wouldn't do that -- it could get unnecessarily complicated if something did happen to the package -- but it would be an option.
Another option would be to pay for the insurance yourself, but that would just encourage her to do it again to another seller.
Don'tcha love it when bidders like this come along?
posted on June 4, 2002 06:38:32 PM
I don't require insurance, but I have had
people short me on postage. I simply inform
them that when they send the balance, I will
mail their package. Some never do, and since
I list "No refunds. No returns.", they are
S.O.L. Hey, life is too short to play games
with jerks. Treat every bidder nicely, until
they reveal themselves and then just lay down
the law and stick to your TOS. Good luck!
Z
---
"Cannot say. Saying, I would know. Do not
know, so cannot say". -- Zathras (Babylon 5)
posted on June 4, 2002 08:35:23 PM
I agree with what everyone is saying about this. You set the terms, and once the bidder places a bid on your item, they have agreed to your terms. Personally, I would refund the money and file a NPB as someone mentioned earlier. A person like this is most likely going to say that they never received the item or that it was "broken" and cause you headaches. It sounds a bit like a scam. Why would anyone in their right mind want something breakable shipped without insurance anyway? I would be very suspicious. Stick to your terms.
posted on June 5, 2002 08:53:08 AM
I would suggest, if it IS a check, that you write VOID across in in black marker before returning and then keep a copy. This prevents someone from "stealing" the check or if they claim that the returned check never arrives, you can show them that it was voided and thus they cannot hit you up for stop-payment fees, etc.
They cannot use the check for anything else anyway and it protects you. So it's worth doing. Better safe than sorry.
posted on June 5, 2002 09:15:49 AM
I agree with the others. I would stick to my guns and not ship without the proper postage.
I also require insurance now as I have had several people who did not wish to have insurance report items were damaged or never received (and confirmation from PO is useless). They always want their money returned and it is easier to return it than it is to go through the hassle. Now I don't have to worry about it.
I don't know what I will do next month though. These new postal rates are killers anyway without adding extra! Thank goodness they didn't do anything with media mail.
posted on June 5, 2002 11:26:56 AM new
Tell them that you aren't Monty Hall and this aint Let's Make a Deal, so comply with the auction terms or move on...
posted on June 5, 2002 11:32:25 AM new
figmente: It might stink, but even if it only costs $4.00 you can bet you would want a refund if it didn't get to you. Everyone is suspicious and they think we are all out to steal from them so "fraud" is the first thing that enters their mind if the package does not arrive--and they are pretty impatient for that to happen anyway.
Also, if it is broken in transit they immediately place the blame on "poor" packaging so they want a refund for that also. I never had the time or energy to argue, and I have only had to refund a few items for lost shipments, but it just wasn't worth the worry. Now, with insurance I never have to worry about it and they know they will get their item or their money back.
I don't care how much you put in your TOS "not responsible for uninsured items" they WILL demand a refund if it is not delivered safely!
posted on June 5, 2002 12:51:49 PM new
Not everyone is so quick to claim fraud, but some are so suspicious they'll choose to require $1.10 insurance on a $4.00 item.
You could choose to be be flexible or to stick to your stated terms of service. It is true that the buyer should not have bid if unwilling to accept your offer. Perhaps you can even get the chance to exchange complaints about how uncooperative buyer and seller were, probably add stubborn and rude as such imbroglios tend to escalate at least that far.
posted on June 5, 2002 02:07:59 PM newNot everyone is so quick to claim fraud, but some are so suspicious they'll choose to require $1.10 insurance on a $4.00 item. You could choose to be be flexible or to stick to your stated terms of service. It is true that the buyer should not have bid if unwilling to accept your offer. Perhaps you can even get the chance to exchange complaints about how uncooperative buyer and seller were, probably add stubborn and rude as such imbroglios tend to escalate at least that far.
Which is why I'm sure meridenmor will leave a tempered, factual response (and/or neg) to any flames that might be left for her/him. And anyone who knows anything about eBay will see very clearly what happened.
I checked out the auction, and your attack isn't really fair. First off, the item was not $4. It closed at $28. The terms were crystal clear, if a bit dictatorial... On the other hand, the description seemed extremely thorough. Overall, I got a good impression of a trustworthy, conscientious seller.
The seller's feedback is high with many commendations for good packing. The bidder's feedback is also high. I would bet this transaction can still be salvaged without the seller having to renege on his/her (clearly stated) terms.
The only suggestion I would offer here is that if it's possible to include a fixed shipping price in the auction text, that might avoid future "sticker shock." Maybe instead of including a minimum cost, the seller could include a "maximum cost" based on shipping Key West to Seattle, or Juneau, or Maui. Whatever.)
posted on June 5, 2002 02:34:55 PM new
Many many thanks to those of you who took the time and thought to reply. We appreciate the validation that we are responsible sellers. Our feedback records show that in over 3 years on eBay we have never neged anyone; we have had one neg given us in all that time, and that was from someone whose feedback record showed that she is probably mentally ill. We figure that neging just escalates the conflict. Better to report that the winning bidder did not comply with terms and let eBay take action when enough complaints mount up. We do feel that shipping uninsured an old irreplaceable plate that has a hairline would be irresponsible and unprofessional. We also suspect that the outcome would be as some of you suggested: more grief and a demand for a refund. That nobody needs. Thanks again! Joan & Dale
posted on June 5, 2002 02:49:33 PM new
No attack intended, just facts.
Whether or not meridenmor would extend requiring insurance to a $4 item, there are sellers (and even buyers) who do. There are also many buyers and sellers who are more trusting. Those who inflexibly impose such terms as insurance required (or money order only) for small purchases are quite likely to be conscientious (though obviously not trusting); in contrast the buyer who argues after the fact with clearly stated terms is very likely to be a PITA.
posted on June 5, 2002 08:06:59 PM new
Not everything that sells for $4 is worth $4, some are worth more and just failed to reach that plateau.
Admittedly, if I sold something for $4, then the insured value IS $4, because that would be all the customer is out of.
I wouldn't require insurance for a $4 item -- I would self-insure for that low an amount anyway (if they paid for it, of course). $20 is my threshold. But I don't require insurance anyway.
posted on June 6, 2002 03:01:50 AM new
I don't require insurance either, but if this were me, I would email the buyer that if I shipped without insurance they would be taking full responsibility. If item did not arrive intact or was lost altogether, there would be no recourse on the buyers part.
If the buyer emailed me agreeing to these terms, then I would ship without the insurance. I would package as carefully as always and ship.
I would not leave feedback until I received feedback so that I could explain in my feedback if there was a problem when the item arrived.
posted on June 6, 2002 10:32:57 AM new
Almost everything I sell is fragile. I state in my TOS that I ship Priority Mail Insured. I don't care if it is a $4.00 item or $500.00 item. It goes Insured & I have never had a single complaint. The buyers of china & glass usually want it insured & I certainly will not self insure. However I have had only 3 pieces broken in shipment in the past 2 yrs.
posted on June 6, 2002 10:50:34 AM new
I found out something the other day. Guy wanted me to USPS insure his purchase of about $5+ dollars.
Miminum insurance level for the Post Office is $10.00. They won't insure for any value less than that. But you just mark it for $10.00 and insure it.
But without having done any other research I wonder what would happen if the item got lost? Since you would have to show them the final bid price, wouldn't that disqualify it from the insurance?
There are only 10 types of people in the world
Those who understand binary and those who don't
Not sure where you live, but my post office right outside of New Orleans will insure for any amount. I offer optional insurance on items under $20.00 and have had customers request insurance on $4.00 & $5.00 items. My post office has never refused to insure for low amounts. Maybe it's just Louisiana where no government office ever turns down $$$.
posted on June 6, 2002 07:14:00 PM newThis is the most flagrantly uncooperative bidder we have had in a long time.
Some people just want to argue. You have one of those people.
When I get someone who wakes up and reads the TOS after s/he bids, I send the customary end of auction information and ONE email reiterating the terms. I ignore all future emails. There is no negotiation.
