posted on August 14, 2002 06:30:03 AM
I recently purchased a car via eBaymotors (done this twice before and sold several as well) But I could not title the car in my state (Michigan) because the owner's name and the seller's name turned out to be diffrent people. The seller refused to send a receipt (I have the original auction ad and cashiers check) but this will not be enough to title the car in Michigan. After repeated emails to the seller and no answer I left a neg....of course within minutes I get one back full of lies.
My question now is what can I do to get the car titled? All I have now is a Lincoln door stop out in my driveway.
Here is the item #1834924496 for a peek. Also check out the wanker sellers shill bid names he used to drive my neg down his list, it's a hoot.
Any suggestions would be great, Thanks.
Tim
posted on August 14, 2002 07:39:33 AM
First how can a car be sold by one person and have a different person on the title? I think that this is a matter of contacting eBay, that is if there is someone that will talk with you, to get it straightened out, or maybe a lawyer would help. How far away does this person live from you? I just found out it is in NY. I would call the NY State Attorney Generals office of even the Department of Transportation and ask them what to do. I know you can't do that in Wisconsin, sell a car that it titled to someone else. The deal sounds fishy to me Good Luck.
posted on August 14, 2002 07:47:45 AM
Tim, without being all that well informed about it, most states have separate laws governing sales of automobiles (as you probably know if you buy and sell autos)...and selling one to which you don't have title is a major no-no.
I don't know whether the state of Michigan would have jurisdiction, or the state the seller was in, but I would begin locally and go from there.
I don't quite understand why you left a neg (knowing you would probably get one back - it's tit for tat on eBay, you know) before this was resolved, when you have much bigger fish to fry.
In most states this could be a felony, with a possible prison term. Why have you not pursued this route instead of exchanging negatives with the jerk?
posted on August 14, 2002 08:20:14 AM
This seller appears to be selling cars without titling them into his name. This avoids both sales tax and title fees. He's essentially a small time used car dealer/small time crook without the insurance or license. I'll bet the previous title that he turned over to you had no date filled in as to the date of sale? Call his local police after speaking with your local police(I'd make an appointment with a detective) and get the terms straight before you call the seller's local police.
posted on August 14, 2002 09:29:24 AM
Tim, it seems we are all getting different things from your post.
Did you or did you not receive a title (in whoever's name)?
That point is a little vague; you say the seller and owner are two different people, but don't specify.
Although I agree with seyms as to what this seller is doing, it doesn't solve your problem. I understand what Jack is saying, and you could probably do that and get by with it, but it could come back on you most unpleasantly.
Unless laws in other states are much laxer than in Texas, do not forge a DMV document. The seller probably bought the car, like has already been mentioned, and wants to play the game without abiding by the rules. But suppose it was stolen at some point? Wouldn't you be an accessory then? Or the owner doesn't know this person has sold the car, or there is a lien on it?
A chat with your police department can steer you in the right direction, and they might even start the process with your, or your seller's, DMV for you.
He probably is breaking several laws; if so, then a crime has been committed - and it is a police matter, even if it becomes a state thing at some point.
posted on August 14, 2002 09:47:49 AM
i do realize that 99% of the items on ebay fall into that classification, but i do also see a car as something that just has to much to it to take a chance on. i was not being disrespectful in anyway. it has just always been a puzzle to me how someone could fork over that much money for something they really have no clue whether it even works. same goes for electronics. just something i dont feel is meant to be sold at online auctions is all. things like cars need to be inspected before money changes hands. i know most people wouldnt go buy a car from a dealer at a lot before they test drive it why would you buy one you only get pictures of.
posted on August 14, 2002 10:00:45 AM
does it matter if the seller and the name on the car title are not the same??
with all that flipping going on,there may not be much time to update the title information??
did you do some research on the title and history etc before you bidded on the car??
posted on August 14, 2002 10:26:52 AM
In answer to some of the questions;
The title was not in the name of the person/eBay seller I paid. Maybe he was doing as seyms said and avoiding taxes or title transfer fees, who knows. The problem with my DMV is that I needed a receipt of sale in the owner's name, the auction ad and copy of the cashiers check (in the sellers name) won't do. I tried many times both via email and phone conversations to get one, didn't happen.
Trading negs. You bet I will. As discussed here on AW many times I'd rather give the other eBay users a heads-up with a neg than just roll over and play dead. Besides I can trade negs with a seller thats 7+ 3- all day when my rating is 1211+ and now 9-
I did not research the title, my mistake. The ad read clear title, lesson learned.
As for not buying a car on eBay. I've sold and bought about 6 cars this way without a hitch, even sending a 57 T-Bird parts car to Canada. Thought this deal would go as well, again lesson learned.
Thanks for all the suggestions and I'll let you know how this turns out.
Tim
posted on August 14, 2002 10:53:56 AM
(Disclaimer: I can only generalize about the
procedures for the state I worked in. I also have not reviewed the auto auction listed.)
Having been a motor vehicle title examiner for 15 years (no longer doing the job), let me say that you'll need a title from the owner of the vehicle from the state in which it was previously titled (you can receive registration in a state but not necessarily have it titled in that state.) This is the only true proof of ownership for a vehicle without having to have it bonded if no proof of ownership can be provided.
It must also include all bills of sale from one owner to the next owner. If the seller on eBayMotors was involved as a buyer from the original owner, other than just listing it on eBay Motors, a bill of sale is required. That may be a problem also, since any buyers involved up until your purchase may not want to do bills of sale because there are probably obligatory fees and taxes due on each and every sale.
If you are unable to obtain the title from the previous owner; I would contact the Department of Motor Vehicle in the state that the vehicle was previously title/registered in. Quite a few states now have state police who work on motor vehicle fraud.
JacksWebb brought up a good point. If, in fact, the eBay seller, is involved as an actually owner having been a middle man purchaser, many state laws prohibit the amount of vehicles that can be purchased and sold per year without a dealer's license. Our state is 5. But that usually takes alot more research unless someone provides tip information.
The state you want to title it in will probably be of little help. All they want is your proof of ownership which is their state's title or the foreign state title. (Vintage vehicles can use original registration cards as proof of ownership but that's not real frequent.)
posted on August 14, 2002 10:59:56 AM
TOYBUYER,,,,,,YUP,,,TIP INFORMATION. OTHERWISE AS YOU KNOW......THE BEAT GOES ON....
I WRITE WHIF A KRAYON, I AM ALMOST 5.
posted on August 14, 2002 11:02:58 AM
I just this month bought a car on ebay. I did my research (carfax)...checked feedback (very important). I also went with a dealer and not an individual.
It took me 7 days to drive it the 3000 miles back to Alaska but I figure I saved about $2000.00 to $2500.00 buying it in the lower 48.
I did have it checked out after the purchase to make sure it would make it home. It did great and the 4 wheel drive came in handy on the rough construction passages of the Alaska highway.
This was a great experience and I would certainly do it again.
posted on August 14, 2002 12:58:16 PM
Most of us realize that your auction was a bad deal, but we are not here to chatize you but to try and help make this into a good deal. I hope that you can find your answers, get the information that you need because if you don't with the non refundable 50% of the car you really are out a lot. I imagine if the 50% was non refundable that when you paid him that the rest of the money isn't refundable either. I, and I am sure the rest of us hope that you can resolve this and if that seller is a bad seller than help get rid of him so others don't have a bad deal.. Good Luck
posted on August 14, 2002 04:08:06 PM
In most States if you do not sell a car with a clear legit title, a court of law will make you refund all money on the car.Collected many times in the State of Florida. Been there done that.
posted on August 14, 2002 05:08:00 PM
You need to contact the person who's name is on the title and get him to sign off on it. That's the only thing your DMV will accept. If that fails, take off the gloves and do it the hard way. I don't know if this will work in your state, but it will in many: Have a local towing company tow it to their facility and invoice you. Refuse (in writing) to pay the bill. Let him lien the car. In 30 days, he can get title and sell the car. You can then buy it from him with a clear title. Be sure you pre-arrange this with him.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on August 14, 2002 05:17:44 PM
SPARKSZ,,,,,,HAHAHAHHAAH, I THINK A GREAT AMERICAN STATESMEN ONCE SAID IT,,,,,THERE'S MORE THAN ONE WAY TO SKIN A CAT. DAVEY CROCKETTE. ?????
posted on August 14, 2002 06:43:03 PM
I live CA & have bought & sold cars w/o ever having them registered in my name. As long as I get it done within 30 days, I don't even have to notify my ins. Co. The last time I did this was 3 yrs ago. I wrecked my car & it was going to be 3 to 4 weeks to get it fixed. I found a nice little 84 Topaz with under 70,000 miles (a grandma car)paid $1400.00 for it, kept it 5 weeks & sold it for what I paid. Sure beats renting.
posted on August 14, 2002 08:27:10 PMI live CA & have bought & sold cars w/o ever having them registered in my name. As long as I get it done within 30 days, I don't even have to notify my ins. Co. The last time I did this was 3 yrs ago. I wrecked my car & it was going to be 3 to 4 weeks to get it fixed. I found a nice little 84 Topaz with under 70,000 miles (a grandma car)paid $1400.00 for it, kept it 5 weeks & sold it for what I paid. Sure beats renting.
Sanmar: oooooohhhh! Don't say that! Or put it in writing anways. In most states that's considered avoiding tax. And it might work in California but if the right person calls the right person.....ouch! Unless, I'm misunderstanding your post?? In my vast experience, it's amazing on who finks on who....old girlfriends, old boyfriends.....friends of friends who heard about this or that....
If you do apply for title, fine, but if you never transfer the title and then sell the vehicle to another buyer and never show that your ever owned it in the chain of ownership.....aye-yi-yi! But this is the technical law.
Now, don't get me wrong, I may believe in "giving unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's" and I know more than most about the Bermuda Triangles in the world of motor vehicle titles; but never assume that states aren't considering going after this stuff cuz they are. (okay, mostly if they get a complaint) Why? In our state there's sales tax on every motor vehicle transfer and they lose thousands of $$ for those that don't declare a purchase or declare a price less than they paid.
Now, I'm not saying that I think this is a great law....why the state has probably collected more money on a 10 year old vehicle that's been sold and transfered dozens of times than the amount of the car was probably originally purchased for.
But I digress. I think the whole issue for the original poster is getting his title. He needs that proof of ownership.
Sparkz brought up a good point, but I don't believe that works in every state so take his advice and check first.
Personally, contact the owner. If no luck, contact the DMV and let the state police work on it if they have an enforcement unit. Cuz if they do, they won't be just looking at the original posters sale <evil grin>.
posted on August 15, 2002 06:28:11 AM
a few years ago i bot a car off the street-yes,literally off the street ,i saw this guy driving a 92 mitsubishi gallant with a for sale sign in the window.
it turns out that this car was bot at auction by a used car dealer from some latin america country and intended for export back to his country for resale.
but there were some major problems with transmission and carburator.
a local dealer bot it from him and spent 1200 on a rebuilt transmission and a new carburator and have one of his salesmen drive it around town.
well,anyway i bot the car,title was still in this latin car dealer name and like i stated,he has no license to sell cars in thic country.
to make a long story short,the salesman took me to a place in a latin supermarket and they took care of all the paperwork,license plates etc for a fee.
posted on August 15, 2002 06:39:08 AM
the car has other problems which was not fixed-the engine LEAKS oil.
anyway it ran great until it was wrecked in an accident.
there is money to be made exporting used cars to less developed countries-latin america and eastern eeurope,one man junk is another man's treasures.
down here old tv sets and non working tv sets are sold to mexico for parts.
keep talking,may be we can start a business together rounding up old junks and route them all to jack 's backyard and ship them all over the world for $$
posted on August 15, 2002 06:48:59 AM
STOPWHINING,,,,,,,LIKE I SAID,,,,,WHAT GREAT THREAD.....JUST SEEMS CARS AND JUNK ARE PERFECT MIX.
OH NOT TO WORRY I ALREADY HAVE 3 SITTING IN THE BACK YARD WAITING FOR EXPORT, EXPORT TO ANY ONE THAT WANTS THEM ANNNNNND I HAVE THE PAPERS ANNNNND THAY ARE IN "MY" NAME. ALL LEGAL. SOME EVEN RUN. YOU REFER TO TO PARTS OF STUFF....T.V.'S ETC. I GET PERFECTLY GOOD STUFF THAT COULD BE SOLD. YOU SET IT UP...I GOT THE GOODS. CALIFORNIA IS MY ADDRESS.
In most states that's considered avoiding tax. And it might work in California but if the right person calls the right person.....ouch! Unless, I'm misunderstanding your post?? In my vast experience, it's amazing on who finks on who....old girlfriends, old boyfriends.....friends of friends who heard about this or that....