posted on January 18, 2003 12:49:50 PM new
i won an antique print which is framed ,seller scans the edition number x-yy written in pencil on the back of the picture frame and scanned the seal and signature of the artist on the print thru the glass.
she said it came from a reputable source and if i dont like it,i can return it.
now her item page said she accept credit cards,but now she wants money order or personal check as credit card processing cost her extra.
but i feel if i pay her with check or money order and find out the print is not original as described and she refuses to refund,i am out of a good sum of money.
she did not mention paypal,even if she does offer paypal,paypal does not get involved with quality issue.
so if file chargeback thru my cc company,paypal may lock up my account and her account as well.
what should i do??
(my friend said that she could have rented a booth at a mall and any customer who comes to her booth to purchase with cc ,it will be processed thru the mall operator who gets a cut,but in this case,she is selling on ebay and mall owner may not want this transaction to go thru his account.in other words,she does not have a merchant account,the mall owner does.then why does she said she accepts credit cards??)
posted on January 18, 2003 01:58:57 PM new
If her item page says she accepts cc's, I'd hold her to that. If you are uncomfortable paying my check or money order, I'd steer clear of them. I know of no safe way to send a money order or a check and still be able to go back after her if your item turns out to be "not as described." Once your check clears, I believe you are on the hook (I could be wrong, though). Was this a large sale? How about Escrow?
posted on January 18, 2003 02:15:50 PM new
Would agree that you should hold seller to CC as per the TOS - they pay for escrow if check or money order payment is sent.
CC payments carry a fee but that's not your problem.
posted on January 18, 2003 02:20:04 PM new
it is a good sum of money for me,if it turns out to be authentic as described it is worth a lot more,else it is worth may be the cost of the frame plus a sheet of paper!!
i thought about escrow if i can find an escrow service at a reasonable price,would the escrow need to remove the glass and frame to look at the print??
now i am wondering if i were the seller,i would want to do so just to see what is going on,anyone can write in pencil to indicate copy number xx out of total of yy.
i think i will stick to my gun and insist on paying with credit card,thanks.
posted on January 18, 2003 03:01:44 PM new
Stop - Since I don't know anything about this piece or this artist I can't say anything for sure but isn't it unusual from the piece number to be on the back? I know that all of the pieces that I have or have been around that are limited edition numbered prints/lithos all have this info on the front of the piece, generally on the same level as the artists signature.
BTW - Pecil numbering is very common, I have 7 numbered pieces and they are all numbered in pencil.
You may want to do a little research as to whether it is common for the artists pieces to be numbered on the back. Also, how did they get the pick of the number if it is on the back of a framed piece? Generally there is some type of backing for protection.
Those two aspects of your description would be red flags for me. I definately would not agree to any payment measure other than Escrow or CC . I would want a safe escape route from that deal!
posted on January 18, 2003 03:25:17 PM new
You can pay her through BidPay and use your credit card. Of course it will cost you an extra 5 dollars but still you have used your CC card in case....
posted on January 18, 2003 03:34:35 PM new
the prior owner is an artist and collector and this is a very old foreign print,so the history of this print would have to come from the prior owner,not the seller.
those prints are identified by the publisher and the date in foreign years and months .
by knowing the publisher ,one knows which era it is printed and how many copies were made.
as to number of copy,it would have to come from words of mouth and appearance of the print.
irregardless of the claim it is number x of yy ,if it comes from that period of time,it is a valuable print.
thanks for your help,i will insist on credit card payment.
it is seller job to find way to process the credit card if her tos said so.
posted on January 18, 2003 03:44:55 PM new
Pay by direct credit card only. Hold the seller to their TOS. Offer to pay an extra 4% to cover any fees. This isn't called for, but if it's such a "deal if it's real" it's worth it. If this isn't acceptable to the seller, it's a fake, and you'll know it before having any grioef. I'd then leave a neg to warn other buyers what this seller's up to.
posted on January 18, 2003 03:45:19 PM new
I wouldn't use bidpay for it. I don't think it would be very easy to do a chargeback if it is even possible. The only thing you buy with the credit card is a money order and bidpay can prove that it was cashed. I think it is there user agreement that no chargeback can be filed.
I believe the only way that a credit card will do a chargeback on a bidpay payment is if the card number was stolen.
What about using COD? If the seller is worried about losing the shipping if it is refused you could just pay for the shipping first and have the COD just for the bid price. Then you could open it before paying and inspect it.
posted on January 18, 2003 04:44:38 PM new
Stopwhining,
I agree with the others. Hold the seller to their TOS and insist on paying with a credit card. If they balk then it's probably a fake.
Sapington,
Which delivery outfits will allow you to open a COD package before paying for it? I haven't found any yet. Thanks.
[ edited by rocketguy on Jan 18, 2003 04:47 PM ]
posted on January 18, 2003 05:05:32 PM new
thanks,
with bidpay there can be no chargeback as all i did is use my card to purchase a money order.
COD ,you cannot open the package,once you open ,you own it.
the only way out is either an escrow or using my credit card.
she is doing well with this item,she should have no problem paying for credit card fee.
she really have not much to lose,if i return the item,i pay shipping and she just file for final value fee from ebay,all she lose is the listing fee.
posted on January 20, 2003 07:01:39 AM new
over the weekend ,the seller and i have exchanged emails-this print is a consignment and the owner is not pleased with the final bid amount,he was expecting twice that much,
so he is not willing to pay for credit card fees.
i pointed out that the reserve was met and if he wants a higher bid amount,he could have set the reserve higher,altho i doubt if the reserve would be met if it were set higher??
the seller then said they feel they have the real thing and after reading my feedback,they decide to cancel the deal.
i have a gross feedback over 3000 and neg of 50.
what should i do??
at this point,i figure if this is not an original print,i would have to pay shipping both ways and i am not too thrilled about it,but i am just wondering if the consignor and consignee trying to wriggle out of the deal because they are not happy with the result??or they are afraid i would do a chargeback if it is a fake??or they have no way to accept credit card??
[ edited by stopwhining on Jan 20, 2003 07:08 AM ]
posted on January 20, 2003 07:40:29 AM new
IF YOU ARE NOT COMFORTABLE WITH THE SALE ANY LONGER, JUST LET THEM CANCEL THE AUCTION AS LONG AS IT IS A "MUTUIALLY AGREEABLE" CANCELLATION. THAT WON'T AFFECT YOU WHEN THEY DO AN NPB.
I WOULDN'T FORCE A SELLER TO "SELL" ME SOMETHING, YOU MAY HAVE MORE GRIEF THAN YOU WANT.
I HAD A SIMILAR PROBLEM AWHILE BACK, SELLER SAID THEY ACCEPTED CC BUT ACTUALLY THE CC COMPANY THEY WANTED TO USE (C2IT) WOULDN'T LET ME SEND THEM OVER A CERTAIN AMOUNT AND THE SALE WAS MORE THAN THE LIMIT.
posted on January 20, 2003 08:59:02 AM new
pointy,
the final bid is under 1000 and the reserve could be around 500 or even less.
thanks for all your advice,i think i will let it go.
the original print was made a few hundred years ago in a foreign land and it is a very popular print and has been reproduced many times.
i think i smell a bad rat and i think they smell trouble like chargeback .
posted on January 20, 2003 11:31:05 AM new
Stop - although it looks as though you have been able to duck a bad deal here - you shoud leave a warning feedback to others. They have not fulfilled their of TOS snd then have decided not to honor their commitment as a seller with an arbitrary ruling.
It sounds very fishy and others should be made aware.
posted on January 20, 2003 02:22:04 PM new
Be sure you keep a copy of her email (with headers) in which she cancelled the deal, just in case she trys to pull a NPB on you. Why didn't you offer to pay her with a personal check? Tell her the check would be as genuine as the print.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on January 20, 2003 03:15:20 PM new
sparkz,
personal check,wiretransfer or money order or paypal offer no protection if item is not as described.
posted on January 20, 2003 03:28:17 PM new
Stopwhining,
You're doing the right thing. Run, don't walk, away from this deal as fast as you possibly can. You're saving yourself a lot of grief. Sounds to me like your seller couldn't find her butt with her own two hands and a map, she's totally clueless. I'd hold off on posting any feedback until you see what the seller is going to do.
You know what they say, if it sounds to good to be true......
posted on January 24, 2003 01:39:32 PM new
KUDO to all of you who have given me your advice-
just to let you know latest-i negged the seller and filed a complaint with ebay saying the seller refused to complete the transaction.
while i have not heard from ebay,an overseas ebay seller emailed and said the print looked like his?? 2 years ago he had this print (he recognised the frame)and it looked so authentic that soetheby had it shipped to its london office to have it examined at its own expense,after several weeks,the verdict is that it is not original.
he sold it to someone in the usa,who used billpoint.
shortly after shipping was confirmed,the buyer reversed the charge and he lost the print plus ate the shipping fee.
now he claimed that this print i bidded on look like his but he did not pencil copy x out of zy,neither did he write something in english.
what raised the red flags in my case is the pencil marking plus such a low reserve for that print.
while it may be common for american prints to have such pencil mark ,not so with foreign print,especailly prints over 100 years old.
it is like someone selling a picasso or a mona lisa with a 1000 dollars reserve?/
posted on January 24, 2003 02:02:16 PM new
Stop - congrats on ducking that bullet!
BTW - the pencil numbering that I was referring to is also done exclusively on the front of the piece. I have never heard of or seen it done on the back.
posted on January 24, 2003 02:21:43 PM new
i have some eskimo prints which is penciled in the front,not the back.with that print,there is no customs of penciling front or back in that country,then and now.
if you have found the print in question,please do not post the link here,as there is this issue of libel etc.
i have filed complaint with ebay for seller not completing the transaction,but no word on the provenance of the print as i just found out after i filed with ebay.
