posted on February 21, 2004 10:17:51 AM
Once again...
I have someone purchase 3 $70 items, paid via Western Union Auction Payment, and they are located in France. After they pay, the send me this email:
"So when do you think you can send me my 3 items ? and dont forget to declare a low value or declare them as gift to avoid custom taxes, thanks a lot"
In my TOS and checkout it notes that I will not commit mail fraud by marking items as gifts or declaring a low value to avoid customs charges. I don't care that they break the law, and if someone simply emailed me with, "Please mark as gift" or "This is a gift", I wouldn't ask any other questions. It is when they clue me in on their scam. I can't blame them for wanting to save $$, but at the same time who wants to get in trouble with the Feds over something that does nothing for me.
posted on February 21, 2004 02:15:30 PM
Let's say you did mark it as a gift & it wasn't & you were found out. It would have to be by customs in France, right?
Just what could they do to you?
Always wondered about that.
posted on February 21, 2004 03:05:57 PM
McJane brings up a GOOD POINT that nobody has ever really answered: "If we lie on the Customs Forms, is it kinda the same thing as tearing-off the mattress tag?"
Does anybody REALLY, for sure KNOW?
Any reports of up-against-the-wall for offenders??
Huuummmmn....
CNBC: "Unless the economy adds at least 2.3 million jobs by the end of the year, Bush will go down as the first president since Hoover to preside over a four-year term in which total employment fell."
posted on February 21, 2004 03:08:50 PM
You are comitting the CRIME from THIS side of the BORDER. France has NOTHING to do with it. THE U.S. Post Office does,,,,,,,,
1.Potential Buyers, NEED to !. BEFORE Bidding. Thank you.
2.NPB's (buyers?) have No rights,, Posting. After the fact lies. BLOCKED by e bay. Upon final filing of NPB.
3.Naru's . Soooo, LONG! after 3,,,, DIFFERENT, sellers file NPB's. Negs do Nothing to NARU them. filing for your PARTIAL fees back DOES.
4.A current bidders Geographical location i.e. STATE/ZIP/CITY needs to be known California cool Shades.
5.E bay need to ENHANCE their F/B System. A Cooling period. like the 20 days of HOOPS on NPB's. Many give up. works 4 e bay. They keep $K of dollars. [] trade makes even MORE $.
posted on February 21, 2004 03:13:16 PM
Every thread ever posted here on this subject has seemed to say the the US does not get involved in the matter and only the country that received the item. The US may get involved with high value shipments but otherwise I bet they'll claim they do not have the time nor money for enforcement of minor monetary value shipments.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
posted on February 21, 2004 03:15:28 PM
This is my guarantee for Canadian and International bidders. It is located in my about me page but clickable in my Shipping and Payment Details. If they bid I hope that they have read this because I will not say something and do something else. I honestly don't know what will happen but I don't want to be the first to know.
CANADIAN AND INTERNATIONAL BIDDERS
I will happily sell to you but I want you to read my guarantee before bidding. I will not lie on Customs Forms. As insurance is not available for Canadian or International sales I can not guarantee delivery. Please take this into consideration when bidding. Postage to Canada is approximately the same as in the United States. All International Sales will go Air Letter Post unless buyer wishes Global Priority. if you abide by these Terms of Service please bid. Thanks
posted on February 21, 2004 03:16:49 PM
Yer talkin' out yer Ace again........you know nothing of Postal laws....
1.Potential Buyers, NEED to !. BEFORE Bidding. Thank you.
2.NPB's (buyers?) have No rights,, Posting. After the fact lies. BLOCKED by e bay. Upon final filing of NPB.
3.Naru's . Soooo, LONG! after 3,,,, DIFFERENT, sellers file NPB's. Negs do Nothing to NARU them. filing for your PARTIAL fees back DOES.
4.A current bidders Geographical location i.e. STATE/ZIP/CITY needs to be known California cool Shades.
5.E bay need to ENHANCE their F/B System. A Cooling period. like the 20 days of HOOPS on NPB's. Many give up. works 4 e bay. They keep $K of dollars. [] trade makes even MORE $.
posted on February 21, 2004 03:17:01 PM
From the USPS website:
123.712 Acceptance by Postal Employee (PS Form 2976)
The Postal Service acceptance employee must:
a. Instruct the sender how to complete, legibly and accurately, the customs declaration form, as required. Failure to complete the form properly can delay delivery of the item or inconvenience the sender and addressee. Moreover, a false, misleading, or incomplete declaration can result in the seizure or return of the item and/or in criminal or civil penalties. The United States Postal Service assumes no responsibility for the accuracy of information that the sender enters on PS Form 2976.
posted on February 21, 2004 03:28:52 PM
Also France, England or whatever other country can open the package at Customs and decide on the appropriate duty to be charged. And it may be more than what the item was originally valued at.
If it's returned to the country of origin, no the post office doesn't get involved in any penalties or charges. That's between you and your government I think.
Or they could just seize the package and your bidder wouldn't get it. If there are too many parcels sent by you they could flag them also which means each and every one of them is inspected, causing further delays and sometimes damage.
I get asked on occasion and I just respond that I'm registered as a business and am unable to mark it as a gift. No one has ever whined. They probably don't check low value items but one never knows for sure.
posted on February 21, 2004 03:43:44 PM
I have been talked to by Customs and they wanted to VERIFY the Value,,,,Please enclose the e bay closed auction page with your reply. (via, UPS.....)They care less How SMALL the Value is. THEY are into collecting TAXES on WHATEVER the VALUE is.....Small OR LARGE, and YES they DO PERSUE,,,,,,,that's what they hire 100's of people to do. Tax evasion is a NO NO,,,,AcE says whatever he says,, believe him,,,GO Directly to Pay a Penalty....MONEY and OR Incarceration time, Yup, depends on the VALUE.....How MUCH do YOU Value YOUR FREEDOM?
1.Potential Buyers, NEED to !. BEFORE Bidding. Thank you.
2.NPB's (buyers?) have No rights,, Posting. After the fact lies. BLOCKED by e bay. Upon final filing of NPB.
3.Naru's . Soooo, LONG! after 3,,,, DIFFERENT, sellers file NPB's. Negs do Nothing to NARU them. filing for your PARTIAL fees back DOES.
4.A current bidders Geographical location i.e. STATE/ZIP/CITY needs to be known California cool Shades.
5.E bay need to ENHANCE their F/B System. A Cooling period. like the 20 days of HOOPS on NPB's. Many give up. works 4 e bay. They keep $K of dollars. [] trade makes even MORE $.
posted on February 22, 2004 06:11:40 AM
Does any one know anyone who knows anyone that has been busted for marking Gift?
Stick a pack of gum in the package as a gift and mark it gift if it will make you feel better. I don't think France is going to send it's IRS looking for you.
posted on February 22, 2004 07:33:26 AM
I am always honest on the customs form. One thing that I have wondered about however is what is the true value. Sometimes people bid things up to what I think is way more than it is worth. I have sold a couple of old magazines for over $100, but their value surely is not that much.
I sent an expensive figurine to England, and the buyer wanted me to put it down as less on the form. I did think about putting the price I paid for it. Who decides the value? It could be the price purchased for, book price or price paid for at auction.
posted on February 22, 2004 08:13:21 AM
Since the ONLY easily provable value is the closing high bid price, THAT's what me-N-Ralphie use on all customs forms
CNBC: "Unless the economy adds at least 2.3 million jobs by the end of the year, Bush will go down as the first president since Hoover to preside over a four-year term in which total employment fell."
posted on February 22, 2004 08:33:43 AMSince the ONLY easily provable value is the closing high bid price
Correct! Always put down what it sold for, thats it. If you fib on the "value" and you put insurance on this item and something goes south then thats all the insurance will pay if anything at all.
Just remember that this is just a customer and not your best pal so there is no point in doing so.
No other company will B.S. on a custom form so why should you? Keep life as simple as you can.
Bottom line is that its up to the buyer to find out from their customs if they have to pay any duty or taxes on any item they import.
Thats why Bidpay is so good for overseas sales as no one can play games with you just because they have to shell out a few bucks for taxes.
posted on February 22, 2004 10:08:01 AM
They always ask me to mark it as a gift, not to mark the value lower...My standard line is that I ship a lot of packages at my post office, they know me very well, and they know I run a business and do not ship gifts internationally. I've never had any problems after telling them that.
posted on February 22, 2004 10:28:11 AM
can anyone else remember when this topic came up a year or so ago? someone said that they heard that someone was changing the $10.00 value to $100.00 (or something like that) along the way after it had been mailed. And that they had started writing in the dollar amount also - Ten Dollars.
Sounded like good advice to me, so I've done that ever since.
posted on February 22, 2004 10:36:43 AM
It's up to each seller to be aware of the rules and then they can decide for themselves how they wish to mark the packages.
Fortunately there are very few sellers like twelvepissantpole who deliberately mark the wrong amount. If so, the recipient can show Customs the true invoice and they can get a refund.
Most sellers are in business to make money and please their customers, not to cause problems.
posted on February 22, 2004 11:26:18 AM
A lot of people are under the impression that customs will not pick their package out of thousands of others to examine. I used to be one of those also until I was driving along a rural road one day and decided it would be o.k. to kick it up to 85 mph because there was no way in the world a highway patrolman would be checking traffic this far out in the boonies. That cop appeared out of nowhere and changed my attitude in a hurry.
The light at the end of the tunnel will turn out to be an oncoming train.
posted on February 22, 2004 11:47:47 AM
The one thing I learned from the old threads on customs slips was to write the value without any decimal points such as $10.00 . Simply write 10 on the form to help your buyers out on their end as many custom officals are apparently as stupid as a bag of hammers and they often interpret $10.00 as a thousand bucks.
-------------- sig file ----------- *There is no conclusive evidence that life is serious*
posted on February 22, 2004 12:10:02 PM
In this case, I would do as Twelvepole suggests. You've received secure payment so no worry about chargebacks. I'd mark the value double, or triple. That's what it's worth to you. Would serve the arrogant French bidder right for not reading your tos, or worse, reading them and then being arrogant enough to make the demand.
.
.
.I have never marked anythng as a gift and never will. Why break the law, in whatever country, and whatever the consequences, for a stranger. I also ignore these requests, or go along with them until I've received secure payment. Then I inform the buyer that I have found out it's illegal to mark as gift.
posted on February 22, 2004 12:59:53 PM
Most of my sales are international and I was shipping internationally long before ebay. To me, people are people and I never blame my buyer for the past or present political decisions of his country as some sellers choose to do. Otherwise I wouldn't be shipping anywhere and that includes within my own country.
For certain items I offer, international customers have told relatives and friends within their country and I've gained further business from them. It helps pay the mortgage on my house.
Some comments here quickly separate the wanna-be sellers from the serious business sellers. BTW Ace, is there really an international market for sportscards?
posted on February 22, 2004 01:14:30 PM
Ok, here's another scenario. Suppose you mark gift & enclose a note something like this.
Dear Rene,
Look what I found, something you always wanted. Just had to send it to you.
Enjoy & please write soon,
How could customs know it wasn't a gift?
I have twice sold Carnival glass referance books to a buyer in Australia in lots of three & four.
I asked her how much tax she had to pay & she said none as long as the value is under 200.00
posted on February 22, 2004 03:14:30 PM
Trai was right when he said:
Just remember that this is just a customer and not your best pal so there is no point in doing so.
No other company will B.S. on a custom form so why should you? Keep life as simple as you can.
Bottom line is that its up to the buyer to find out from their customs if they have to pay any duty or taxes on any item they import.
Although many of us are very customer service oriented, we should not be expected to lie or break the law just to suit the customer. Just put the exact amount it closed at, and include a copy of the closed auction. Simple.
If you want a reputation as an honest seller, don't break the law at a customer's request. Do you think an established corporation that sells on the web would? Act like a big business in this respect, while still maintaining personal service to your customers.
"Clean hands" means no worries. Why do something that might have you end up on the wrong end of the law and have attention on being "found out"? You stand to gain nothing. All you would prove by lying for your buyer is that you are willing to lie to gain more business.
I am not say that is your intent, that's just what it would communicate to the casual observer.
!. BEFORE Bidding. Thank you.
. After the fact lies. BLOCKED by e bay. Upon final filing of NPB.
. Soooo, LONG! after 3,,,, DIFFERENT, sellers file NPB's. Negs do Nothing to NARU them. filing for your PARTIAL fees back DOES.
California cool Shades.
A Cooling period. like the 20 days of HOOPS on NPB's. Many give up. works 4 e bay. They keep $K of dollars. [] trade makes even MORE $.