cashinyourcloset
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posted on August 1, 2005 01:27:10 PM new
I haven't seen anything like this teaset before. I don't have the cups at my shop (or photo'ed), but they are as light and translucent as any I have ever held. The pot is obviously heavier.
I can't find anything like it... it's almost like Chinese meets Southwest US.
Any help is appreciated. TIA.
[ edited by cashinyourcloset on Aug 1, 2005 01:27 PM ]
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on August 1, 2005 01:40:40 PM new
Isn't that one of the Immortials or something like that. Satsuma comes to mind.
I have something very much like this but your's has a blue and mine doesn't.
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sanmar
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posted on August 1, 2005 01:42:04 PM new
This obviously Oriental & was not made for export as there is no english translation. I am betting this is Japanese.
Life Is Too Short To Drink Bad Wine
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on August 1, 2005 01:51:13 PM new
Sorry!!!!!!!!!!!
[ edited by ladyjewels2000 on Aug 1, 2005 01:52 PM ]
[ edited by ladyjewels2000 on Aug 2, 2005 02:41 AM ]
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sanmar
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posted on August 1, 2005 01:57:59 PM new
This not Satsuma. Their ID is in a small rectangle, usually outlined in red w/gold script inside.
Life Is Too Short To Drink Bad Wine
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cblev65252
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posted on August 1, 2005 01:59:37 PM new
It is Japanese (not Satsuma) and it is one of the Immortals. Export pieces do not have to have an English translation on them. I have a couple of export pieces that do not have a bit of English on them. If the paint is raised it's a moriage decoration. Looks like a Satsuma knock off. BTW, the mark is upside down. Part of the mark reads Nippon (means Japan). As to age, my guess is mid 20th century the earliest, but probably later. Probably export. How many cups are there? Should be an odd number of them.
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Aug 1, 2005 02:16 PM ]
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cashinyourcloset
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posted on August 1, 2005 02:10:30 PM new
Cheryl,
I hadn't noticed that my photography "intern" had photographed it upside down. She's learning  Not that I can read Japanese, but the fan looks upside down this way.
I mentioned Chinese before, but I guess I subliminally must have known it wasn't, or I would have had my sister-in-law, who reads Chinese, translate it for me.
For all of you who are helping out, I am constantly amazed at how much knowledge there is on this forum. I know something about audio and video, computers, etc., but I don't seem to often have a chance to repay favors here (as questions about amplifiers don't seem to come up very often  ). Sometimes I feel like the guy who never buys a round of drinks...
Claude
[ edited by cashinyourcloset on Aug 1, 2005 02:11 PM ]
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cblev65252
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posted on August 1, 2005 02:13:42 PM new
No prob, Claude. My brother deals in oriental art. I've learned a lot from him. Still a long ways to go. The Chinese and Japanese never had four cups! Four is an unlucky number. Not sure why and I never bothered to ask. My antique sake set has five cups.
Cheryl
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carolinetyler
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posted on August 1, 2005 02:47:21 PM new
I have always referred to this as Satsuma - it's early 20th Century Japanese export. I believe that is one of the 7 immortals on it. Most other sellers call it Satsuma as well. Here's an example of a completed listing:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Nippon-Moriage-Satsuma-Tea-Pot-Set-w-Plates-LOT_W0QQitemZ7336021368QQcategoryZ93QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
(Sorry, I can never get that link thing to work!)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
 Caroline
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cblev65252
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posted on August 1, 2005 02:51:45 PM new
Caroline
You shouldn't refer to it as Satsuma in your listings if it's not Satsuma. It's not Satsuma. Satsuma is clearly marked. I think saying it's made in the Satsuma style would be okay, though.
Cheryl
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ladyjewels2000
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posted on August 1, 2005 02:55:16 PM new
Well I just learned a lot!!! I thought Satsuma was a style not a maker. Interesting about the the 4 cups too.
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carolinetyler
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posted on August 1, 2005 03:40:46 PM new
Cheryl - it is Satsuma, that's what I'm saying, it is a style, as noted above, not a maker. I wouldn't call it Satsuma in a listing if it's not - but it is a very broad term - and basically refers to the Japanese porcelain that has a creamy, crackled glaze with moriage decoration from the province Satsuma. It may have been marked at one time with a paper label. It is not always signed though. It is a difficult sell, I wouldn't market it to Asian Antiques, but to tea pot collectors.
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Caroline
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niel35
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posted on August 1, 2005 03:43:03 PM new
try this
{url]http://www.gotheborg.com/marks/index_jap_marks.htm[/url]
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niel35
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posted on August 1, 2005 03:44:47 PM new
one more time
http://www.gotheborg.com/marks/index_jap_marks.htm
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stopwhining
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posted on August 1, 2005 04:58:39 PM new
this is Japanese,japanese likes to make 5 cups ,or 5 dishes,the fifth one is the spare one.Chinese dont care,they have no family planning .
-sig file -------
Eat grass,kick ass,never go belly up!
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cblev65252
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posted on August 1, 2005 05:07:55 PM new
Caroline
We will agree to disagree then. I am standing by Not Satsuma. The fan is a maker's mark not the Satsuma mark. If you look through Gotheborg's lists there are many items that look just like this teapot. Gotheborg does not label them as Satsuma. Satsuma is not the only porcelain that uses moriage in the decoration.
The painting on the front is too rough, IMO. The iron red in the immortal's robe is sloppily done. There's no way to tell the porcelain quality from the photos. It's a knock off. I doubt this had a paper Satsuma label. They went through all the trouble to mark it with the maker's mark.
Just a note: Gotheborg members are not always right. They led me astray once. Thankfully, I had the foresight to seek a professionals opinion before I dumped a very valuable piece of Chinese porcelain.
Edited to add: LOL, stop!!!
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Aug 1, 2005 05:08 PM ]
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max40
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posted on August 1, 2005 05:10:58 PM new
Nice site Niel35, I saved it for future ref.
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niel35
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posted on August 1, 2005 06:34:10 PM new
Good, Max - I got it from these wonderful people on EO and put it in my favorites
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carolinetyler
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posted on August 1, 2005 06:40:37 PM new
You're right, we may have to agree to disagree - the paper label I was referring to was an import sticker (like Made in Japan). Quality is not a factor, as there can be crappy Satsuma, no offense, Claude, but this is a crappy import piece to Asian porcelain collectors.
There are many makers for Satsuma, Kinmeizan, Kinkozan, and Kozan, just to name a few - they are the good ones - the ones who made the export pieces for the US usually 'signed' their pieces with the fuku (happiness) mark or made in Japan mark. Technically, you are correct about not calling it Satsuma, it should be called Satsuma-ware or moriage Satsuma type, etc...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Caroline
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sparkz
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:13:54 PM new
Claude...Don't listen to any of the others. They're all fulla hot air. Everyone knows that Satsuma doesn't make teapots. They make T.V.'s, stereos and cheap CD players. Besides, the writing on the bottom translates literally to: "Hung Chow's Chinese Smorgy and Tire Shop - Tulsa, Oklahoma".
A $75.00 solid state device will always blow first to protect a 25 cent fuse ~ Murphy's Law
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Roadsmith
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:28:58 PM new
LOL, Sparkz.
And do you know any other Murphy's Laws? I gave my husband a large framed Murphy's Laws poster to hang on his office wall. He loved it. As he was bringing it into the university administration building, he dropped it on one corner and some glass in it broke. He left it like that for years and years on his office wall as an example of what can go wrong. Clever boy. And he didn't have to get new glass for it that way!
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birgittaw
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posted on August 1, 2005 07:36:54 PM new
The tea set I understand (lots of them at your local group shop/auction, and not true -- read valuable/desirable/collectable -- Satsuma), but what has me stumped is why the screen on this thread is so wide, that I have to keep scrolling sideways. Is it just my screen? Are pics too large and throw it off? Whatever, it's annoying. (And it's OK to say that I'm the one who's annoying.)
B/
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cblev65252
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:05:53 PM new
It's ladyjewel's link that is making you have to scroll.
Caroline
I have seen some pretty ugly Satsuma. As they say, it's either really good, or really bad. My mother has a very old floor vase that's about the best Satsuma I've seen. Stands two or more feet tall. None of that ugly brown either. I, on the other hand, have about the ugliest Satsuma Immortals plate I've ever seen. It's so ugly I can't find it. I put it away and forgot where I put it. Oh, well, it's probably for the best.
The bottom of the teapot already says (in the Japanese way) Made in Japan. (Made in Nippon)
Edited to add: Gotheborg defines Satsuma as earthenware with a yellowish tint. This teapot does not look like earthenware. It looks like porcelain. If the cups are light and transluscent, they are porcelain. Interesting read:
http://www.gotheborg.com/marks/index_jap_marks.htm
Cheryl
[ edited by cblev65252 on Aug 1, 2005 08:14 PM ]
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neglus
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posted on August 1, 2005 08:45:33 PM new
ladyjewels2000 - please edit your post with the humongous URL - you can condense it by going to www.tinyurl.com and then repaste on your post. THANKS!
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
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sanmar
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posted on August 1, 2005 09:22:44 PM new
cheryl; For once you & I are in agreement, It IS NOT SATSUMA.
Life Is Too Short To Drink Bad Wine
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stonecold613
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posted on August 1, 2005 09:35:40 PM new
Have you tried to rub the side to see if a Genie comes out?
.
.
.
Alive in 2005
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cblev65252
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posted on August 2, 2005 04:58:07 AM new
sanmar
See? Miracles do happen! Much too sloppily done for Satsuma.
Cheryl
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neglus
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posted on August 2, 2005 05:15:58 AM new
Caroline - can you edit your post too? Looks like your link is making the thread wide too.
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
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vintagepostcardsdotorg
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posted on August 3, 2005 08:05:08 PM new
cash,
according to a japanese-american friend of mine, the mark says: "made in great japan"
based on the wording, he thinks it's pre-WWII Japan
http://stores.ebay.com/postcards-postcards?refid=store
http://www.vintagepostcards.org
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