posted on February 18, 2006 09:13:09 PM new
Ok, here is the story. I have a guy who won three items from me. He paid via paypal and I shipped right away. It seems that he moved and never changed the address with paypal. So the pkg comes back to me. He did have another address listed on Vendio, but I did not check to see if the address was different until I got it back. He says it is my fault because I shipped to the wrong address, and I say it is his fault because he provided the wrong address and when accepting paypal, you have to use the address on the transaction details page. I offered to split the rtn postage with him to make it go away and he thinks I should eat the whole cost which is pretty much my profit for the deal. What would you do?
___________________________________
If you build it, he will come........
posted on February 18, 2006 09:22:00 PM new
I once got a negative for this, but I stick to my guns. Between the auction and emails, there are 5 separate times that I tell people that I'm going to ship to the confirmed address on the PayPal shipment notification. By the way, the negative came from a LAWYER who apparently couldn't read (most of my warnings are in bold letters). She threatened to "turn me in" to eBay, of course on her office letterhead. I replied in a civil manner that since she had been so arrogant in her letter any thoughts of sharing the expense with her flew right out of my head, and that I waited with no anxiety whatsoever for eBay's response.
F#*k him if you made it clear that the PayPal address rules in the auction and emails. If you didn't, it's your fault, as the checkout implies that the address listed there will be where it is shipped.
posted on February 18, 2006 09:27:59 PM new
You did the right thing - mailing to the address he included with his payment.
Offering to pay 1/2 is more than generous.
Depending on shipping cost (if low) and price of the item (if high) I might just eat the shipping cost. Maybe mail the cheapest way (parcel post or media if possable)
posted on February 18, 2006 09:29:05 PM new
give him the url to the Paypal shipping rules and tell him you are sorry he is so stupid. Kidding... I myself need to post that in all my auctions also that I ship to the Paypal address. I do ship to unconfirmed but just hate doing so but understand how some are not confirmed. just wish Paypal would make all its users confirm their address. It is total BS that they don't do that to begin with.
**************
Can't touch this! uh huh, uh huh.
posted on February 18, 2006 10:18:51 PM new
if he does a chargeback, won't you get stuck anyway, and if you ship you will be out the items, the double postage? Tell him if he wants the items to pay the additional postage for his not having a valid address with Paypal... if he balks refund his money. But that leaves you wide open for negatives from him. Sounds like a no win situation.. Paypal ought to have a place to turn in false addresses like ebay does but I don't think they do. Anyone else know about valid addresses at Paypal?
posted on February 18, 2006 10:27:56 PM new
Well after several emails, he agreed to send 1/2 the postage. I am not sure if eBay told him he was out of luck or if it was because I would not cave. It still stinks that I am going to have to pay for his mistake but I guess that is the risk
___________________________________
If you build it, he will come........
posted on February 18, 2006 11:03:24 PM new
I've had several instances lately where the eBay address was different than the PayPal address. I always double-check (once I sent a package to another customer so I'm slightly paranoid) and always e-mail the customer to see which address they want me to ship to. That being said, it was your customer's error and you did the right thing. Glad it worked out sort of OK.
posted on February 18, 2006 11:07:04 PM new
I think we missed a crucial detail here:
This buyer provided you with an address to ship to when he completed the Vendio checkout - correct?
Did you ship to his PayPal address - and that was the wrong one?
If that's the case, you're lucky to have him pay for half. If I were the buyer who provided an address in the checkout process you had me complete -- I'd expect you to ship to that address -- unless you specify, like Claude said, that you would only ship to my PayPal address.
Does your TOS say you will only ship to a confirmed PayPal address? If you do, you were right to stick to your guns.
Wayne
Never explain -- Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
~ Elbert Hubbard
posted on February 19, 2006 12:39:34 AM new
Captian23, as you can gauge from the responses so far, we sellers all agree you are in the right. You even tried to meet the buyer halfway by offering to split return postage - a nice gesture. Unfortunately, your buyer is uncooperative so there isn't much you can do.
Since buyer paid via PayPal you must ship to their address, as registered with PayPal, to retain what minimal seller protection you have under PayPal's "writ in stone" SPP. Also you should ship each item separately otherwise the buyer can claim an item is missing (happens frequently if you believe the eBay/PayPal forums) and get an instant PayPal refund. Tell your buyer - no ifs or buts. Sorry. It's to protect them...
Inform them if they insist you must ship to their new unverified address, you'll be obliged under PayPal's TOS to report them as a possible identity thief. Point out their credit card company and any linked bank account will also be alerted and a notice may be placed on their credit report, yadda, yadda... (BidPay always asked sellers to report any shipping address "switcheroos" as these were sure signs of identity thieves or "carders" in action.)
Or you'll refund their PayPal payment, and they can pay again by money order (including added postage for reshipping) and you'll ship to any address they want, no questions asked.
posted on February 19, 2006 02:55:29 AM new
I think you all missed the point Familybiz is trying to make.
If the buyer was re-directed to VENDIO checkout and he entered the info requested, then I can understand his assumption that the item would be shipped to the address he entered into checkout. It should not be his fault that the seller shipped to a PayPal address.
It has been a while since I used Vendio checkout, but doesn't it flag when the Vendio checkout address does not match the PayPal address? I seem to remember that it used to.
I would not pay for a shipping mistake because a buyer who had incorrect info on his Paypal account.
But that is not the real issue here. The issue is, if you use a checkout re-direct, I as a buyer would think you are giving precedence to the checkout info and would expect my package to be sent to the address I entered in checkout.
Just for the record and to CMA, my TOS states that I need to hear from my buyers within 3 days and they need to verify their shipping address. Very few actually do this, but it would cover your butt in a situation such as this.
posted on February 19, 2006 04:29:38 AM new
The first thing I do when someone wins an auction is to contact them and thank them for bidding and ask to confirm their address on the EOA form. I know that a lot of sellers use checkout, but I still do it the old fashioned way. Just last week I got one wrong address and one wrong zip.
posted on February 19, 2006 06:12:19 AM new
why dont you ask him to update his paypal address,how does he get his credit card statement if he has no forward address??
I assume you are using DC and it shows item non deliverable and has been returned to you??
If you ship again to a different address ,different from paypal ,he could file complaint with paypal saying he never receive the item and the DC supports it.
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on February 19, 2006 07:16:57 AM new
I had the very same thing happen to me. I reshipped the cheapest way I could to cut my lost. After thinking about it I got angry with myself for paying the second shipping feeling it was really her error - not mine.
Oh well it was done!!!
But I learned from it and changed my WBN and check out to include the following "If your paypal shipping address is
different from the address you provide here, your item will be shipped to your paypal address unless you email me at
xxxxxxxx.net to alert me of the difference. Any additional SHI expense incurred due to a different address will be
billed to winner"
Of course I already have all that "confirmed paypal address only" stuff in my TOS, but now I feel like I'm covered for sure as every winner gets this email after the auction.
posted on February 19, 2006 08:27:58 AM newWhat would you do?
Report him to eBay for invalid contact information. (Bet he didn't change it with eBay, either.) Refund his money less shipping.
Relist the items and get more for them next time, especially if your profit is so thin that shipping will kill it.
All this about what your TOS says and doesn't say is just blah, blah, blah. They don't bloody well read the TOS anyway. We all know it.
Yes, I believe in burning down the building AND salting the earth afterwards. Especially this morning.
posted on February 19, 2006 08:38:18 AM new
Some sellers are so obsessed with TOS,they say little about the item they are trying to sell,leaving out information as to size,condition,color,not to mention lousy picture,or lack of it.
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on February 19, 2006 12:56:25 PM new
The last time a package came back to me after I had mailed it to the paypal "confirmed" address I contacted the buyer who gave me their "new" address.
I promply mailed it to their new address with delivery confirmation.
Delivery confirmation showed they received it at the "new" address but they decided to dispute the charge with paypal as non-receipt...and won...because I hadn't shipped it to paypal's "confirmed" address.
Refund the paypal payment. If he still wants it at his "new" address tell him to send a money order.
posted on February 19, 2006 01:20:41 PM new
ewora,
Delivery confirmation showed they received it at the "new" address but they decided to dispute the charge with paypal as non-receipt...and won...because I hadn't shipped it to paypal's "confirmed" address.
Clear case of mail fraud i.e. "obtaining goods by deception".
Since the item was sent via mail (always recommended), file a MAIL FRAUD complaint with the USPS Postal Inspectors. Mention "Theft by PayPal" and the inspector's eyes will roll! They will assist in recovery of your goods or money, and have an excellent success rate. You should get a full refund. Make sure to include any charge back fee you may have been assessed by PayPal. See link below:
Also file a complaint with buyer's local Police for "obtaining goods /theft by deception" - ask to speak to a detective in the fraud squad. Document all your calls, who you speak to, and what action they will take in building a criminal case. If the Police are not interested contact a local District Attorney or the State Attorney.
Lastly, a succinct, factual letter to the editor of a local newspaper in the buyer's area can also do wonders in smaller communities (a.k.a. name & shame 'em).
No need to contact the buyer. Leave that up to the Postal Inspector and other law enforcement.
posted on February 19, 2006 04:00:46 PM new
"Since the item was sent via mail (always recommended), file a MAIL FRAUD complaint with the USPS Postal Inspectors. Mention "Theft by PayPal" and the inspector's eyes will roll! They will assist in recovery of your goods or money, and have an excellent success rate. You should get a full refund. Make sure to include any charge back fee you may have been assessed by PayPal." (How do I italicize this?)
DC shows the package was delivered somewhere. The mail carrier may remember but if carrier left it in the mailbox or on the porch, there's no way to prove the person actually received it. If it can't be proven the intended recipient actually received it, fraud also can't be proved.
What does paypal do if the buyer says it was never received but USPS website shows it was delivered? Do they contact the post office and ask if the carrier remembers delivering to that address? I came home to a DC for someone in another city but with the same address. I looked it up online but it just said delivered. Meanwhile, we'd been on holiday, our son was picking up the mail, didn't notice the misdelivery and by the time I contacted the people, they were having an argument with the company that shipped it because it was showing that it had been delivered.
posted on February 19, 2006 04:43:01 PM newDC shows the package was delivered somewhere. The mail carrier may remember but if carrier left it in the mailbox or on the porch, there's no way to prove the person actually received it. If it can't be proven the intended recipient actually received it, fraud also can't be proved.
This is mail theft - also investigated by, wait for it, the USPS Postal Inspectors. No need to prove they received it or not, as you can claim on insurance. Get buyer to complete claim form so you can recover via insurance. (Note: claim form can also be used to prove perjury if they did receive item, but claim not to have. Best you don't tell them that part.)
posted on February 19, 2006 04:51:12 PM new
If you are talking about filing insurance claim with USPS and the DC said it has been delivered,USPS could deny your claim.
IF your item is broken or damaged and it is well packed according to USPS guideline,your claim could be denied as how could it be USPS fault if it is so well packed?
If your item is broken and not well packed according to USPS guideline,your claim could be denied as you should know better to pack it according to USPS guideline.
If the item is broken but the external box is not damaged,then it cant be USPS fault .
/ lets all stop whining !! /
posted on February 19, 2006 05:19:44 PM new
I'm wondering what happens if you ship a package with DC but no insurance in accordance with paypal rules. The scan shows it was delivered, buyer says it wasn't received. It could have been delivered to the wrong address. Does paypal refund? I don't think there's a way to prove where it was delivered. Also, how could fraud be proven? Again no way to know where it was delivered or if it was received unless it was actually handed to someone and the carrier remembered it. Parcels can be stolen from the mailbox, or in the case of small,light ones, my Golden loves to pick up the next door neighbor's and bring them as presents.
posted on February 19, 2006 05:31:46 PM new
Yeah, he's a real joy, fortunately the neighbors are understanding even to the point of feeding the neighborhood thief on a daily basis. Retrievers are so named for a reason!
posted on February 19, 2006 05:51:01 PM new
lONDON,
if a package is delivered with DC and buyer claimed he did not get it,the seller is protected by paypal seller protection policy,buyer would probably get the money from Paypal provided it is not a lot of money.
Postal carrier is not going to stick his neck out and said the buyer is a liar bla bla bla.How many carriers remember what day and what package is delivered ??
/ lets all stop whining !! /
They will assist in recovery of your goods or money, and have an excellent success rate. You should get a full refund. Make sure to include any charge back fee you may have been assessed by PayPal. See link below: