blueyes29
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posted on February 3, 2007 05:13:51 PM new
Can anyone tell me what this small brass figure is? I thought it was Horus but, after researching, realized it wasn't. It looks familiar but I can't come up with a name...Thanks for any help...Something else...I was told this is a "prehistoric antiquity"...the previous owner WAS a talented collector and other items have proven to be authentic...any thoughts? Thanks again
[ edited by blueyes29 on Feb 3, 2007 05:15 PM ]
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tomwiii
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posted on February 3, 2007 06:12:08 PM new
Prof. Ralphie proclaims it to be the Trojan BULL...
Tis a little known FACT that Homer's younger (and far LESS famous) brother, Gomer, wrote the TRUE story of TROY...
"BS or FACT?"
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tomwiii
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posted on February 3, 2007 06:14:10 PM new
Actually...
It looks MINOAN to me...
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niel35
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posted on February 3, 2007 06:39:27 PM new
Ralphie - sweet pup - its BS
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capolady
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posted on February 4, 2007 06:16:06 AM new
GOMER? Tom youre killing me - it looks like its time for a Citizens Arrest!!!
Remember the Biblical story of Moses and the making of the golden calf while he was receiving the tablets on Mt Sinai? That's what this reminds me of.
Probably way off but that's what came to my mind when I saw it.
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hwahwa
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posted on February 4, 2007 07:00:43 AM new
If you show the closeup of the motifs on his back and face,someone may be able to tell you.
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mamachia
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posted on February 4, 2007 07:13:19 AM new
I agree with Tom & Ralphie. It is indicative of the Minoan civilization, the Bull from Phaestos was depicted in paintings, sculptures and pottery. But then again, it could be an interpertation on the Trojan Horse.
mama
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blueyes29
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posted on February 4, 2007 07:44:03 AM new
Here's a couple more photos...Thanks for any insights...
[ edited by blueyes29 on Feb 4, 2007 07:46 AM ]
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buyhigh
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posted on February 4, 2007 07:45:26 AM new
Looks lke something out of Asia to me. A wheeled toy for a child or a copy of one. Is it brass or is it bronze?
buyhigh
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neglus
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posted on February 4, 2007 08:24:20 AM new
Check out this article - Bull Worship was a big deal in Egypt:
http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/bull.htm
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http://stores.ebay.com/Moody-Mommys-Marvelous-Postcards?refid=store
[ edited by neglus on Feb 4, 2007 08:24 AM ]
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blueyes29
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posted on February 4, 2007 10:53:06 AM new
Thanks, neglus...interesting article with good info. I THINK the figure is brass but don't know for sure...is there a way to tell the difference between bronze and brass?
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irked
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posted on February 4, 2007 12:05:15 PM new
The Romans worshiped a bull slit its throat in rituals in the time of Cesar and they had statues of bulls looked lot like these. I don't know any names but might look up Roman bull or something like that.
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buyhigh
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posted on February 4, 2007 02:29:17 PM new
Difficult for a layman to tell bronze from brass. Still think that the fact that the bull is on wheels is significant - sort of like a child's pull toy. Bulls have been sacred all over the Mediterranean area even before Egyptian and Greek times - in the Paleolithic period as well but they are also sacred in India and among Hindus in SE Asia..
buyhigh
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hwahwa
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posted on February 4, 2007 03:19:28 PM new
Brass tarnish easily,this cant be that old.
Does it stick to magnet??
The motif on its back should tell you something if you know how to interpret it.
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otteropp
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posted on February 4, 2007 03:44:36 PM new
I have been looking at this since you first posted it and keep coming back to it.
Maybe we are all too 'bullish'!
Isn't this the Trojan Horse that was built of wood and wheeled along with the soldiers inside?
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hwahwa
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posted on February 4, 2007 03:48:08 PM new
This is not a horse,this horse would not make it with such short legs!
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otteropp
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posted on February 4, 2007 03:48:21 PM new
As soon as I posted that I asked myself how many horses have horns!
I have found a drawing now of the Trojan horse and although it looked odd...it didn't have horns!
[ edited by otteropp on Feb 4, 2007 06:29 PM ]
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hwahwa
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posted on February 4, 2007 04:56:30 PM new
[edit] Possible explanation
Pausanias, who lived in the 2nd century AD, wrote on his book Description of Greece [1]:
That the work of Epeius was a contrivance to make a breach in the Trojan wall is known to everybody who does not attribute utter silliness to the Phrygians (1,XXIII,8)
where by Phrygians he means the Trojans. There has been some modern speculation that the Trojan Horse may have been a battering ram resembling, to some extent, a horse, and that the description of the use of this device was then transformed into a myth by later oral historians who were not present at the battle and were unaware of that meaning of the name. We know that Assyrians at the time used siege machines with animal names; it is possible that the Trojan Horse was such.
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otteropp
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posted on February 4, 2007 06:34:08 PM new
AaHa! Now I feel a bit better about my Horse with Horns!
It is many years since I went to school but
I had been reading that there is still no certainty about the existence of the Trojan Horse that it could be pure myth. I think you may have come up with the explanation but this darn thing has just looked so familiar to me since I first saw that photo.
I just know I have seen a parade or a painting of soldiers heading into battle with that animal on the wheels being pushed along. Has to be that era!
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blueyes29
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posted on February 4, 2007 08:16:00 PM new
Thanks all for the discussion...lots of good info but still nothing definitive...will continue to research your ideas...Yes, the figure DOES attract a magnet...so I'm assuming that it's bronze? I tested an item I have that I KNOW is bronze and that's also magnetized...is that an accurate assumption? I know what you mean otterropp...I just KNOW I've seen a similiar image but just can't place it...Thanks for all the help
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toasted36
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posted on February 4, 2007 09:07:44 PM new
A magnet will not stick to bronze, it looks cast iron /wrought iron with gold gilding or gold paint to me
http://home.comcast.net/~c.scheer/Identifying_Metals.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gilding
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blueyes29
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posted on February 4, 2007 10:24:03 PM new
Thanks, toasted...great sites! So I guess my "known" bronze isn't actually bronze after all...know anything about spelter? I did some research...it's a zinc alloy...does it attract a magnet? Still curious about this item...getting lots of good thoughts...thanks!
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aintrichyet
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posted on February 5, 2007 01:05:16 AM new
hey blueeyes... i had one of these from my in-laws antique shop estate, and i think i showed it to this group, but that was about 6 years ago. it was this exact same 'bull' on wheels, was some kind of gilt metal, and exceedingly heavy (like maybe 30 to 40-some lbs) (way too heavy for a pull toy) ... it was about 10 to 12 inches long. As I recall, this board, and I, never DID find out what it was...
[ edited by aintrichyet on Feb 5, 2007 03:20 AM ]
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hwahwa
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posted on February 5, 2007 06:45:58 AM new
alabastrite is heavy ,lots of recent years repros are made with such material and coated with bronze finish or metal finish du jour.
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buyhigh
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posted on February 5, 2007 07:53:40 AM new
The only metal that a magnet will stick to is iron. It will not stick to brass, lead or coated alabastrite etc so the figure is a gilded iron reproduction. Maybe the original was meant to be a pull toy.
buyhigh
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paloma91
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posted on February 5, 2007 03:36:30 PM new
If you think you have an ancient treasure, why not send fotos of the item to a museum. Find out where to send it, a specific person in a museum that specializes in that era (I think they will also need a foto of the bottom side) Provide as much info as you can: size, dimensions, magnet attraction etc. Maybe they can help more than we can here
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rhpepsi
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posted on February 5, 2007 06:44:10 PM new
Possibly from the ancint MARLIK culture of Northern Iran during the 10th-11th century B.C.??? Like others have stated...piece is probably a reproduction...
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buyhigh
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posted on February 11, 2007 06:54:27 AM new
Interesting footnote after so long a period of time but happened to attend a small flea market yesterday and saw a gilded horse figurine with the exact same wheels with the same markings and obviously from the source wherever and whatever that would be. It was also made from iron because a magnet stuck to it. The horse had very long legs and reins and was what you would call a stylized design - but looked nothing like the Trojan horse we usually see depicted. Asked the elderly lady about it and she could tell me nothing except that she had it for a very long time. The price marked was $5.00
buyhigh
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paloma91
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posted on February 11, 2007 07:08:29 AM new
Did you buy it?
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buyhigh
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posted on February 11, 2007 08:34:36 AM new
NO! I did not because I have enough dust collectors as it is and started selling on Ebay to get rid of all the ones I had packed away that I had no room to display and lost interest in. Besides from the stuff this lady was selling I gathered she had the same problem because she was not a professional dealer and was getting rid of a lot of plain old household stuff as well. She stated she thought she had "played with it" but faulty memory could be responsible for that statement. The horse as well as the bull look like crudely hand made imports from some Asian counry, India possibly although they like to use brass rather than iron that are reproductions of something ancient - at least to me.
buyhigh
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