posted on November 14, 2009 02:31:27 PM new
I apologize for the long description of the situation, but I am just trying to paint a full picture.
I have a bidder who has been difficult at best from the start. The item was a very heavy typewriter and I gave two shipping options, Fed Ex Ground ($28.75) and Priority Mail ($73+). As we know, Fed Ex is not supported on eBay. The bidder paid immediately after the listing ended, before I could send them an invoice including the Fed Ex Ground option. Within an hour of their payment, I emailed them and offered a refund for the difference if they wanted to save over $40 in shipping using Fed Ex Ground. No response. I emailed them two more times over the next 3 days. No response. I shipped the item via Priority Mail. Two days later I get an email from the bidder upset that his item hadn't arrived yet and that he paid such an outrageous amount for shipping (obviously never reading any of my emails) and wants a refund for shipping (this is before the item actually arrives). I sent him another email explaining the previous emails sent to him. He never mentioned he read them.
Finally, the typewriter arrives. He then emails me and states that the knob is broken and asked if I would help with the part. No problem on my end... but I emailed and asked for photos of the item so that I knew what he was referring to (and to verify the damage) and could check our local sources for the part. He never replies with photos.
A few days later he sends me the following email:
"A professional repairman looked at the subject typewriter and found that:
1.There is a broken platen knob.
2. There are two broken buttons on the front of the machine.
3. The margin set inside the machine is bent.
4. The paint job is not an original.
5. The machine is filthy and certainly not in excellent condition.
6. The platen shaft is bent.
7. The base is broken and is somewhat detached from the machine.
8. The value of similar machines being sold for parts only is greater than the value of this machine.
This is NOT in excellent condition. I want my money back soon, including delivery charges. I did not get what I paid for. Send the check to..."
----------
I had 16 photos on this item including close ups of wear, scratches, etc. I also included the following description-
IBM SELECTRIC I ELECTRIC TYPEWRITER
RARE PINK COLOR (this appears to have been a custom color).
Condition: Excellent condition. I have tested this and everything seems to work well. The ink ribbon is dry, but all keys are fully functional. Casing shows wear including paint rubbing and some minor scratches. I have detailed the wear in photos. I am not familiar with all of the technical mechanics of this unit, and I would say this could use a tune-up and cleaning to have it working like new.
Note: some photos show the typewriter without the element. The element is included.
I am not responsible for color fluctuations in the auction representation. Each computer monitor is different and may represent the color slightly than the actual color. All photos on my monitor represent the actual color of this item.
---------
I emailed him back with the following response-
"Hello. I received your email today. As noted in the listing, I am not familiar with this unit and I clearly stated this item would likely need cleaning and adjusting. I also stated that this was likely custom painted, never indicating that it was original paint. Please reread the listing and review the photos to verify this. The auction clearly shows that the knobs were in perfect condition. The unit worked fine when I tested it, other than the ink cartridge was dry. All keys and the power button also worked without problems. I am saying that if there was physical damage to the unit, it happened in transit. This would still be my responsibility to address, however I do need some proof of these damages.
Please consider that you are asking me to refund you $122.30 without any proof of the damages. Each email you send adds more problems with the typewriter yet no photographs. If you have received an estimate of damage from a professional serviceman you can substitute a copy of this instead of photos if the estimate includes the serial number of the unit. I willing to issuing a refund if it is warranted, however photos or a copy of the estimate are needed so I can verify your claim. Without photographs or documentation I cannot justify a refund. Once you have sent this, I will review them and get back to you. Thanks,"
-----------
Am I being unreasonable here? This bidder has been difficult to communicate with and has never really responded to any of my messages. He ignore the first 3 messages regarding shipping. Then emails me and demands a refund for shipping b/c it took so long. Then when the item arrives, he claims damage to one thing, then every email he sends adds to the list of claims on the item... and finally demands a full refund. I am finding it quite difficult to justify communicating further with this person if they simply ignore me and only complain and demand refunds during the entire transaction.
posted on November 14, 2009 02:36:03 PM new
I should add, I am really trying to help this person. If they file a claim, they will end up having to return the item back to me at their cost and get the same refund he is demanding without providing proof of any problems.
posted on November 14, 2009 02:46:36 PM new
You are not being unreasonable and your response was very professional.
This person seems to be a pita.
Has he posted feedback for others? Could be a serial complainer.
posted on November 14, 2009 03:08:02 PM new
Do you know the serial sumber of the typrewriter that you shipped to him? Even though the typewriter is pink, you just might need to know the serial number.
posted on November 14, 2009 03:42:36 PM new
My biggest concern would be his phrase "send the check to"
Since he paid immediately, I'm assuming it was though credit card or Paypal. I can't imagine it would be terribly hard for a crook to rack up a bunch of stolen card information, buy merchandise with a throwaway account on eBay, then demand refunds via check, cash them at check cashing agencies... and then walk away...
Maybe I'm being too cynical... but something doesn't smell right...
You really do attract all the good ones, don't you....
******************************
posted on November 14, 2009 04:25:20 PM new
i don't think he is dishonest in the fraud sense. i'm sure he is an older gentleman, as he indicated he worked security many many years ago for ibm and had to guard the door when this typewriter was being stored before its release.
i think he's being unreasonable and difficult. i have responded to all of his emails within 24 hours. he has only "responded" to one of my emails. I think i sent about 7 so far. when i say "responded" i mean, actually responding to information i stated in an email. otherwise he has ignored me.
what bothers me most are his demands for refunds... like shipping without just emailing me first to see if it had been shipped or to inquire when it would be shipped. i have a 3 day handling time listed, so he was way off in assuming it should have arrived so quickly to go as far as to demand a refund for shipping.
then he keeps finding things wrong with the item, but ignores my requests for photos. i'm standing my ground on this, as i am not letting go of $123 based on some bidder's claim the item is damaged. not to mention he emails me with a list that includes items i addressed in the listing and photographed. like it needing cleaning.
it's like he saw the title and bid on it. then expects it to be brand new from the early 1960's. kind of creepy if you ask me.
posted on November 14, 2009 04:27:30 PM new
as for attracting these... it sure as heck seems like that lately. what is funny is that the items are so different.
1) vintage typewriter
2) new peachtree accounting software
this particular account hasn't had any problems for a year now. all of a sudden, it's like raining an idiot parade on my sold list.
also, i already checked his feedback. he hasn't left anyone feedback. he's bought several items, most items are under $10 with cheap shipping. i may email one seller to inquire about his transaction. it was another vintage ibm piece and the seller is from oregon too. maybe he hates oregonians. lol.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Nov 14, 2009 04:29 PM ]
posted on November 14, 2009 05:19:28 PM new
Good grief. I just checked the auction, and you have WAY over pictured it. It's obvious that the complaints are based on a machine that was dropped in transit. (If the claims are true) The complaints of damage that would be apparent in the photos don't correspond to what I saw.
He may not have a camera to picture it as it is now, but should be able to tell the difference between what he's describing and what your pictures show.
I'd be at the post office with a copy of the auction photos.
posted on November 14, 2009 05:21:11 PM new
It is not that easy to win a dispute when it comes to electronic goods on Paypal.
Paypal will throw up a questionaire he has to answer,and if he does not get it right,Paypal software will rule that there is no ground for dispute and the case is closed.
In any case,he will not get his shipping back unless you have committed fraud like selling him a pencil sharpener instead of a typewriteR or a Toshiba instead of IBM.
Or a typewriter made by another IBM-Intl Bongo Machine!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on November 14, 2009 11:38:43 PM new
I sympathize! However. . . I'm wondering if you might have over-promised with the "excellent condition" statement? With all the photos you needed to include in the description, would "workable condition" have been clearer?
However, I also agree with the OP here that the package might have been dropped or damaged somehow in transit.
_____________________
"Here in America we are descended in blood and in spirit from revolutionists and rebels - men and women who ***dared to dissent*** from accepted doctrine. As their heirs, ***may we never confuse honest dissent with disloyal subversion."*** --Eisenhower
posted on November 15, 2009 04:52:08 AM new
From my experience and I might be wrong so let me know.
When the word Excellent condition is used that means an item that is new and taken out of the box or has no box and never used.
Mint condition means Never used and has everything original, and never taken out of the box.
Good working order might have been a better way to describe this typewriter since it was vintage and used and had a few minor adjustments that were needed.
Evidently this buyer don't read auction descriptions and don't read emails.
Did your auction state that if the buyer wanted the lower shipping rate to wait for an invoice from you? Because as you say ebay does not support Fed Ex.
Is there a way that you can speak to the buyer and get this straightened out over the phone. Because emails are not working.
What your asking from the buyer is reasonable and you have every right to want to see photos or proof of these damages.
posted on November 15, 2009 05:56:18 AM new
It seems the buyer is willing to pay USPS priority shipping for an 'excellent' used worn typewriter!
The word 'excellent' is confusing,how can an imperfect typewriter be 'excellent'?
May be in the future,you want to consider limiting the types of merchandise you sell on Ebay.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on November 15, 2009 07:01:14 AM new
I don't believe I would have used the term "excellent condition" either. You were very honest in listing/showing all the flaws but putting excellent condition in the listing will give him a claim with paypal.
I think I would call him as well - there needs to be a claim filed with the post office.
As to the shipping options - have you tried using the UPS calculator option and stating that it will not be UPS but FedEx? If the rate is comparable, that would help you avoid the original issue with the shipping time.
It's so unfair that ebay won't allow for FedEx shipping.
posted on November 15, 2009 07:17:31 AM new
Post office is fed up with individual sellers selling used items and filing claims.
There are excuses they use and there is nothing you can do if they deny the claim-such as outside box is not damaged,you did not pack it according to USPS guidelines .
UPS and Fed Exp are also fed up with individuals selling used electronic goods without original packing material,used goods are in fragile condition and without the original carton,they are more prone to damage.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on November 15, 2009 07:30:04 AM new
I am just jumping in here with the FedEx ground shipping option. I generally ship priority mail, but am selling some items for my husband's company and they are shipping fedex ground. I pick the line in the shipping as standard shipping option. I realize this will not work for heavy items, still need to be calculated, but for smaller items it works just fine.
posted on November 15, 2009 07:42:15 AM new
I dont even bother to give them a choice,I will use USPS first class shipping,one flat rate for domestic and add 1-3 dollars more for overseas shipping.If it were metal ,then I will add more $$ for overseas.
Sometimes I will use USPS priority shipping for expensive/breakable items.
Make life easy for yourself and for your customer,use one flat rate for domestic shipping.
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
[ edited by hwahwa on Nov 15, 2009 07:43 AM ]
posted on November 15, 2009 07:52:10 AM new
hwahwa - that may work if you live in Texas but believe me that won't work if you live in Florida. You would be overcharging half your customers and undercharging half you customer. I don't think the DSRs can stand that.
posted on November 15, 2009 08:14:36 AM new
If it is over 14 oz,then I ship parcel post.
Also most of the items I sell are small and light,so one flat rate for all domestic buyers work fine.
Rarely does anyone ask me to ship Fed Exp or UPS,I figure they all receive their mail through the post office.
Too many choices,too many decisions and more ways things can go wrong !so they are limited to one choice only-good old post office.
(If they want other carriers,they can always ask me,but in all these years of selling on internet,may be 5 off ebay buyers did)
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on November 15, 2009 09:00:30 AM new
Consider this... with sports cards there are so many words used to describe condition: Pristine, Mint, Near Mint, Excellent +, Excellent, Good, Fair, Poor. Is there a standard that everyone will know the difference between Mint and Near Mint? I doubt it, though you can now have your sports card graded. The word excellent is completely subjective and it is obvious nobody here knows exactly what that means.
Next time I will avoid using any non-descript words like "excellent" altogether and stick to describing the actual item and any condition concerns in a specific manner.
If there is physical damage to the unit it was caused either by the post office or the buyer. As it was wrapped in plastic and then placed in a rigid box with packing peanuts that kept it snug. I wonder if the box was opened by the PO and then not repacked properly. I had that happen once many years ago. The bidder confirmed with photos that the box was retaped with Priority Tape, not the clear tape I use.
hwahwa - "May be in the future,you want to consider limiting the types of merchandise you sell on Ebay."
In my business I have learned one thing. Never expect things to always run smoothly. Enjoy the sun but when it rains it pours. My experience is that things happen in groups. I will go months without finding a sofa, and then find 6 sofas in a few weeks. I will find a rare piece at one thrift store, and then find a perfect match down the road at another thrift store... only to never see the same item again.
I have never limited what I sell on ebay and don't plan to stop selling vintage items any time soon. That is what my business is and with over 1000 positives and high DSRs, that should tell you that I actually do a pretty good job describing, photographing, and shipping unsual items. I've hit a bump in the road this past week, but it isn't going to stop me from selling oddball items, especially if they are worth alot.
The software bidder was a fluke, especially considering I sold 5 other copies of it without any misunderstanding from the other bidders, and the item was listed appropriately... just that the bidder either had buyers remorse or misunderstood the listing that everyone else understood. It happens all the time on eBay and this week was apparently my turn.
posted on November 15, 2009 09:55:42 AM new
Like one contractor said to me-handyman is fine ,they are jack of all trades,they do everything and good at nothing!
It looks like you have found your match,or been outmatched-
"A professional repairman looked at the subject typewriter and found that:
1.There is a broken platen knob.
2. There are two broken buttons on the front of the machine.
3. The margin set inside the machine is bent.
4. The paint job is not an original.
5. The machine is filthy and certainly not in excellent condition.
6. The platen shaft is bent.
7. The base is broken and is somewhat detached from the machine.
8. The value of similar machines being sold for parts only is greater than the value of this machine.
This is NOT in excellent condition. I want my money back soon, including delivery charges. I did not get what I paid for. Send the check to..."
//////////////
If I were in your shoes,I would pick up the phone and talk to him,being an ex IBMer,he wants to start an IBM museum housed with all kinds of IBM dinosaurs.
As we all know ,dinosaurs are dead ,they died a long time ago,so what is he going to do with this piece of dead meat?
He has retired and probably have no money problem,nostalgia is the theme of his retirment hobby.
Appeal to his brand loyalty,praise his employer 'Big Blue' as the greatest company on earth and offer a partial refund,he is not going to get his priority shipping fee back,let him keep this machine,give him a partial refund and file for partial FVF back from Ebay and move on to your next venture-sofa or pinball machine or another dinosaur!
* I bet you,he is sitting on a big chunk of IBM shares,ask humbly if you should invest in IBM ??
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
posted on November 15, 2009 02:51:59 PM new
"Like one contractor said to me"
Wow, taking philosophy from a contractor. That truly legitimizes your comments. LOL. P-L-E-A-S-E! Contractors are one step below used car salesmen... in fact, i have met much more honest used car salesmen than i have contractors. have you ever met a contractor that stayed within budget or got things right the first time??? enough said.
you implication that i provide poor quality service and/or products by comparing me to a handyman is a blatant insult.
i was simply asking whether it was unreasonable for me to ask for photos and/or proof of damage b/c a low feedback bidder has literally ignored my all of my responses/questions/comments, only sending me requests for refunds and complaints about an item.
posted on November 15, 2009 03:09:45 PM new
On one hand,you defendd the handyman by discrediting the contractor,on the other hand,you said I insulted you by comparing you to a lowly handyman.
Make up your mind please!
Handyman is not lowly,in fact some high and mighty contractor and home builders and interior decorators and even UAW members are now handyman.
I found out the hard way when I let 2 handymen did my floor tile in the bathroom,they did not remove the toilet!
I just mopped my floor and cleaned my toilet seat,which qualifies me to be a handyman!
Now you just insult the used car salesman,put on your helmet,we may have some car salesman on this forum!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
[ edited by hwahwa on Nov 15, 2009 03:11 PM ]
posted on November 15, 2009 04:47:57 PM new
"On one hand,you defendd the handyman by discrediting the contractor,on the other hand,you said I insulted you by comparing you to a lowly handyman."
You obviously missed who made the insult against handymen and myself when you said, "Like one contractor said to me-handyman is fine ,they are jack of all trades,they do everything and good at nothing! It looks like you have found your match,or been outmatched-"
Outmatched? Didn't know I was playing a game here. I have done nothing but attempt to resolve this problem for a customer, and I asked others if for input whether I was overreaching by asking the bidder to send me some photos of the damage he claims there is.
Before shipping the item I tried to save him $40+ in shipping by emailing him 3 times with no response. After waiting a few days, I shipped it. Finally, when I hear from him he obviously ignored my previous emails, and wants a refund for shipping (5th business day after auction ended) complaining about paying for "premium" shipping costs when it was never implied. He then complained about the item being damaged and if I would help him find parts. I asked him to send me photos so I knew what he was referring to. No response. He then comes back with a laundry list of problems from a "professional" who I guess is supposed to outmatch me (according to hwa), of which his complaints were clearly stated in the listing (custom pink, item needed cleaning/tune up). Everything else happened after I shipped it if it is even damaged. I don't really know b/c he hasn't provided anything to support his claim. I have only asked for photos so I know what he is referring to, and can put some of the pieces together (figuratively) in his story. If he replied with some real information other than emails demanding refunds, then I would be happy to help and issue a refund, even shipping costs if it calls for it.
I'm not an expert in repairs and tune ups on typewriters, but I am also not going to sell something that isn't working properly, or not mention a problem if there is one. Why would I want to lose all that money after spending all that time getting it ready for listing? As I said, I've sold thousands of vintage items, most without a hitch. It's not like this item was expensive either. The opening bid was only $24.99. I included tons of photos, close ups, and details of the item. He can tell that the auction photos don't match up with his claims of damage, if he's bothered to look at them.
If he worked for IBM and had concerns about the item, he could have easily sent me a question. I always answer them. When I buy items on eBay I always ask questions before bidding if something needs clarification or if I have concerns. Communicating with this bidder is like clapping with one hand.
[ edited by shagmidmod on Nov 15, 2009 04:54 PM ]
posted on November 15, 2009 06:17:41 PM newall of a sudden, it's like raining an idiot parade on my sold list.
AMEN! I have had more requests for returns in the late couple of weeks than in all my time on eBay. Blame eBay's contention that the buyer is always right and the seller is always wrong.
Hope this all works out for you! I can certainly empathize.
Cheryl
http://www.youravon.com/cherylblevins
Now you can buy Avon from me from anywhere in the world.
[ edited by CBlev65252 on Nov 15, 2009 06:23 PM ]
posted on November 15, 2009 07:14:11 PM new
The Ebay email system may not be working right,I just have a winning bidder who claimed to have emailed me several times on buying insurance on his item.
Where has he been?Ebay removed the insurance options months ago.
[ edited by hwahwa on Nov 16, 2009 06:50 AM ]
posted on November 16, 2009 07:10:20 AM new
it's been 3 days since receiving my last message from him. maybe it is me, but i expect to get an email in the next two-three days asking where his refund is. who knows, he may start demanding interest! lol. that is how it is going with this bidder.
posted on November 16, 2009 07:13:26 AM new
hwa- i've been saying for two weeks that the messaging system isn't working properly. over the last few months i have had several reports from bidders claiming to not receive messages and/or they have sent me messages that i haven't received.
i called ebay about it twice and all they do is tell me that the system is working properly. coincidence that a bidder can rate you on communication using a failing communication system???
posted on November 16, 2009 09:39:45 AM new
may be he wil go away.
or busy fixing the type writer with his buddy the expert repair man,I bet you he is another IBM retiree looking to get busy!
*
There is no 'Global savings glut',only wild horses and loose bankers.
