posted on November 19, 2004 02:23:00 PM
I know we've already discussed this incident. But I'd like to ask any who support our troops....to sign this petition, letting them know that we're behind them.
link provided below. Thank you.
---
THE PATRIOT PERSPECTIVE
Damned if they do, Dead if they don't...
In their latest campaign to eradicate Jihadi vermin on the Iraqi warfront with Jihadistan, U.S. Marines and Army infantry have, in the last two weeks, purged Fallujah of more than 5,000 terrorist insurgents who were dug in throughout the city. The combat has been fierce.
A week into the Fallujah operation, an NBC photographer embedded with the 3rd Battalion, 1st Marine Regiment, recorded video of a young combat-hardened Marine entering a room in a mosque where he found several insurgents on the floor under covers. Unable to determine if these enemy combatants were injured, dead or preparing to ambush his unit, the Marine raised his rifle in preparation to defend himself and his fellow Marines. When he detected movement from one of the combatants, the Marine yelled, "He's (expletive) faking he's dead! He's faking he's (expletive) dead!" and killed the Jihadi -- and that is where this story should have ended.
As it turned out, however, the Jihadi had been wounded the day before and the NBC photographer, Kevin Sites (whose photographs are featured on many anti-war Website), stepped up to get his 15 seconds of fame. Sites turned the video over to his network, telling them that he did not think the Jihadi was a threat, and within 24 hours, Lefty lynch mobs were forming to hang themselves a Marine.
Notably, the loudest protests of "war crimes" were from those who have never been closer to combat than the distance between their living-room lounge chairs and TVs. (Of course, it is a war crime to store weapons in a mosque as was documented, but the Lefties are not protesting that.) Indeed, the Leftmedia's mindless promotion of this video (as with the Abu Ghraib feeding frenzy: see -- http://FederalistPatriot.US/alexander/edition.asp?id=258) was tantamount to shaking a hornet's nest -- making the task of our fighting forces in Fallujah and elsewhere in the region all the more difficult.
Actions have consequences, and the exploitation of this video empowered Jihadis in the region -- in effect, making life very difficult for our Armed Forces.
But what you're not hearing from NBC's Tom Brokaw or any other Leftmedia talkingheads in their wholesale condemnation of this incident is that Jihadis (knowing that U.S. military personnel have the decency to tend to wounded enemy combatants) have routinely booby-trapped the bodies of dead insurgents. In fact, one member of the Marine squad now being scrutinized was killed (and five others wounded) when attempting to check on a wounded Jihadi only days earlier. In addition, the Marine now being questioned for killing this wounded Jihadi suffered a wound to his face a day earlier when an injured Jihadi fired on him.
These facts notwithstanding, the Left and their media minions have now made this young Marine their poster boy for U.S. atrocities.
Here, we would remind these hypocrites that a few short weeks ago, they were doing all in their power to support John F. Kerry's campaign for the most powerful office in the world. This would be the same JFK who received a Silver Star (with and erroneous "V" for chasing a wounded Vietcong combatant (described as a young boy in a loin cloth) around a hutch and shooting him in the back.
While we have strenuously questioned the merits of John Kerry's Silver Star for this action, we have never questioned his decision to kill this VC enemy, whom he judged to be a threat to his boat crew. By the Kerry standard, the young Marine in question should get a Silver Star. (Of course, enlisted personnel really have to do something spectacular to pin one of those on.)
Now that the Left is once again decrying military actions to liberate Iraq, please take a moment and join more than 115,000 grateful Americans who have already signed An Open Letter in Support of America's Armed Forces in support of our Patriots in uniform. These American Soldiers, Sailors, Airmen, Marines and Coast Guardsmen have plowed the ground for liberty while protecting their countrymen back home. We remain the proud and the free because they have stood bravely in harm's way and remain on post today.
For this, we, the American People, offer our heartfelt thanks. Please support our troops--let your voice be heard! Join fellow Patriots on the front lines in defense of our liberty and national sovereignty. Link to --
---
Memo to the Pentagon: Leave the reporters embedded, but have them check their cameras in the rear. Otherwise, the resulting Leftist hype will continue to jeopardize our mission -- and jeopardize the lives of American military personnel.
--------
Quote of the week...
"Some 40 Marines have just lost their lives cleaning out one of the world's worst terror dens, in Fallujah, yet all the world wants to talk about is the NBC videotape of a Marine shooting a prostrate Iraqi inside a mosque.
---
... The al-Zarqawi TV network, also known as Al-Jazeera, has broadcast the tape to the Arab world, and U.S. media have also played it up. The point seems to be to conjure up images again of Abu Ghraib, further maligning the American purpose in Iraq. Never mind that the pictures don't come close to telling us about the context of the incident, much less what was on the mind of the soldier after days of combat. Put yourself in that Marine's boots. He and his mates have had to endure some of the toughest infantry duty imaginable, house-to-house urban fighting against an enemy that neither wears a uniform nor obeys any normal rules of war. ...
When not disemboweling Iraqi women, these killers hide in mosques and hospitals, booby-trap dead bodies, and open fire as they pretend to surrender. Their snipers kill U.S. soldiers out of nowhere. According to one account, the Marine in the videotape had seen a member of his unit killed by another insurgent pretending to be dead. Who from the safety of his Manhattan sofa has standing to judge what that Marine did in that mosque?" --The Wall Street Journal
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 19, 2004 02:38:48 PM
From the fascist thread:
2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights - Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or
even approve of torture,
summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.
3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause - The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.
posted on November 19, 2004 04:00:03 PM
I'm a conservative Republican. I do agree with the war and support our troops. I post here enough that my opinions ought to be pretty well known.
I aware of the habit of booby-trapping themselves and the possibility of the Iraqi having a second hidden weapon. I do admit that the soldiers were facing a risk in this situation.
That being said, I saw the video of the soldier killing the "playing dead" Iraqi. I think the soldier killed the Iraqi just for fun. The tone of his voice with the "He's dead now!" statement just screams to me that this guy has no business carrying a gun.
I support our soldiers. I'm just not going to support THIS soldier.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 19, 2004 04:11:22 PM
Sorry, in war you don't get to pre-approve the soldiers who do the slaughtering for you.
Get over it, that's war, you voted for it.
posted on November 19, 2004 04:26:21 PM
replay - Did you even read the petition? It's not for this one soldiers whose actions you disagree with....it's for all of them....145,000 [approx] and what they've done.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 19, 2004 05:14:05 PM
"Memo to the Pentagon: Leave the reporters embedded, but have them check their cameras in the rear. Otherwise, the resulting Leftist hype will continue to jeopardize our mission -- and jeopardize the lives of American military personnel. "
posted on November 19, 2004 05:14:58 PM
I'd rather show support in a more tangible method. Thanks to Japerton again posting the address for http://anysoldier.com over in EO I found a group of Marines in Iraq that over the next few days I am shipping packages of items they stated they needed or just wanted. Cost me all of 1 days profit (maybe 2 with the shipping ) but I figure in the end it's pretty invaluable and I think it says a lot more than some signature on a piece of paper.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Nov 19, 2004 05:24 PM ]
[ edited by fenix03 on Nov 19, 2004 05:25 PM ]
posted on November 19, 2004 05:17:25 PM
"Did you even read the petition? "
Actually, No. Internet petitions don't mean a darn thing to anybody, much less soldiers who are too busy staying alive to play on the internet like we do all day. Although this site does not appear to be a fraud, I just don't see the point.
"eradicate Jihadi vermin"
"al-Zarqawi TV network, also known as Al-Jazeera"
"or any other Leftmedia talkingheads"
The tone of this article doesn't sit right with me. As I said, I'm for the war and our troops, but the writer of this article isn't helping the cause using phrases like those above. On another thread I discussed my dislike of Michael Savage. This guy sounds just like him.
I've been going on for weeks about morals with certain posters on this board. This feels like one of the times they get put to the test.
posted on November 19, 2004 05:49:09 PM
Just a side note, and of course just my personal opinion, what occurred here is totally different than what happened at Abu Ghraib prison. This Marine was still in "active engagement" mode, and did what he thought was appropriate in that situation to keep himself and his fellow marines alive. I don't question his actions; I in fact question the reporter's motives.
Now, as for the prison....that should never have happened. Period. If we are truly the #1 military in the world, as I believe we are, then we need to act it...always be professional and get the job done.
"Who's tending the bar? Sniping works up a thirst"
posted on November 19, 2004 05:52:10 PM
You know I've signed it.
The story of Fallujah isn't on that NBC videotape.
Semper Fi
The story of Fallujah isn't on that NBC videotape.
Thursday, November 18, 2004 12:01 a.m. EST
Some 40 Marines have just lost their lives cleaning out one of the world's worst terror dens, in Fallujah, yet all the world wants to talk about is the NBC videotape of a Marine shooting a prostrate Iraqi inside a mosque. Have we lost all sense of moral proportion?
The al-Zarqawi TV network, also known as Al-Jazeera, has broadcast the tape to the Arab world, and U.S. media have also played it up. The point seems to be to conjure up images again of Abu Ghraib, further maligning the American purpose in Iraq. Never mind that the pictures don't come close to telling us about the context of the incident, much less what was on the mind of the soldier after days of combat.
Put yourself in that Marine's boots. He and his mates have had to endure some of the toughest infantry duty imaginable, house-to-house urban fighting against an enemy that neither wears a uniform nor obeys any normal rules of war. Here is how that enemy fights, according to an account in the Times of London:
"In the south of Fallujah yesterday, U.S. Marines found the armless, legless body of a blonde woman, her throat slashed and her entrails cut out. Benjamin Finnell, a hospital apprentice with the U.S. Navy Corps, said that she had been dead for a while, but at that location for only a day or two. The woman was wearing a blue dress; her face had been disfigured. It was unclear if the remains were the body of the Irish-born aid worker Margaret Hassan, 59, or of Teresa Borcz, 54, a Pole abducted two weeks ago. Both were married to Iraqis and held Iraqi citizenship; both were kidnapped in Baghdad last month."
When not disemboweling Iraqi women, these killers hide in mosques and hospitals, booby-trap dead bodies, and open fire as they pretend to surrender. Their snipers kill U.S. soldiers out of nowhere. According to one account, the Marine in the videotape had seen a member of his unit killed by another insurgent pretending to be dead. Who from the safety of his Manhattan sofa has standing to judge what that Marine did in that mosque?
Beyond the one incident, think of what the Marine and Army units just accomplished in Fallujah. In a single week, they killed as many as 1,200 of the enemy and captured 1,000 more. They did this despite forfeiting the element of surprise, so civilians could escape, and while taking precautions to protect Iraqis that no doubt made their own mission more difficult and hazardous. And they did all of this not for personal advantage, and certainly not to get rich, but only out of a sense of duty to their comrades, their mission and their country.
In a more grateful age, this would be hailed as one of the great battles in Marine history--with Guadalcanal, Peleliu, Hue City and the Chosin Reservoir. We'd know the names of these military units, and of many of the soldiers too. Instead, the name we know belongs to the NBC correspondent, Kevin Sites.
We suppose he was only doing his job, too. But that doesn't mean the rest of us have to indulge in the moral abdication that would equate deliberate televised beheadings of civilians with a Marine shooting a terrorist, who may or may not have been armed, amid the ferocity of battle
A Casualty of the Watched War
By Ralph Kinney Bennett
Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity.
-- EZEKIEL 9:5
What would I do?
In a mosque.
In Fallujah.
With the battle still ringing in my ears.
With my face still stinging from yesterday's wound when that booby-trapped body of a dead enemy fighter blew up, killing one of my fellow Marines.
When the body by the wall in that rubble-strewn room moved.
What would I do?
How many million times in the long annals of war has the blurred moment in some small corner of a battlefield brought death -- death faster than thought, faster than the swiftest moral reflection?
Death to innocents. Death to the helpless, the wounded.
And to the treacherous.
The times are past counting. Most probably remain hidden, known only to the surviving participants - the awful secrets of combat, when men fight to the death and a terrible pragmatism chokes off restraint and even feeling.
Some are cold murders.
But many are simply moments. Moments beyond morality, beyond any kind of civilized measurement, beyond the ken of those of us who have not been caught in the bloody maelstrom of battle.
But this thing in Fallujah was not hidden.
Little is hidden in this watched war, this most watched of wars.
The embedded camera pries and spies.
It sees all.
And tells nothing.
"Shooting in Iraq Mosque Angers Muslims," reads the headline to an Associated Press account of the incident. It informs us of the "dramatic footage of the shooting that aired through the day on Al-Jazeera."
We in America have seen the "footage," too, although the actual shooting has been excised. We have seen the footage again and again.
So the terrible instant, the blurred moment, for some young Marine, has been transformed into an endless instant replay for the meticulous judgment of all those of us who might consider ourselves even-tempered, schooled in civil ways and sure of our moral compass, our inherent tenderness.
We are spared the footage of an innocent Iraqi woman who did nothing but good for her country being blindfolded and shot in the back of the head. We are spared the carefully planned and staged decapitations in blood filled rooms by masked terrorist cowards.
But we must see, over and over, this watched moment.
And each time the grim scene runs, that moment -- the gritty, chaotic moment of decision or instinct or reflex -- recedes more rapidly from reality, from the only truth to the thing, a truth somewhere inside one young Marine, at the razor edge of his own life in the midst of battle.
Americans again prove Pres Bush is the best man for the job
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." --John Stuart Mill
Linda, would you sign a petition to support the troops with the same organization that also ran a petition to support the liberal agenda and a petition to charge Bush with war crimes???
posted on November 19, 2004 06:47:21 PM
While we're so self-righteously preaching about honoring our soldiers why don't we petition our government to give us back the freedom of the press, the freedom of speech so we can honor the returning war dead.
Let these who gave everything for this country be greeted like heros.
With ceremony befitting their contribution.
With respect.
Not quietly snuck into the country in their caskets like people who have done something dishonorable.
Their flag draped coffins should be on the front page of every newspaper if we TRULY honor them and what they have done.
But, no, we are not ALLOWED to even take their pictures, no ceremonial bands are playing, no speeches are given.....they are brought back as if they are something to be ashamed of...........
So don't talk about "honoring" the living soldiers if you believe, as bush does, we should show no respect for our dead.
posted on November 19, 2004 07:05:45 PM
Thank you bear. I know you know how much it means to them so hear they have our support.
----------------
fenix - I do something similar. Each week my girlfriend and I go over to our neighboring town and at the VFW we pack boxes. Boxes filled with donations the citizens of surrounding towns have dropped in the big bins at different shops, stores, etc. We try to be sure each box gets equal amounts and then, after they're packed, we have a couple of guys who take them to to PO to mail out. Each week we've been sending out approx. 30 - 35 boxes each week....and the letters of thanks that we get back from our soldiers would give you goose bumps. They REALLY appreciate that the people back home care about them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 19, 2004 07:47:43 PM
replay: I didn't think the solider shot him for fun. I thought he was scared. Didn't you hear the alarm and the obviously over-heightened adrenalin in his voice? I did.
Funny how we not only 'read' things differently, but also completely 'hear' differently.
Linda, if it helps them, I'll sign this thing. But I like the package idea way better myself.
To tell that tale was the motive of this thread. Sending letters and boxes of goodies is total BS busy work for old ladies. Bullet proof vests would be a better contribution. The best support of our troops is to make an effort to end this war. This is NOT a war on terrorism. It's goddam crazy to believe that you can draw a circle in the mideast, kill everybody in that circle and think that you have won a war on terrorism. In addition to the 100,000 innocent Iraqis already killed, thousands more will be killed. thousands more Americans will be killed and the end result will be MORE highly motivated terrorists throughout the world and a less safe America.
posted on November 20, 2004 07:23:01 AM
Helen, how many Colonial and British soldiers were killed in the war to bring Democracy to what later became the United States in 1776?
Does anyone know the numbers off the top of their head? I bet not. The numbers are irrelevant today. Only the results of their sacrifice really matter.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
Replay, The American Revolution had a goal that was achievable....A military war on terrorism in one spot - Iraq - is not.
In other words, if you razed the entire country of Iraq, terrorism would only increase throughout the world.
The United States, Russia and Israel cannot fight terrorism with military action and win.
As the Bush administration said, the war against terrorism is a different kind of war...but they are fighting it as if it's the Revolutionary war that you mentioned.
posted on November 20, 2004 08:34:21 AM
Ya, we've come a long way, baby......still killing to solve problems.....200 years and we didn't improve a whole lot , did we?
posted on November 20, 2004 09:08:42 AM
The whole thing has been misnamed. The war in Afghanistan was about terrorism. The war in Iraq was about getting rid of Saddam and bringing Democracy to Iraq.
They aren't looking for Al-Qaeda in Iraq, they're fighting Iraqi resistance to Democracy.
The war in Iraq is very similar to the Revolutionary war here. Do you suppos all the Colonials wanted Independance? Nope. There were plenty of British sympathizers and "resisitance fighters" during that war too.
Do you supposed when that war was over that no one ever said they wished things would go back to the previous ways, and let Britain come back and take over? Sure there were. Sometimes the old ways look better,
Does anyone want Britain to come take us over now? No. We're past that point in our thinking, just as the Iraqis will be in a generation (hopefully).
In forty years, a stable, Democratic Iraq could be the turning point for real peace in the mideast. Note I said forty years. It'll take at least a generation. There won't be peace there in this generation, it's just impossible.
The Afghan and Iraqi governments are in transition. The Saudi government is hanging on by a thread and could collapse any day. Things are changing over there. We need to be at the center of that change or things could still get worse. Iran is gearing up and preparing for their big move.
Do we want them to overrun the entire middle east? No we don't.
The time to make a stand is now, before things get even more out of hand. Things CAN get worse, and we pull out now it WILL get worse, faster than you can imagine,
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 20, 2004 09:46:00 AM
At least we agree that the Iraq war is not a war on terrorism. Many people have been misled to believe that it's a military action against terrorism. It would make more sense to believe that it's a war to protect Israel or to control the oil of the Mideast or to establish a military base from which we could fight an imperialistic battle. But to believe that this war is being waged to bring Democracy to one small country in the Mideast is unbelievable. Think about the number of countries throughout the world that are not democracies. Will we be in the business of nation building - waging war to install our kind of democracy everywhere???
Terrorism is our problem and we should focus on that...not nation building.
posted on November 20, 2004 10:21:55 AM
"It would make more sense to believe that it's a war to protect Israel or to control the oil of the Mideast or to establish a military base"
Those are all side benefits that are real, but are not the main goal. The main goal is to diffuse the hotbed of trouble known as the entire middle east.
"But to believe that this war is being waged to bring Democracy to one small country in the Mideast is unbelievable."
If you look at a map, Iraq is one of the bigger countries in the region. and they are not insignificant, they are one of the most technologically advanced in the region as well. Despite what the media would have you believe, they're not all a bunch of sand bandits.
"Think about the number of countries throughout the world that are not democracies. Will we be in the business of nation building - waging war to install our kind of democracy everywhere??? "
You mean like after WWII, or the Korean War or the Vietnam War of Kosovo or Kuwait or Afghansitan? I think we've been in the Democracy building business a very long time. There are more democracies today than at any time in the worlds history. Not all of those countries I listed above were successful, but some were. Every one that grows and flourishes is an example to the non-democracies in the region.
A Democratic Iraq is not the ultimate goal here. Setting up a successful free democracy in the middle-east that is a shining example to the others of what the benefits of freedom and democracy is all about is the medium term goal. The conversion of ALL those countries to democracy is the ultimate goal. No Democratic country has EVER invaded another democratic country.
Look at China. They aren't Democratic, not yet. But the extreme financial success of their near neighbors (Japan, Taiwan, Singapore, etc) has had the effect of opening up their markets. As capitalism growns, their people are demanding more freedoms. I'm not going to say they'll be fully democratic in the next five years, but they will be before many more decades elapse.
I understand your viewpoint that war is a bad thing. But war is NOT to be avoided at all costs. Sometimes it is the best solution to the problem at hand. A little war in Iraq right now is far better than the eventual BIG war that is inevitable if something isn't done about that region.
And yes, the loss of 1100 troops is still a VERY small war compared to WWII. There were more than 1500 deaths on a single sunken battleship in that war. Do you really believe that if we do nothing in the middle-east that there won't be an eventual WWII sized war develop because of the festering hatred that just goes on and on in the region? As more of those countries get nukes, it will be more and more difficult to save the region. Iran is nearly there. Once they get there, what's to keep them from selling nukes to the others?
It's now or never.
--------------------------------------
We do not stop playing because we grow old. We grow old because we stop playing -- Anonymous
posted on November 20, 2004 10:59:33 AM
Replay, You cut off my statement....It was, "It would make more sense to believe that it's a war to protect Israel or to control the oil of the Mideast or to establish a military base from which we could fight an imperialistic battle."
Those words that you omitted cannot be considered a "side benefit".
Although I don't agree with your ideas, I do recognize that you are becoming sharp, Replay.
posted on November 20, 2004 12:44:19 PM
Helen - you will have to forgive me but I chose to send the items that were specifically requested by the Marines I chose as opposed to the ones that you suggested. Call me kooky but I think they know what they want and need.
Would I love to have them all coming home, or better let, to never have gone in the first place as opposed to being there and many relying on the kindness of strangers for everyday things we take for granted? Of course I would. But that is not reality and if you are going to survive and thrive in this world you have to accept the reality of things as they are even as you work to change them.
And damnit... I am not old
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
[ edited by fenix03 on Nov 20, 2004 12:44 PM ]
Shortly after the war started, the Pentagon requested that unsolicited mail not be sent because it could not handle massive amounts of mail. Apparently, the fellow who operates the site that you suggested has found a way to skirt that Pentagon request by listing names. According to whois, the site is registered in Melbourne Australia.
You say, "Helen - you will have to forgive me but I chose to send the items that were specifically requested by the Marines I chose as opposed to the ones that you suggested. Call me kooky but I think they know what they want and need."
I didn't suggest anything other than bullet proof vests. I can't accept this reality with patience and resignation so I choose to focus on making an effort in another way to change that which I so strongly disapprove. I know that my individual effort is minimal just as your's will be but collectively, I hope that we will make a difference.
Call you Kooky? How ludicrous! But even if you were Kooky, you would be a young Kooky.
posted on November 20, 2004 03:36:08 PM
helen says....as if she knows what my intentions are better than I do.
To tell that tale was the motive of this thread.
You have been wrong each and everytime you use your crystal ball to speak about or for me.
MY intent was to get all who were willing to sign the petition so our soldiers could see that many American's truly support them. Nothing more, nothing less. Except your over active imagination of course.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
posted on November 20, 2004 03:44:46 PM
fenix - I'd be interested in some of the items 'your' soldier requested, if you'd be willing to share.
Ours here ask mostly for personal items like: toliet paper, soap, deodorant, eye wash, q-tips, powdered foot care items, sunglasses, socks, writing paper, envelopes, pens, disposable razors, shaving cream, lotions, sun blockers, bandaids, cans of Vienna sausages, cans of tuna, cans of hash and other heat-and-eat canned foods. Then of course gum, cookies, candy, etc.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Four More Years....YES!!!
for chasing a wounded Vietcong combatant (described as a young boy in a loin cloth) around a hutch and shooting him in the back.
Sniping works up a thirst"