Columbine copycats Boys plotted to hit Saint John High, police say
Richard Foot, with files by Mike TraikosCanWest News Service
March 18, 2005
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SAINT JOHN, N.B. - Three teenage boys have been arrested for allegedly conspiring to seize control of a school and methodically murder some of its students and teachers.
Police found gunpowder and other material used for making pipe bombs at the boys' homes and believe the youths had practised making bombs.
The boys, aged 15 to 17, were Saint John air cadets and their alleged plot was planned for April 20, the anniversary of the 1999 Columbine High School massacre where 12 students and a teacher were killed.
At a Saint John bail hearing for the two eldest teenagers on Wednesday, police Constable Rick Russell said the boys were plotting a "planned takeover" of Saint John High where one of the boys is a pupil. The other two are from Harbourview High.
He said the boys had been practising making bombs for some time, and were planning to attack the school's administration offices with explosives, where they intended to kill the principal and other officials with bombs and guns. He said the boys then planned to order a list of "hated" students into the offices, one by one, to be executed.
Const. Russell said police had found writing by the boys naming the people they planned to kill.
He said the 17-year-old had also written: "I hate my life ... I hate everyone."
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 18, 2005 05:29 PM ]
You are wrong. I consider myself a liberal, but my child were disciplined. I condone it in schools as well as home. This problem cuts across all political parties. I've found through experience that the children of upper middle and upper class parents are more likely to be spoiled, undisciplined and starved for attention than those of the virtually non-existent middle class and of the lower class. And, what party most represents the upper middle and upper class Americans? Why, could it be Republican? Mom's too busy with her social clubs and dad's too busy working or playing around with his secretary to even remember that they have a child at home. Seen it.
Don't blame this one on liberals. Bad parents come from both parties.
posted on March 20, 2005 06:52:11 AM new
Well said Cheryl,
Eric Harris' father was retired Air Force. The rightistas here were always telling us during the election that the military overwhelmingly votes Republican, remember? Given that, bear's assertion is, as usual, just silly.
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on March 20, 2005 06:58:55 AM new
And another thing: The Canadian boys in the case linked in the OP were Canadian Air Cadets from New Brunswick. Here's a quote from a New Brunswick Air Cadet Page:
849-2297 Hickey Road P.O. Box 2206 Saint John, NB E2L 3V1
CADET CORPS Provides a training program to youth aged 12-19, based on military subjects. The aim of the cadet movement is to develop the attributes of good citizenship and leadership; promote physical fitness; and create an interest in the Armed Forces. This program is fully funded by the Canadian government, at no cost to the participants.
Right, bear, I'm guessing these boys came from some really liberal do your own thing whatever it's cool families.
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
posted on March 21, 2005 05:10:11 PM newyea and we all know the democrats are good for that!!
Everybody's good for that classic. Judging from the sexual comments you are wont to make on this board, I'd say you already knew that...Would you like a repost of the incomplete list of Republican representatives, senators, governors, ministers and others who have gotten in trouble for everything from sexual harrassment to sex with a minor? Well, too bad. Here it is, with supporting web addresses. I didn't make them active links, you can figure out how to do that for yourself.
Republican Sex Scandals
Some links are broken for now, time to use google to rediscover the proof.
(1) Republican Mayor Philip Giordano - 37 year sentence for sexually abusing 8 and 10 year old girls.
http://www.nbc30.com/news/2268479/detail.htmlDtopstories&id=56414,00.html
(2) Republican Congressman, Donald "Buz" Lukens, convicted of having sex with a minor. http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/from_redirect/0,10987,1101890213-151183,00.html
(3) Republican fundraiser, Richard A. Delgaudio, convicted of child porn charges.
http://www.thewbalchannel.com/news/2153721/detail.html
(4) Republican activist, Mark A. Grethen, convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.
http://www.orlandoweekly.com/weird/index.asp?now=3400
(5) Republican activist, Randal David Ankeney, convicted of assaulting a 14-year-old girl.
http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news/1130885/detail.html
(6) Republican Congressman, Dan Crane, had sex with a minor.
http://archive.salon.com/col/cona/1998/10/05cona.html
(7) Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader, Beverly Russell, admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter. http://wlo.org/nw/nww5.html
(8) Republican anti-abortion activist, John Allen Burt, was charged with sexual misconduct involving a 15 year old girl.
http://www.brojed.org/wwwboard/messages/14076.html
(9) Conservative radio talk host indicted on charge of indecency with child
http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/news/111203_local_matthews.html
(10) Republican congressman, Robert Bauman, was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy. http://www.glinn.com/news/h122989a.htm
(11) Republican activist, Marty Glickman convicted on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with a juvenile and one count of the delivery of LSD. http://www.democraticunderground.com/top10/01/top10_2001_15.html
(12) Howard L. Brooks, a Republican staffer, charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.
http://www.sacbee.com/static/live/news/calreport/N2001-11-22-2300-0.html
(13) Republican Senate candidate, John Hathaway, was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter.
http://www..cascobayweekly.com/cbw/news/al01.31.02.stm
(14) Republican preacher, Stephen White, arrested after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy to perform oral sex on him. http://www.yaledailynews.com/article.asp?AID=23709
(15)Republican state Rep. Brent Parker arrested for soliciting sex from an undercover officer posing as a male prostitute. http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Mar/03012003/utah/34193.asp
(16)Douglas County Election Commissioner Pat McPherson arrested for fondling a 17-year-old girl. http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=36
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Dick Cheney: "I have not suggested there's a connection between Iraq and 9/11..."
FBI: Eight Killed in Minnesota Shooting Spree
Monday, March 21, 2005
PHOTOS
RED LAKE, Minn. — Six people died Monday in a shooting spree apparently carried out by a student at Red Lake High School (search), the FBI said. The same student was suspected in the killings of two people at a home before the school shootings.
Those dead at the school were four students, among them the suspected shooter, along with a teacher and a security guard, FBI spokesman Paul McCabe said at a news conference in Minneapolis.
Before the shootings, a man and a woman were fatally shot at a home in Red Lake, McCabe said.
The suspect was a male student, McCabe said. He would not comment on reports that the boy shot himself. He also declined to talk about a possible connection between the suspect and the couple killed at the home but the Red Lake fire director Roman Statley said they were the grandparents of the shooter.
Stateley told several media outlets that the grandfather was a police officer whose guns may have been used in the shootings.
Fourteen to 15 more students were injured, including two critically. All of the dead students ? two boys and two girls ? were in one room, McCabe said.
[ edited by Linda_K on Mar 21, 2005 05:31 PM ]
That's horrible news. We need to keep this out of the "party" discussion. This is a national problem that crosses all parties, socioeconomic status and ethnicities. What's to be done about it?
posted on March 21, 2005 05:35:05 PM new
Cheryl - I only wish I knew. It's obvious that these 'shooters' are angry children who maybe? never were taught how to vent their anger in less violent ways. I sure don't have any answers.
posted on March 21, 2005 09:17:38 PM new10 Dead in Minn. Teen Rampage, Police Say
24 minutes ago U.S. National - AP
By JOSHUA FREED, Associated Press Writer
BEMIDJI, Minn. - A high school student went on a shooting rampage on an Indian reservation Monday, killing his grandparents at their home and then seven people at his school, grinning and waving as he fired, authorities and witnesses said. The suspect apparently killed himself after exchanging gunfire with police.
It was the nation's worst school shooting since the Columbine massacre in 1999 that killed 13 people.
One student said her classmates pleaded with the gunman to stop shooting.
"You could hear a girl saying, 'No, Jeff, quit, quit. Leave me alone. What are you doing?" student Sondra Hegstrom told The Pioneer of Bemidji, using the name of the suspected shooter.
Before the shootings at Red Lake High School, the suspect's grandparents were shot in their home and died later. There was no immediate indication of the gunman's motive.
In addition to the shooter, the death toll at the school included five students, a teacher and a security guard, FBI (news - web sites) spokesman Paul McCabe said in Minneapolis.
Fourteen to 15 other students were injured, McCabe said. Some were being cared for in Bemidji, about 20 miles south of Red Lake. Authorities closed roads to the reservation in far northern Minnesota while they investigated the shootings.
Hegstrom described the shooter grinning and waving at a student his gun was pointed at, then swiveling to shoot someone else. "I looked him in the eye and ran in the room, and that's when I hid," she told The Pioneer.
McCabe declined to talk about a possible connection between the suspect and the couple killed at the home, but Red Lake Fire Director Roman Stately said they were the grandparents of the gunman. He identified the shooter's grandfather as Daryl Lussier, a longtime officer with the Red Lake Police Department, and said Lussier's guns may have been used in the shootings.
Stately said the shooter had two handguns and a shotgun.
"After he shot a security guard, he walked down the hallway shooting and went into a classroom where he shot a teacher and more students," Stately told Minneapolis television station KARE.
Students and a teacher, Diane Schwanz, said the gunman tried to break down a door to get into her classroom.
"I just got on the floor and called the cops," Schwanz told the Pioneer. "I was still just half-believing it."
Ashley Morrison, another student, had taken refuge in Schwanz's classroom. With the shooter banging on the door, she dialed her mother on her cell phone. Her mother, Wendy Morrison, said she could hear gunshots on the line.
"'Mom, he's trying to get in here and I'm scared,'" Ashley Morrison told her mother.
All of the dead students were found in one room. One of them was a boy believed to be the shooter, McCabe said. He would not comment on reports that the boy shot himself and said it was too early to speculate on a motive.
Martha Thunder's 15-year-old son, Cody, was being treated for a gunshot wound to the hip.
"He heard gunshots and the teacher said 'No, that's the janitor's doing something,' and the next thing he knew, the kid walked in there and pointed the gun right at him," Thunder said.
The school was evacuated after the shootings and locked down for the investigation, McCabe said.
"It will probably take us throughout the night to really put the whole picture together," he said.
Floyd Jourdain Jr., chairman of the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, called it "without a doubt the darkest hour" in the group's history. "There has been a considerable amount of lives lost, and we still don't know the total of that," Jourdain said.
It was the nation's worst school shooting since two students at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo., killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves on April 20, 1999.
The rampage in Red Lake was the second fatal school shooting in Minnesota in 18 months. Two students were killed at Rocori High School in Cold Spring in September 2003. Student John Jason McLaughlin, who was 15 at the time, awaits trial in the case.
Red Lake High School, on the Red Lake Indian Reservation, has about 300 students, according to its Web site.
The reservation is about 240 miles north of the Twin Cities. It is home to the Red Lake Chippewa Tribe, one of the poorest in the state. According to the 2000 census, 5,162 people lived on the reservation, and all but 91 were Indians.
posted on March 21, 2005 09:31:05 PM new
Libra - The second fatal shooting in an 18 month period in that same area.
Then the AP had this on their site this morning.
That's why I asked....what in the world is going on with our youth today? How can we work to stop this carnage?
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Other school shootings
Other Fatal Shootings at U.S. Schools
The Associated Press
Published: Mar 21, 2005
Some other fatal school shootings:
- Sept. 24, 2003: Two students - Aaron Rollins, 17, and Seth Bartell, 14
- were fatally shot at Rocori High School in Cold Spring, Minn. Fellow student John Jason McLaughlin, who was 15 at the time of the shooting, awaits trial in the case.
- March 5, 2001: Charles "Andy" Williams, 15, killed two fellow students and wounded 13 others at Santana High School in Santee, Calif., in San Diego County. Williams was sentenced to 50-years-to-life in prison.
- May 26, 2000: 13-year-old honor student Nathaniel Brazill killed his English teacher, Barry Grunow, on last day of classes in Lake Worth, Fla. after the teacher refused to let him talk with two girls in his classroom. He was convicted of second-degree murder and is serving a 28-year sentence
- Feb. 29, 2000: Six-year-old boy shot and killed 6-year-old classmate at Buell Elementary School in Mount Morris Township, Mich. Because of his age, the boy was not charged.
- Nov. 19, 1999: 13-year-old girl shot in the head in school at Deming, N.M., and died the next day. A 12-year-old boy later pleaded guilty and was sentenced to at least two years in juvenile prison.
- Apr. 20, 1999: Students Eric Harris, 18, and Dylan Klebold, 17, killed 12 students and a teacher and wounded 23 before killing themselves at Columbine High School in Littleton, Colo.
- May 21, 1998: Two teenagers were killed and more than 20 people hurt when a teenage boy opened fire at a high school in Springfield, Ore., after killing his parents. Kip Kinkel, 17, was sentenced to nearly 112 years in prison.
- May 19, 1998: Three days before his graduation, Jacob Davis, an 18-year-old honor student, opened fire at a high school in Fayetteville, Tenn., killing a classmate who was dating his ex-girlfriend. Davis was later sentenced to life in prison.
- April 24, 1998: Andrew Wurst, 15, opened fire at an eighth-grade dance in Edinboro, Pa., killing a science teacher. The boy pleaded guilty to third-degree murder and other charges and is serving 30 to 60 years in prison.
- March 24, 1998: Two boys, 11 and 13, fired on their Jonesboro, Ark., middle school from nearby woods, killing four girls and a teacher and wounding 10 others. Both boys were later convicted of murder and can be held until age 21.
- Dec. 1, 1997: Three students were killed and five wounded at Heath High School in West Paducah, Ky. Michael Carneal, 14-year-old, later pleaded guilty but mentally ill to murder and is serving life in prison.
- Oct. 1, 1997: Sixteen-year-old Luke Woodham of Pearl, Miss., fatally shot two students to death and wounded seven others after stabbing his mother to death. He was sentenced the following year to three life sentences plus 140 years.
- Feb. 19, 1997: A 16-year-old boy took a shotgun and a bag of shells to school in Bethel, Alaska, and killed the principal and a student and injured two others. Evan Ramsey is serving a 210-year sentence.
posted on March 22, 2005 12:56:51 PM new
They are missing another one in San Diego - there was another school shooting just a few months after Andy Williams.
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
If it's really "common" sense, why do so few people actually have it?
posted on March 24, 2005 11:48:11 AM new
A troubled youth shooter/killer....also taking Prozac. Haven't we been told that many youngsters taking these drugs have a higher tendency to be suicidal?
I just wonder if this might be a common denominator between these killings.
