RedStateRising
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posted on August 24, 2005 06:29:26 AM
Peepa posed the following question to me in the New Kid thread but rather than keep that thread going I thought it best to start a new thread:
How do you feel about are wide open southern borders that Bush is doing nothing about. I believe the open borders hurt the middle and working class American. Plus the open borders pose a threat to Americas security. Do you and I agree on the open borders issue?
The short answer is yes, I agree that open borders pose a threat to this country. But I do not think this problem exists because "Bush is doing nothing about it." I don't know, short of building a very long wall, how to stop illegal immigration into this counrty and I haven't seen any real good ideas from either political camp. In the short term I wouldn't be opposed to increasing border patrols but am not convinced that that is a long term solution.
The tangential issue is what to do about illegal aliens already here. I know quite a few people (conservatives and liberals alike) who hire illegal aliens as nannys, gardners, etc. These are the same people who complain about the border issue. The attitude seems to be "illegal aliens bad - unless it helps me, of course!" Again, I do not see this as a political issue but rather a "do as I say, not as I do" attitude that is pretty common in my experience.
So in my opinion, government can only do so much. Its the attitudes of the people that need to change.
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maggiemuggins
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posted on August 24, 2005 06:42:21 AM
You sure do talk Purdy, Red.....
For the benefit of those of us who had to look this one up....
Tangential:
1. Of, relating to, or moving along or in the direction of a tangent.
2. Merely touching or slightly connected.
3. Only superficially relevant; divergent: a tangential remark.
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on August 24, 2005 09:57:35 AM
We should be happy they are comming here to a better life and have chosen the US to do so.
We owe it to those here that we accept them once they have integrted into our society.
Ron
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RedStateRising
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posted on August 24, 2005 10:23:36 AM
We owe it to those here that we accept them once they have integrted into our society
Sure, I have no problem with that. Legally migrate to this country and I'll accept that person. Illegally enter and I owe them nothing.
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MAH645
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posted on August 24, 2005 11:06:45 AM
If a person isn't a citizen of the United States they should be made to leave. I agree Bush isn't doing enough to stop them.
**********************************
Two men sit behind bars,one sees mud the other sees stars.
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 12:00:31 PM
I agree we need to do more to keep the illegals out - and as quickly as possible.
Read an article this past week that stated 1 out of every 4 Mexicans want to move here. That's a HUGE amount of trouble and it's what we'll have to deal with in the future - that realization.
I have always wished we'd better secure our borders....both northern and southern - under ALL Presidents. It's not an easy job being that it's approx. six thousand miles to protect.
I would support putting our national guard on our borders. I would support building a huge wall like Israel has done - even knowing it would be costly. And if push came to shove, I'd support shooting trespassers/illegals who continued to attempt to come across illegally after taking the other measures first.
Have any of you read about the percentages of those who cross illegally and are criminals? And we pay to support them in our over-flowing jails. That's why we now have two states that have called it an 'emergency' and Vermont is soon to do so too. The governor of CA is also calling for help with their border problems. THEY can't handled the load alone.
But in regards to this President doing 'nothing'....that's just not true. He has put 1,000 more border patrols on our southern border. There now are air patrols that can cover more ground than our border patrol ever could.
And this has always been a huge problem....not just during this administration. Did our most recent dem presidents do anything about it? NO!! Neither carter nor clinton did a thing.
But I am in agreement we need to take serious measures and get a grip on this more serious problem, after 9-11.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Piinthesky
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posted on August 24, 2005 12:14:31 PM
And if push came to shove, I'd support shooting trespassers/illegals who continued to attempt to come across illegally after taking the other measures first.
I agree and afterall it's like we are at war, or at the very least in a siege with these people anyways, so why not shoot them or take some such other drastic measures. It's like we are being invaded by peoples from south of the border.
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 12:20:47 PM
piinthesky - Not only are we being invaded....but the Mexican government is instructing their citizens on how and were it's safer to cross into our country. They are providing ambulances to their people and transporting them to our country for the medical care they need. We ALREADY have a big enough problem taking care of our uninsured citizens, we don't need to be giving free care to all of Mexico too.
I know those who favor a National health care program here...are always speaking to the numbers of the uninsured in our country. What they don't mention is that a HUGE percentage of those are illegals.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Piinthesky
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posted on August 24, 2005 12:34:46 PM
Maybe we should consider imprisoning them. It just might cost less to do that in the long term rather than just deporting them each time they're caught. Then the word would spread that coming to the US illegally means going to prison and maybe they will stop coming. Besides it would mean more jobs for the US as prison staff.
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 12:48:21 PM
Agreed that could be another option. As long as we fully realize how much that too would cost to house them. Prisons aren't cheap to build and per cost of maintaining them on a yearly basis would run into the billions/millions of dollars too.
There's no easy way to deal with this....that's for sure. But the more illegals that get in....set up housekeeping...get drivers licenses....start voting....they're going to be voting for their own interests.....which in many cases is more government support for them.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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maggiemuggins
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posted on August 24, 2005 01:14:43 PM
Linda says:I would support putting our national guard on our borders. I would support building a huge wall like Israel has done - even knowing it would be costly. And if push came to shove, I'd support shooting trespassers/illegals who continued to attempt to come across illegally after taking the other measures first.
Whoa..hey I'm all for not allowing illegals entry into the US..but kill them for attempting to better their life by sneaking across the border! Good God, woman..you are starting to sound like Hitler..remember we are all practically still in immigrant status in this young country of ours...
Sure it's wrong for them to come here illegally, but desperation sometimes leads to desperate measures..
Killing seems to be your answer for everything these days, Linda..
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 01:17:05 PM
Well...why don't you offer YOUR own suggestions maggie, rather than faulting mine...while not addressing the issue of how this problem could be dealt with.
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"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
[ edited by Linda_K on Aug 24, 2005 01:19 PM ]
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maggiemuggins
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posted on August 24, 2005 01:20:49 PM
They need to continue to do what they have been doing for years only more so..
Kill people who are trying to escape a life of desperation to come to the Garden of Eden, is not the answer.. and you should be ashamed of yourself for even suggesting it..
Edited to add... sheesh, the more I hear the loving words you God Fearing Good Christians say..like "build a wall and kill the poor bastards that climb over".. the happier I am distancing myself from religion!!
[ edited by maggiemuggins on Aug 24, 2005 01:26 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 01:33:36 PM
Don't blame all Christians because of what I say.
I am the only one responsible for my own statements - no one else. I have the capability to understand many don't agree with me. And I also understand I have the 'right' to say how I feel....whether it meets with your approval or not, ms. maggie.
How sad that you would choose to base your opinions/views on the statements of only one person.....and appear to paint all those in a whole religion the same way. Wake up maggie....they're not at all the same. Each are individuals just as are the secular ones.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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fenix03
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posted on August 24, 2005 01:46:02 PM
::How sad that you would choose to base your opinions/views on the statements of only one person.....and appear to paint all those in a whole religion the same way.::
How if that different from what you do with Democrats or Liberals. Aren't you the one that consistantly uses "you liberls, you dems and when responding to one of Dbls "please god someone pay attention to me and tell me how wonderful I am" posts, without fail will respond with a "that's what they/libs/dems do statement?
Why is it that you realize that you are not representative of every other person in your party or religion but cannot see the same thing to be true of those of different religions and parties?
~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~ • ~~~
An intelligent deaf-mute is better than an ignorant person who can speak.
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kiara
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posted on August 24, 2005 01:56:03 PM
It's not an easy problem to solve but I think shooting illegals just because they have a desire to better their life is a very extreme measure.
Perhaps illegal immigrants may not be taxing the health system as much as previously thought? There is no way of knowing for sure.
"The report, which was released Monday and appears in the current issue of the American Journal of Public Health, concludes that immigrants, many of whom pay Medicare payroll and other taxes, receive less than half as much health care as native-born families. Immigrant children, in particular, receive 74 percent less health care than U.S.-born children. Latino immigrants had the lowest health expenditures.
The report, however, leaves unanswered questions about the impact illegal immigrants have on health care costs. Proponents of strict immigration control often argue that illegal immigrants are a drain on health care, but there is little definitive data to support that argument."
http://www.statesman.com/news/content/metro/stories/07/26immhealth.html
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WashingtoneBayer
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posted on August 24, 2005 02:22:11 PM
Wouldn't any illegal immigrant usage be too much for health care? They haven't earned it or deserve it.
One is one too many.
Until such time as we heavily punish the employers, why should we punish those who want to work?
Ron
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 02:24:42 PM
LOL fenix - It is a personal statement from me to maggie.
So, now, you who appears to want another fight? finds it objectional that I ask her not to use me as a good example of Christians? LOL LOL
Go fight with someone else....I had enough with you yesterday.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 02:29:01 PM
Perhaps illegal immigrants may not be taxing the health system as much as previously thought? There is no way of knowing for sure.
What nonsense...of course there are ways to know....it's called studies that have been done that do report the cost, in all areas, of illegal immigration.
geeze....so un-informed you always are.
The Governors of these states are QUITE aware of what it's costing their states.....and they've decided it calls for EMERGENCY measures to be taken.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 02:32:03 PM
Ron - I totally agree in that area too. Employers MUST be held more accountable...and the fines for breaking the laws must cost them more. When they feel it in their pocket-books...change will come about.
I think the biggest problem with that has been too many forged documents. It's too easy for them to give the employers false documents that are/look real.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 02:34:39 PM
And it's not only normal health care they receive for free...it's SS and Medicare benefits too.
When again, we can hardly take care of our own citizens.
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NearTheSea
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posted on August 24, 2005 02:54:34 PM
Isn't there a couple states on the Mexican border that called for a state of emergency? Not sure which ones (TX and NM??)
I was told this, and looked it up. Its not in any 'top stories' or headlines, and that surprises me
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dblfugger9
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posted on August 24, 2005 02:56:31 PM
another one of dbl's please god someone pay attention to me and tell me how wonderful I am"
LOL!!!
Youre ridiculous fenix, you know that? I have more attention than I can deal with on any given day! You should only know! lol!!! What axe you have to grind with me here? Because I said you have a robin-hood complex? People pull my name into the threads for fun, or debate, or whatever, and they get it. On topics - I add my opinons to the threads just like anybody else here. I'm sorry if I am more colorful and entertaining than you, and take away attention of whatever particular crusade you happen to be on at the moment. People post and go where they want to here. Sounds to me like your nothing but fn jealous. And I cant help ya with that, kid.
.
[ edited by dblfugger9 on Aug 24, 2005 02:57 PM ]
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 03:02:28 PM
NearTheSea - The two that have declared emergencies are NM and AZ. But Vermont and CA are now talking about doing the same thing....so they get extra funding to keep their borders closed more.
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NearTheSea
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posted on August 24, 2005 03:11:33 PM
Thanks Linda.
Isn't it strange these aren't bigger stories in the news??? I had to look it up through Google when my brother told me. A state of emergency is a big deal.
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kiara
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posted on August 24, 2005 03:19:51 PM
geeze....so un-informed you always are.
Lindak, I did say 'perhaps' and I did put a question mark. I may be uninformed on some issues but not 'always' as you tend to think. But I do realize your basic need to hurl an insult because you can't tolerate my views and like I said the other day, I understand.
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mingotree
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posted on August 24, 2005 03:30:56 PM
Open up those borders !
Walmart needs illegal workers!
It's just American capitalism at work!
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mingotree
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posted on August 24, 2005 03:35:43 PM
"""Linda_K
posted on August 24, 2005 02:34:39 PM
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And it's not only normal health care they receive for free...it's SS and Medicare benefits too.
When again, we can hardly take care of our own citizens. """
YOU SAID IT!Sad state of affairs when the "greatest country in the world" "" can hardly take care of our own citizens"".
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Linda_K
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posted on August 24, 2005 03:45:47 PM
You're welcome, NearTheSea. It was more in the news [at least on Fox news] one to two weeks ago. Richardson (D-NM) whom gets a lot of respect from me....is really pushing for four counties in his state to get this funding. Should have heard his interview on FN....about what they're dealing with because of the illegals. It was terrible.
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kiara....I'll restate what I said....MOST of the time when speaking about what goes on in American you don't know what you're talking about.
You're free to say whatever you want but remember I did say I would correct any false statements you make. And I just did.
Maybe you'd like to share with us just how much illegals cost you in your country. Since you don't live here you aren't paying for the tremendous cost of these illegals like we are, here in the US.
"Whenever the nation is under attack, from within or without, liberals side with the enemy. This is their essence." --Ann Coulter
And why the American Voters chose to RE-elect President Bush to four more years. YES!!!
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kiara
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posted on August 24, 2005 03:59:18 PM
lindak, what false statement did I make? The study said there was not enough definitive data to know the amount illegals are draining from the health system. And I don't think there is any sure way of telling how much illegals are costing the health system.
But since you seem to know the figures, please post them here so I can become more informed. I'm always willing to learn.
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