posted on November 20, 2000 07:03:16 AM new
Remember those thirties movies where the company boss sends out the goons to bust up the union meetings? That's what's happening,here. No kidding. It sounds crude, but it's real. As a McCain advisor pointed out a few days ago, the dark side of Bush seen in South Carolina is on the rise. His South Carolina goon squad is actually on the ground at Palm Beach, as I reported yesterday. According to a Reuters story yesterday, which is no longer available, a youngish man with black hair who was never seen at Palm Beach before was placed at a counting station as a Republican observer. Within minutes, he was standing up, pointing, and loudly shouting that the Democrat counter was picking up two ballots at a time. The counter said, "I did not." Security officers escorted the Republican observer to another station and the counting went on. But the scene had been made, interrupting all counting and allowing Republicans outside in front of the cameras to report what they considered another instance of biased counting procedures. Another story had Republicans claiming Democrats were eating chads. In short, the goons are back and Bush has got 'em.
posted on November 20, 2000 07:22:24 AM new
shameful, shameful
St. Gore continues to win the hearts and minds of American (even if the polls show they disappove of his tactics more, they are rumored to have used a 'butterfly poll').
posted on November 20, 2000 07:50:14 AM new
Thank you for that, krs. It seems to be forgotten that Baker promised a "scorched earth" strategy last week, and he certainly has delivered. These "eating chads" and "poking fingernail" stories are being debunked and pretty much ignored by the reputable news media. Even that rabid republican Talking Head on "Hardball"--the one that spews spittle when he talks and sounds like Sylvester--pooh-poohed one of the goons who appeared on his show with his wild tales of counting fraud and fracas. Funny how even the comments by the NON-Democratic and observers and counters(including Republicans) are appearing in interviews trying to debunk these "stories" put out by the Bush camp over the weekend, obviously in hopes that one (or some) of the Florida Supreme Court justices will have tuned into the weekend news. Scorched Earth indeed!
posted on November 20, 2000 09:17:22 AM new
Very little surprises me anymore.
When the Republican spokespeople, Karen ??? and the Governor of Montana, made their statements on Saturday, my reaction was that their accusations were mean-spirited and inciteful.
The longer this mess goes on and the more negative it gets, the cynical side of me thinks the backlash will be even more negativity to politics, in the form of even more voter apathy in future elections.
posted on November 20, 2000 10:43:30 AM new
There's no doubt that Democrats and Republicans both engage in tricks. While Richard Daley was manufacturing votes for JFK in Chicago in 1960's presidential election, Republicans were making just as many for Nixon in southern Illinois. And let's not forget Watergate.
Realize, before you take everything that Gore's point man Bill Daley takes as face value that he's probably hoping for a cabinet position in a Gore presidency.
Before you take everything that the newest Bush point man, that Gary Collins look alike Gov. Raciocot says, that he's already said he hopes for a position in a Bush administration.
And whatever happened to Bush's previous point man, James Baker? Regardless of his white-haired bearing of elder statesmanship, Southern code of honor, and fearful warnings of "the potential for mischief," possible in hand recounts, he's the same James Baker who prepared Ronald Reagan for the 1980 debates with a briefing book that had somehow walked its way over from the Jimmy Carter's campaign group.
But the best thing about all these characters is that they each vouch for the impeccable integrity of the others in their side's group.
None of them are doing anything new. The only difference is that we're all seeing more of it than we usually see.
posted on November 20, 2000 04:05:42 PM new
krs...if you read the full AP story, http://www.newsday.com/ap/text/national/ap89.htm you will note the woman is 70 years old and had already planned on stepping down as soon as the election was over anyway.
Cheer up...they may replace her with a Democrat.
******************
That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
posted on November 20, 2000 04:29:04 PM new
What's being 70 got to do with it? Sounds like an age discrimatory statement, njrazd, and I think that you'd better apologize, at least to Antiquary and Toke. Maybe to Rawbunzel too.
posted on November 20, 2000 04:32:21 PM new
krs...since very few people in my family have even made it to that age, I would have to think she may have legitimate health concerns. Maybe a note from her doctor would be in order?
Heck...I'm a little over half her age and I wouldn't want to work 15 hour days.
******************
That's Flunky Gerbiltush to you!
posted on November 20, 2000 04:48:11 PM new
If very few people in YOUR family have made it that far, YOU may have a real concern, but that's got nothing to do with her. She's as a spring chicken (there's that word again) and has probably been offered a new position as the Ambassador to wherever Ms. Harris doesn't chose.
posted on November 20, 2000 06:34:14 PM new
Oh the claims made...
I received a fundraising phone call representing the Republican National Comittee this evening. The caller told me that they need funds to put G. W. Bush in the White house because Bill Clinton has sent 500 lawyers employed by the federal government to Florida to circulate petitions in support of Al Gore.
I don't see how they can keep a straight face when claiming to stand for honesty and integrity.
posted on November 20, 2000 07:12:05 PM new
KRS,As much as I abhor discrimination in any form it is not necessary for me to recieve a personal apology about the age discrimination thingy.
Cheez-How old do you think I am?
Oh look>>>>>>>I can still jump up and down even at my advanced age!!
posted on November 21, 2000 12:06:19 AM new
There is an art to dirty tricks, sometimes you get caught and public opinion is really outraged.
"Last week, a Tallahassee attorney hired by the Democratic Party sent a five-page letter to other attorneys across the state with suggestions on challenging the validity of the overseas ballots." (Associated Press)
The democrats are in the embarrassing position of being caught making an effort to hold Bush gains at the expense of the military votes.
posted on November 21, 2000 05:29:16 AM new
Nonsense.
GW Bush is a crybaby, and he and his 'team' are acting irresponsibly in all of this with their trumped up and false allegations of fraud, by playing the absentee military card with distortion of facts, and by treating Al Gore as some kind of illegitimate thief who's trying to steal Bush's landslide victory.
Bush needs to be reminded that he did not win the popular vote and that the Gore requests for verification of the balloting in Florida are both legal and legitimate when, at the beginning of it, only 300 votes were the spread between the two.
If anything, Bush should be gratified that the recounting has in effect actually increased his lead and quit all his whining. He, and he alone, is making this country into a worldwide laughingstock.
posted on November 21, 2000 05:50:27 AM new
Anyone watching the Florida Supreme Court do their thing catch the several improper and political based questions asked by some of the judges?
The question that stood out the most, and brought me out of my chair, was when the female judge asked the Bush side why they were challenging manual counts when the Texas statute allows it? The Bush attorney was immediately aware of the impropriety of the question and blew it aside.
Tell me judges are not vulnerable to conscious and unconscious bias.
The Bush team is not comprised of goons, the specialized team was formed to (combat) goons.
Liberalism is at death's door and the Democrats are turning the knob.
posted on November 21, 2000 06:05:11 AM new"GW Bush is a crybaby, and he and his 'team' are acting irresponsibly in all of this with their trumped up and false allegations of fraud, by playing the absentee military card with distortion of facts."
The only place I've seen mention of the letter with suggestions on how to challenge the validity of overseas ballots was in an Associated Press article. Are you calling that report false? You've got to come up with a lot of spin to distance yourself from a press release like that. I guess that doesn't qualify as 'goon' tactics on the part of the democratic lawyer that issued that letter. Even if he is a 'goon' he's a native of Florida so you can boast that Gore is only using native goons.
Especially note the comment from Belgium, Uaru, which goes " In most of the civilized countries of the world Jeb Bush would be imprisoned for this voter fraud, in the uncivilized countries he would be shot".
posted on November 21, 2000 06:42:57 AM new
Dear George makes a big fuss over the supposed abuses of military votes as part of his PR smear, but doesn't even bring the matter up in court?
posted on November 21, 2000 06:48:18 AM new
First, this (is) America, screw the opinion of foreigners/foreign countries regarding our (USA) election process.
Second, state the facts, evidence, or "probable cause" that will substantiate any accusation that the Governor of Florida has engaged in criminal activity in the Florida election process.
posted on November 21, 2000 06:56:00 AM new
Ignoring the tripe,
Uaru
It seems that the instructional memo you mention but do not provide merely serves as a guide to the requirements of Florida law concerning absentee ballots. Additionally, there appear to be a number of ballots which were not sent by the state of Florida, but were provided through the U.S. embassy overseas. Certainly the confusion over them extends through the process, regardless any partisan viewpoint.
posted on November 21, 2000 06:58:55 AM new
Uaru,
Please don't tell me that you regard any news report as pure fact not influenced by the editorial stance of the reporting source.
EVERY news source has a bias, that's why we read more than just the ones we happen to agree with, right?
posted on November 21, 2000 07:01:10 AM new
Because the issue regarding the military absentee ballots is not (yet) the primary argument. The disqualification of the military absentee ballots is a different issue
Unlike the Democrats that tried to expand beyond the "brief" they had filed with the Florida Supreme Court, but was immediately brought under control, the Bush team is obviously much more astute and are not grasping at the wind.
Had the Bush team tried to expand their argument to matters not yet important to the Court, they would be wasting time and would lose credibility.
If I recall correctly, the primary issue at this time is the manual recount and the certification deadline, including the Constitutionality and intent of the Florida election statutes.
posted on November 21, 2000 07:08:47 AM newhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A46473-2000Nov20.html
krs, do you consider this part of that article as proof of no underhanded tactics on the part of the democratic party???
"Democratic lawyers around the state were armed with a five-page memo prepared by a lawyer for the state party on what to look for in challenging military ballots, including a preprinted p[rotest form that contained a checkoff list of reasons for rejections. Among them, "lack of voter signature, lack of affirmative request for absentee ballot, request for absentee ballot not fully filled out," as well as a late postmark or no postmark."
You feel they were just issuing that memo to 'serve the public'. Come on... the tactic seemed clear to me.
Those ARE the requirements of Florida law. I would view the memo as if it were a language or customs guide which would be carried by a tourist so that they might better be able, when in Rome, to do as the Romans do.
It was prepared for lawyers who came from other states, and except for it having been made much of by the republican 'camp' is pretty innocuous.
I just found this as part of a lengthy piece by a reporter covering Governor Bush:
"“JEB TOLD ME I WON, and Dad told me I won,” Bush whined to press representatives covering his campaign. “That means I won, doggone it, and I’m gonna be really, really ticked off if anyone tells me I didn’t.”
When asked what form Gov. Bush’s angry response might take, sources close to the Bush camp indicated that his tantrum would most likely include hollering, holding his breath until his face turned blue, and falling down on the ground,kicking and screaming like a 2-year-old at the mall.
“I swear, if they keep counting those votes, they’re gonna be really, really sorry,” Bush shouted, stamping his foot.
The Texas governor, whose face has been increasingly covered with mysterious Band-Aids in recent days, said that if he is not sworn in as president on Jan. 20, he intends to retaliate by sneaking up behind Vice President Gore and biting his ankles. Constitutional scholars were divided as to whether or not temper tantrums, whining and ankle-biting were the sort of remedies the framers of the Constitution envisioned for close elections like the one currently being contested. But for his part, Gov. Bush told reporters that he believed “a major league hissy fit” was appropriate.
“Go ahead and call me a crybaby,” he said. “I am rubber, you are glue—what you say bounces off me and sticks to you.”
Bush aides quickly ushered the Texas governor away from reporters, saying only that it was time for his nap.
