posted on December 4, 2000 11:17:59 AM new
Bush's minions have engaged in incendiary rhetoric, accusing the Gore camp of trying to "steal" the election and calling election officials
"thugs." They have denounced and tried to discredit the courts when they didn't rule the GOP's way. And in one astonishing episode, a
Republican mob verbally attacked and intimated a group of low-level functionaries trying to hand recount ballots in Miami-Dade. By the
way, that scene of well-heeled young conservatives engaged in a near-riot bore the imprimatur of House Majority Whip Tom DeLay, among
the scary GOP contingent that Bush tried to keep hidden during the campaign. DeLay and other Republican congressional leaders --
realizing that they couldn't expect many legitimate voters in heavily Democratic Miami-Dade to rally to their cause -- offered their aides
airfare, hotels and meals if they would fly down to Florida to cause trouble. Indeed, they were thrilled for the opportunity to use their
peculiar talents. One GOP operative told The Wall Street Journal: "Once word leaked out, everybody wanted in." Perhaps Bush's resort to
such tactics shouldn't come as a surprise -- his mantra about being a "uniter, not a divider" notwithstanding. When he was under pressure
from U.S. Sen. John McCain of Arizona during the Republican primaries, Bush allowed his minions to resort to the worst kinds of dirty
tricks. Bush surrogates went so far as to suggest McCain sold out to the Communists in Vietnam and to smear his 9-year-old adopted Bangladeshi daughter.
"Bush ought to know better. He should have learned from the late Lee Atwater, a South Carolina native who used scorched-earth tactics to win the presidency for the governor's father,
George H.W. Bush. In a death-bed confessional written for Life magazine, Atwater, who died of cancer in 1991, spoke with deep regret of the bitter war he waged against Michael
Dukakis, the Democratic nominee. "In 1988, fighting Dukakis, I said that I 'would strip the bark off the little bastard' and 'make Willie Horton his running mate.' I am sorry for both
statements: the first for its naked cruelty, the second because it makes me sound racist, which I am not. "Mostly I am sorry for the way I thought of other people. Like a good general, I
had treated everyone who wasn't with me as against me." That's the least of it. The Bush camp is treating the opposition as illegitimate, un-American, thieves. And, if Bush assumes the
White House, Gore's supporters -- about half of America -- won't easily forget it. If he wins (and the clock seems to favor Bush at the moment), he's in for a rocky road. They say the
governor doesn't read much, but he ought to go back and take a look at Atwater's dying words. It is too late for Bush to reclaim the mantle of "uniter, not a divider;" he has long since
given the lie to that. But it may not be too late for him to reclaim his soul."
posted on December 4, 2000 03:17:22 PM new
Really, Ken, if you're going to insist on lifting the intellectual property of others you might at least post the good stuff:
posted on December 4, 2000 03:31:08 PM new
I haven't read the book to which KRS refers, but I suspect we can all easily verify whether or not the statements made are actually contained in that book.
No matter what, at least part of the statement is true. Half the country isn't going to forget or forgive, and this would have been the case no matter which party won.
I've often seen the statement on these boards that the Office of the Presidency should be respected, no matter who holds that office.
I wish somebody would tell the people who actually hold that office, the two current candidates have done nothing but bring shame to our country and the Presidency.
Edited for spellin' and I probly didn't find all of 'em.
posted on December 4, 2000 03:36:45 PM new
MORE absurdities.................yawn...........get a life or call the supreme court to see if they can find one for you krs. Maybe the Hon Ginsberg will give it a shot?
posted on December 4, 2000 03:58:26 PM new
Thanks Jada,
It's a legitimate site the owner of which gathers information from a wide variety of sources and presents them without espousing any judgement of their worth. He does the same thing in many areas of the political sphere and about all candidates.
That the (mostly) repubblican posters get riled over these outtakes may point up the limitations of their ability to tolerate opposing views speaks of them, not him, in my view.
posted on December 4, 2000 04:24:12 PM newjada - All kenny's done is (as per usual) cut and paste - and, as usual, without naming his source. Hypothetically, of course, why would a person do that? Perhaps his quotation-marks key is stuck. Perhaps he is uneducated and doesn't know even the grammar-school basics of attribution. Perhaps such a person actually wants to take credit for these writings - which raises the question of what exactly would such a person's capacity be for original thought.
posted on December 4, 2000 05:00:01 PM new
MY! Aren't we having a headache?
I've repeatedly directed posters to the post in which I attributed all of these statements to the source. Amazing that you could have missed them. Even so, unless your focus is completely upon me, quilt, other helpful posters have reposted the link just today.
posted on December 4, 2000 09:06:07 PM newkrs's comments are very simular to Germany's "Kristallnacht" on November 9, 1938, wherein fascist hoodlums smashed the store-fronts of Jewish businesspeople. That was a real turning-point for in world history as it officially sanctioned the attitudes espoused by the nazi party. After seeing Democracy being denied by force by Republicans in Florida in order to force the election to their candidate; i.e. George Bush, Jr., this is a real turning point for Americans as well.
posted on December 5, 2000 05:22:08 AM newDemocracy being denied by force by Republicans in Florida
Are you referring to the "Republican mob" (in Lieberman's words) who "intimidated" the Miami-Dade canvassing board into ending its re-recount?
Maybe you can tell me why, if Lieberman's allegations are true, Mr. Boies (hardly a dim bulb) didn't call ANY of those board members to so testify at trial? I would think that would be pretty convincing evidence of the sort of misconduct that would legally justify a recount in that county.
Odd that none of those board members has even made a statement to the press about being "intimidated". Sure would be quite a story...
posted on December 5, 2000 05:31:44 AM new
Careful HCQ, those that pursue what I am coming to think of as the "eel of truth" (i.e. KRS) might find the slippery character labeling them as "tedious". An appelation he granted me in another thread when logic and attributed facts left him with no basis to continue valid debate. It is a name I bear proudly.
posted on December 5, 2000 05:49:10 AM new
Hi Hartcottagequilts;
KRS did name the source to which I was referring. He was speaking of Lee Atwater's comments that were contained in an article in Life Magazine (not a book as I mistakenly said).
My point was that, in my opinion, he was right in his statement that Gore supporters "won't easily forget". I don't think this nation as a whole will rally behind either of these candidates, and that we will have a division in this country for the next four years with almost half the nation feeling as if they have been betrayed and ailenated, no matter which party won.
Neither candidate can take pride in their actions since the election was held and neither has the strength of character to heal this rift.
[ edited by jada on Dec 5, 2000 05:50 AM ]
posted on December 5, 2000 06:02:19 AM newjada, I understand how you could be confused. NONE of the statements - including the reference to the Life article -in krs's first post are his own. Without attribution, he directly cut-and-pasted part of an editorial by Atlanta Journal-Constitution columnist Cynthia Tucker (a female, no less).
So as to give credit where credit's actually due, uaru later provided the link.
posted on December 5, 2000 06:57:45 AM new
Can you, quilt, point out where I have EVER claimed that ANY of those posted words were mine?
You are riding on your high horse, but backwards.
Throughout all of this, I have relied on one posting which includes the phrase 'you may refer to this post in future questioning of source' (or words to that effect) made by me in response to Joice on Nov. 11.
You may LIKE and NEED repetitive reminder of that source, but your likes and needs are the furthest thing from my cares or thoughts. I will assume that everyone here is capable and has sufficient skills to find that post for themselves. If YOU are incapable it is none of my concern.
posted on December 5, 2000 08:17:55 AM new
Tsk, tsk, Krs' cloak has become transparent. I have always wondered if anyone else realized that he has always plagiarized his intellect.
He has done it for so long, he has developed a method that allows him to retreat with credibility if the source of his post is questioned or uncovered. If not, the uninformed believe he (is) the sole author of what he posts.
You can always detect the difference when he has temporarily run out of prepared and/or stored material.
posted on December 5, 2000 08:45:57 AM new
Thank you Pat...
HCQ, you said about krs...Perhaps he is uneducated and doesn't know even the grammar-school basics of attribution. ...exactly what would such a person's capacity be for original thought?"
It does sound like you're attacking the messenger not his message there...
and you didn't even use the requisite number of smilies to cushion the snide remarks to make it into a "joke" or an acceptable comment.
or did the CG's change overnight and personal attacks are ok now?
Borillar got the point of the political discussion and said it very well:
"[i]After seeing Democracy being denied by force by Republicans in Florida in order to force the election to their candidate; i.e. George Bush, Jr., this is a real turning point for Americans as well."
Some of us Democrats think it's George W. Bush who's trying to steal the election, not Gore. Or maybe that's not as important to discuss.
oh, did I remember to use my quotation marks correctly? oh and BTW I can't spell too good either. Dont' forget that part in your critique.
but edjumacation, yep I got that out the wazoo... LOL!
posted on December 5, 2000 08:56:28 AM newThroughout all of this, I have relied on one posting which includes the phrase 'you may refer to this post in future questioning of source' (or words to that effect) made by me in response to Joice on Nov. 11.
You mean her admonishment to either restrict your quotations to "snipets" or provide a link? (Some "snipet", BTW. Over 400 words.)
Seriously, kenny, I'm truly sorry. I didn't realize that your posts are so memorable that readers would be able to recall them more than three weeks after you make 'em.
[ edited by HartCottageQuilts on Dec 5, 2000 08:57 AM ]
posted on December 5, 2000 08:59:35 AM new"Knowledge is very like money; if you do not let slip how little you have, people will treat you as though you have a lot."
posted on December 5, 2000 09:04:41 AM new
Oh, my. Another day, another dollar.
Enchanted,
I don't know your motivation here, of course, but please don't place yourself at risk on my account. I've been observing the reactions of certain posters to the snippets which I bring here; in fact I've often brought them for that sole purpose. It seems to me that our republican members either cannot answer with any veracity the information about their candidate and so, as you say, attack the messenger. Or, and I think in the immediate case more likely, they simply cannot read those snippets without seeing a red flag at the beginning which colorizes their perceptions. That flag may be a result of blind devotion to the republican cause or it may be a result of their personal antagonisms toward me. Either way, it seems that you can never get through to a fencepost, and discourse with a box of rocks is never rewarding. So please, enchanted, don't waste your huge talents with them.
posted on December 5, 2000 09:12:45 AM new
well hello Ken
(blushing at the unwarranted compliments)
'tis a lovely morning!
perhaps we could discuss the election while others are riding their high horses somewhere in the distance?
or you might wish to partake with me in the discussion recently started in another thread mentioning a boycott against Amazon.com, one of my favorite sites.
posted on December 5, 2000 09:19:25 AM new
Ah, there you are enchanted,
No, I would not care to join you in that bit of paranoic rebellion, and perhaps the only place to have any sort of conversation about the election would be via email or telephone.
As you can see, the chief antagonist here has not made a single post to the topic of the thread and apparently prefers that this thread be used for the display pettiness.
posted on December 5, 2000 09:27:26 AM new
you 'guys'(non-sexist) just don't get it!! many of you have seen my posts about religious and political discussions on the ebay outlook board and may have felt that i am into some kind of censorship. i am not. there is a right time and/or place for everything. what does any of this have to do with auctions? recent posts by others have included calling one religion obnoxious, another calling Jews devils,etc. ANY discussion of religion or politics will eventually turn nasty as is once again the case here. it amazes me that the moderators don't intervene sooner and lock many more threads. keep in mind that with the large number of AW posters that there are going to be some bigots, rascists, anti-semites etc. who are not going to be able to resist the temptation to "contribute" to these chats and offend many people. you guys are either masochists or otherwise enjoy getting all riled up everyday with all this stuff. happy holidays to all-except the bigots.
posted on December 5, 2000 10:00:43 AM new
And krs quoting another internet source which he chooses to share with the Round table is wrong because?
Can one of you answer what's wrong with that.
According to CNN as of five minutes ago his post reference the Seminole County case is dead on the money If the Judge rules in favor of the voters in that one the 12 Stepper will be Two Stepping back to the ranch. What's funny about that case is the Bush Campaign has sent its top legal guns into a suit that has not been joined by the Gore Campaign.
. Here is the source of his cough, cough news.
