Please provide clear, complete, and accurate answers to all 5 of the following questions. If you are unwilling/unable to do this, feel free to forward all 5 of these questions to any PayPal rep who can.
1) Why did PayPal rep 'Shannon' approve my claim, knowing full well that I was already outside the window?
2) Why did PayPal need 2+ months of 'investigative' time, if, as you say, it was a cut and dried issue of filing too late?
3) Why did PayPal lie about the reason for closing the claim?
4) Why have all of my further questions/requests/complains been met with indifference, roadblocks, or desperate clinging to the 'revelation' that I filed outside the window (but with the express consent of PayPal rep 'Shannon')?
5) Why is PayPal 100% unwilling to do anything to smooth over this customer service fiasco?
Once these questions are answered to my satisfaction, I'll leave this board forever. Until that time, I have no choice but to assume that ppd is avoiding this matter because he values my contributions to the threads on this board, and does not want me to go away. So, since I am a compassionate fellow, I'll be happy to do as ppd wishes.
I apologize to any of my fellow posters who may eventually tire of my seemingly repetitive posts on this subject, but remember, I am only following ppd's wishes when I do. Please bear with me.
As 'The Clash' sang many years ago..."Should I stay or should I go now?" ppd?
posted on June 13, 2001 08:39:41 AM
You'd best pull up a chair and make yourself comfortable- you're in this for the long haul. If past performance is any indication, the response you receive will go in one of two directions:
1) Copy-and-paste comments from the TOU.
2) A reply stating that the questions have already been answered, and reposts of previous replies, which don't really address the issues at hand.
PayPal theory: Even if you haven't in actuality done so, if you say that you have answered a user's question often enough, it becomes reality.
posted on June 13, 2001 08:54:18 AM
mrpotatoheadd:
That's ok by me. It's actually quite flattering that ppd values my contributions so much that he will go to such lengths to keep me around.
[ edited by purplehaze1967 on Jun 13, 2001 09:01 AM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 09:13:07 AM
I doubt that he has much of a choice in the matter. I'm sure there is a manager somewhere at PayPal who has directed him as to what he is and is not allowed to say.
posted on June 13, 2001 09:17:46 AM
That is why I indicated that I'd appreciate it if he would pass these questions along to someone who is allowed to answer them...
[ edited by purplehaze1967 on Jun 13, 2001 09:19 AM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 09:31:50 AM
I doubt it will work. I'll just have to do what little is in my control, and continually publicize my experiences dealing with PayPal customer service.
Hopefully, enough doubt will be raised that some folks will think twice about using PayPal. That will be good enough for me...
posted on June 13, 2001 11:13:24 AM
Hi purplehaze1967,
I am showing the following on your case-
Buyer missed 60 day deadline to file claim. Under Buy Pro Guidelines. I am also showing that you were advised as such.
This issue was not caused by PayPal, as you were the one that did not supply the claim until after the guidelines.
This will be my last comment on this issue, as I do have other users to assist.
Thank you for the information. However, it does not cover any of the 5 questions I asked above.
Again there is no dispute about the timing of the claim. For you to answer every question by referring back to this point is quite useless.
I understand your decision to duck this issue and your refusal to answer the legitimate questions I asked. After all, none of those answers can be found in the TOU.
In fact, I am glad you responded the way you did. Now others can see for themselves what kind of customer service is provided by PayPal.
Since, by the answers you provided, you are practically begging me to stay active on this board. I'll close be saying 'See you soon'.
Rob
[ edited by purplehaze1967 on Jun 13, 2001 11:38 AM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 12:15:43 PM
Hi mrpotatohead,
I am going to make this short and concise...
1. The user paid another user.
2. Claim period ,at the time of transaction, was no later than 60 days after the date of the transaction.
3. The user making the claim filed nearly 3 months after the date of the original transaction, which would hinder our ability to recover on their behalf.
4. Claim would have been received and the user would have been advised that it was being investigated (which the user may be interpreting as validating the claim in their favor).
5. The claim would have been negated once the review found it was after the filing guidelines.
6. Customer was notified that the claim was rejected (and the why).
Not exactly...as I have posted many times, 'Shannon' was aware that I was out of bounds, but allwed me to file anyway, as this quote illustrates:
> Dear Mr. Militzer,
>
> Thank you for contacting PayPal.
>
> I will forward the information needed to
> file a fraud report. The fraud
> report may be filed from the date of
> promised delivery.
What does this mean:
The fraud report may be filed from the date of promised delivery.
Also, if it was a simple matter of tme filing too late, there is no reason for this claim to be in 'proccessing' for over 2 months. It would be a simple matter for any investigator to see this, and bounce my claim in less than one day.
Please try (I know it is hard, but try) to paint a complete picture of this case, not just the one little point that you repeatedly post as if it is some revelation.
thanks
Rob
[ edited by purplehaze1967 on Jun 13, 2001 12:27 PM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 12:30:54 PM
I knew he would be back.
edited to add...
damon-
I know you want to insist that the issues have been addressed. Unfortunately, the customer is the one who determines what issues he is interested in discussing, not you. Or do you not care what your customers' concerns are?
purplehaze has posted 5 clear, unambiguous questions, and you have posted twice to this thread without answering those questions. The fact that you have provided answers to other (unasked) questions is not good enough. As a customer service representative, you need to answer this customer's questions.
Or not... your choice, I suppose.
[ edited by mrpotatoheadd on Jun 13, 2001 12:40 PM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 12:40:56 PMI knew he would be back.
With the same old, same old...
Why does ppd refuse to acknowledge that a rep agreed to open the fraud case, knowing full well that I was filing too late? This is the whole crux of my argument. If 'Shannon' would have told me that I was too late, I'd have lived with it and been done. But, she did not.
I expended a decent amount of time and effort on this case, based on her approval, and am quite disinclined to let it drop while my questions remain. Notice I am not asking PayPal do do anything that would cost them any money, just to satisfy my issues with how my case was handled.
PPD and his repeated response that I filed too late (no matter what the question is) reminds me of my 3 year old nephew, who gets in these ruts where the answer to every question is 'ice cream', or whatever phrase he is fixated on at that moment...
[ edited by purplehaze1967 on Jun 13, 2001 12:44 PM ]
posted on June 13, 2001 01:48:18 PM
It is clear as day that PayPal advised this gentleman to file his claim, yet you keep pointing the finger at him.
Even more troubling, you continually ignore the multiple errors your own company made and the inconvenience and trouble this caused. I can only infer you are being intentionally mendacious.
posted on June 13, 2001 01:50:30 PM
Hi purplehaze1967,
Is there any possibility that you are confusing the acceptance of your email, in which you made the claim, with being validation of acceptance of the claim?
I have no way of knowing for sure what 'Shannon' meant by saying:
The fraud report may be filed from the date of promised delivery.
I can only go by the context of the exchange, and the inferences that a normal person would make when they read that statement.
I read it as meaning that, if the seller tells the buyer that shipping will be delayed 30 days (for example), the buyer has 30 (was 60) days from that date, not the date payement was issued.
I'd sincerely like to hear your interpretation of 'Shannons' sentence.
posted on June 13, 2001 03:52:52 PM
PurpleHaze was advised to submit the claim by PayPal.
That was clearly an error on PayPal's part that resulted in wasted time and frustration for PurpleHaze. He relied on your representative's guidance as any reasonable consumer would.
I have never witnessed such belligerence on the part of a customer service representative as I see on this board. It is shocking...
Without sounding like a negative person...The terms of use are the criteria by which all cases would be judged on.
The timeframe, at the time you made your transaction, was no later than 60 days (and no sooner than 30). The policy changed to within 30 days shortly after (November 11,2000).
I would still ask....why did you wait so long to file a claim if it was evident that there was a problem beforehand? Believe me, I am not trying to be combative about this, but the terms of use are clear on this and were on the web site at the time of the transaction.
posted on June 13, 2001 04:09:08 PM
I'm curious Re: a discussion just started in the Ebay section about a chargeback 16 MONTHS after the sale/payment/shipment...
PalPalDamon is a member here and is entitled to the same courtesy and respect as any other member. There have been several insulting comments in this thread.
Please do not continue in this vein. To do so will result in formal moderation calls and/or the locking of this thread.
posted on June 13, 2001 04:13:06 PM
The customer relied on your representative's guidance as any reasonable consumer would.
Damon, the arguments you are making are just the kind of tactics that the BBB does not look kindly on. After a year, do you still not get it? Good customer service is not about pointing to the TOU and blaming the customer.
If you don't believe me, call the BBB. They will explain to you personally that consumers are confronted with thousands of TOU and TOS each year.
As a consumer yourself, you must surely realize that a customer often has to rely on the guidance of a customer service rep and the good faith of a company.
If you can give me the name of the executive at PayPal in liason with the BBB, I'd like to pass these threads onto them.
posted on June 13, 2001 04:16:38 PM
The lesson is clear here. Don't believe anything anybody from PayPal says, except what's written in the online rules. Of course, the online rules are known to change frequently without any notice, so you can never be sure exactly what they said at the time of some dispute you're involved in...
Whenever the rules are unclear or ambiguous, PayPal reserves the right to interpret them however it wishes, including to change its mind retroactively about which interpretation to take. They don't owe any customer any explanation of their rule interpretations, even when they're contradictory.
To be honest, the delay was due 100% to ignorance on my part of the TOU. I was unaware that I even had any rights vis-a-vis PayPal on this. When I discovered that PayPal did offer this protection, I initiated a discussion with PayPal reps, which resulted in the e-mail I received from 'Shannon', which I interpreted as the go-ahead to file, despite being outside the window.
I really thought she was making an exception in my case, due to the seller claiming shipping delays. I feel most others would read that e-mail the same way.
But, that is counter to my current stance. I no longer hold out any hope that this case will get re-opened. I'd be totally satisfied with complete and honest answers to the five questions I asked at the start of this thread. Surely, filing too late does not disqualify me from getting questions answered, does it?
I also would like to apologize for any comments I made that were insulting, or were interpreted as such. I hope you can accept this apology, and understand the frustrating conditions that they were born out of.
Pat:
I want to also apologize to you for any insulting comments I have made. I sincerely do not want to be banished, or have any of my threads locked.
But, I hope you can understand, when questions are asked time and again, and the only answers the come back are flavors of 'You waited too long to file' (especially when that fact has nothing to do with the questions I asked), frustration builds, and replies can get a bit snippy.
It does seem that, at least for now, ppd and I are having a positive discussion. I really hope that I can get answers that will help me understand why my case was handled in the way it was, and I can move on.
Thank you for providing this forum for all of us to use.
To be honest, the delay was due 100% to ignorance on my part of the TOU. I was unaware that I even had any rights vis-a-vis PayPal on this. When I discovered that PayPal did offer this protection, I initiated a discussion with PayPal reps, which resulted in the e-mail I received from 'Shannon', which I interpreted as the go-ahead to file, despite being outside the window. "
This portion of your post, in addition to the previously posted information, is what I am basing all of my responses off of (The information I am providing is within our terms of use, which I can't change for any user.)
I am more than happy to answer customer questions about any of our policies, but I can't be responsible for the customer following them or misinterpreting them.
The details you have provided:
1. You purchased an item.
2. You noticed an issue with the transaction, yet you waited several months before filing the claim. The time period, at the time of the transaction (per our TOU) was no later than sixty days for filing a claim against the seller.
3. You possibly interpreted the acceptance of your email as validation of your claim.
4. You then received notification advising that they claim was denied because it was outside of our filing window.
While I am certainly sorry that you had an issue with a seller, I am trying to advise you as to why I can't have your claim re-opened and why there is nothing more that I can do on this particular issue. I can only have cases re-examined if we have not followed our policies or if we have made in error in processing.
I am more than happy to answer customer questions about any of our policies
The first post in this thread raised 5 questions. There is another one below. Correct me if I am wrong, but you have not answered any, instead choosing to repeat again and again that I filed too late. So are you more than happy to answer customer questions or not?
I can't be responsible for the customer following them or misinterpreting them.
I'll ask again...how do you interpret:
"The fraud report may be filed from the date of promised delivery."
Since you continue to assert that I am mis-interpreting this statement, the least you can do is to provide your (ie: the correct) interpretation of it.
I hope you can see my problem with you doing this without offering up any backing.
I can only have cases re-examined if we have not followed our policies or if we have made in error in processing.
I would also state that I have provided evidence of that both of these things have happened in my situation.
3. You possibly interpreted the acceptance of your email as validation of your claim.
No. I received an e-mail telling me I could file from the date of promised delivery, along with instructions on how to do so. I interpreted this is acceptance of my claim, and will continue to do so until another reasonable interpretation can be presented. It is not enough to claim that someone mis-interpreted something. Anyone could do that on any statement they wished, for any reason (or none at all).
4. You then received notification advising that they claim was denied because it was outside of our filing window.
No. I received notification (2+ months later) that my claim was denied since my transaction happened before 8/1/00. Untrue.
I don't know of anyone, including myself, who is saying that I did file within the 60 day window. For you to continue to fall back on that rationale as justification for bypassing my questions is quite puzzling, to say the least. There is nothing in the TOU that states a customer is not entitled to any answers if they file outside the window, even if they were instructed to do so by a PayPal rep.
If you read my 5 (now 6) questions, there is nothing there that would require PayPal to re-open my claim or to spend even one red cent on a refund for me. Answers are, in the immortal words of PayPal 'always free', aren't they?
I am going to remain out here until I feel these questions are answered directly, clearly, completely, and without excessive quoting from the TOU.
thanks
Rob
[ edited by purplehaze1967 on Jun 19, 2001 12:08 AM ]
