posted on January 4, 2001 10:47:08 PM new
I just read the entire transcript - that certainly was not like the CHAT that I attended - I was in auditorium 11.
Based on the edited transcript (for clarity I'm sure), it appears the die is cast and YAHOO has made up its mind.
posted on January 4, 2001 11:01:55 PM new
Thanks so much for the link. I could not be there for the chat, but see I did not actually MISS anything as it was not a discussion, but just the spouting of party line. -Rosalinda
TAGnotes - daily email synopsis about the Online Auction Industry http://www.topica.com/lists/tagnotes
posted on January 4, 2001 11:16:50 PM new
Let me say that I caught the last half of the "chat". This "transcript" put forth by Yahoo! has been edited to the extent that, for the most part, it does not reflect the comments and questions being posed by the participants.
posted on January 4, 2001 11:32:42 PM new
But they DID make it very clear they have ABSOLUTELY NO INTENTION of changing the default listing order back to time-ending, didn't they?
toyranch almost had me feeling sorry for them, supposedly a bunch of idealistic young kids trying their best to make Yahoo Auction number one on the net.
After reading the chat transcript, I don't sympathize with them at all. I'm MAD.
posted on January 5, 2001 12:02:35 AM new
Here's what I gathered from reading that transcript.
> We value your input as long as you don't ask us to change our minds about anything. We have your best interests at heart so bend over.
> We listen to our top sellers only. We do not want the housewives that are just trying to earn a little extra money.
> The listing order is going to stay the same no matter how much you complain about it.
> We are no longer limiting you to 1000 listings per month you can now feel free to spend more than $200-$2500 in listing fees per month.
> We are limiting new "users with a rating of 5 and under to have no more than five simultaneous winning bids." This will cut down on the number of deadbeats. Who needs new bidders anyway?
> We told you people before that sell crafts, trading cards and other small dollar items that we don't want you on our site. You are of absolutely no value to us and have nothing to contribute to our community. We want top quality, high dollar items only. So get lost and quit complaining!
> Our goal is to become a Business to Consumer auction site only. You amatures are making us look bad.
> We are also launching our new Auctions Monitoring program on the 10th. The purpose of this program, is to monitor your listings and make sure all items that are listed are of high quality... Remember Big brother, I mean our auction team, will be watching!
This is just my interpretation. Feel free to disagree if you wish...
[ edited by outoftheblue on Jan 5, 2001 12:17 AM ]
posted on January 5, 2001 12:30:12 AM new
A couple of questions/comments for the people that have taken an active role here and have been posting messages:
1) What are your major gripes with the chat? What did you expect to get out of it? How could it have possibly angered you more than the listings fee announcement?
2) I believe that a chat transcript can only include the questions and answers. Do you really want the comments of all the participants, including the hundreds that made comments such as "any hotties wanna have sex with me?" and "where tha fine women at?"
3) Listings order: believe it or not, everybody, when you view listings on ebay by going through a category (rather than typing in a search), you also get a jumbled listing. Don't believe me? Check it out yourself. On both ebay and Yahoo, when you type a search, your results are listed by ending time. So what's the issue?
4) Are you more angry at the fact that, in your opinion, the fee is too high, or are you simply angry at the concept of paying Yahoo! any fee? I'm hearing a lot of people saying that they're leaving for lycos or some other free site. That leads me to believe that many of you don't want to pay any fee at all. Is this true?
I prefer answers that are written after some thought was put in to them, rather than those written in the heat of passion. I understand that a lot of people are upset, but I think we'll all benefit if you take the extra 5 minutes to calm down and write an educated and well though out response. Thanks.
posted on January 5, 2001 12:35:34 AM new
OutoftheBlue -
It is interesting that we have both arrived at exactly the same conclusions based on the transcript proceeding that was furnished. I concur with Every point you made. You have articulated exactly my reaction to each item as I read the severely edited transcript.
I am trying hard to understand the logic behind YAHOO's decision, but I just can't seem to grasp how this decision to increase from cost from $0 to $.20+ per auction will help YAHOO in the long run, particularly if they maintain the jumbled ending times. Sellers will not be able to afford YAHOO for long.
On Ebay, when you pay your $.25 for 10 days + 10 more days if it does not sell, your item is guaranteed 4 prime exposures - 2 entering 1st day and 2 endings.
On YAHOO, you get no assured exposure unless you pay at least $.10 additional per day. So, for similar exposure to Ebay (even discounting the fact YAHOO does not have the viewers & buyers available that Ebay has), a seller will have to pay $.80 per auction for similar exposure - $.20 for listing + 1 relist=$.40 (20 days of listings) + $.40 for featuring for only 4 days (comparable to Ebay's 2 days opening & 2 days closing). $.80 for YAHOO versus $.25 per auction for much more exposure per item on Ebay. (I am discounting the YAHOO's gallery because there is no guarantee that any buyers will venture thru 420 pages in some categories to ever see the gallery picture of the item being auctioned.)
YAHOO, in effect, has become the most expensive auction on the internet for value received for any seller.
posted on January 5, 2001 07:54:28 AM new
Well I just read the whole transcript and I didn't see any thing but pat, programmed responses, like robots.
There was no real thought (beyond pat answers) in any of the responses.
There was NO openness by Yahoo of seeing anything suggested except what they have already decided, which is exactly what I expected - the same as eBay; which is AFTER a decision is made, eBay says "we talked to a lot of sellers and this is what they wanted," and then eBay has a chat with sellers, and nothing is accomplished, and no questions are actually addressed, and there is no point in the whole chat except to let the disgruntled vent.
BUT Yahoo you need to take a look and learn a lesson from Amazon. eBay has gotten away with this approach of major changes and doing as they wish, but they are #1 - Amazon tried the same thing a year or so ago, and in the process destroyed the site - it is now the deadzone!
YAHOO just because eBay has been able to pull this approach off, take a lesson from Amazon - it may not work so well for you
posted on January 5, 2001 08:03:14 AM newIF YAHOO MANAGEMENT HAD ANY REAL, PERSONAL EXPERIENCE IN THE AUCTION BUSINESS they would realize that the jumbled auction listing is not good for any seller. Buyer's can't find what they are seeking - and that doesn't help anyone.
No other auction site uses this ridiculous format, but obviously the Yahoo Management doesn't really understand the auction business.
YAHOO REALIZE ANYONE CAN QUICKLY GET A HIGH SELL THROUGH by manipulating, posting a lot of decent items at a steal, and moving their sell through ratio up. Then they can go back to selling as usual. This "reward" system of yours is too easy for major sellers to manipulate, AND too difficult for buyers to search.
posted on January 5, 2001 08:08:16 AM new
I agree. YooHoo needs to work on the site format. really get things kicking THEN start charging posting fees.
Give us something worth buying into first! Don't try and sell us a mule and promise us a stallion later! We want to see the stallion up front!!!
posted on January 5, 2001 08:17:28 AM new
okatzeff wrote-
<<<A couple of questions/comments for the people that have taken an active role here and have been posting messages:
1) What are your major gripes with the chat? What did you expect to get out of it? How could it have possibly angered you more than the listings fee announcement?
>>>
The fee announcement was bad enough, it was a business decision that Yahoo made that they have the right to make. But the chat was a dingenuous, BOGUS waste of time set up so that Yahoo management can say that they "honestly" asked for their users' opinions. The difference between the announcement and the chat is that the announcement was honest, the chat was a lie.
<<<2) I believe that a chat transcript can only include the questions and answers. Do you really want the comments of all the participants, including the hundreds that made comments such as "any hotties wanna have sex with me?" and "where tha fine women at?" >>>
A chat transcript can include anything that the chat transcribers feel it is IN THEIR INTEREST to include. "I" really would like ALL the comments of ALL the participants that are RELEVANT TO THE ISSUE included, unless someone answered the question about the location of the hotties, then who knows, I might want that too.
Including all relevant comments instead of editing them out, and leaving mostly their stupid, canned responses, would at least give SOME legitimacy to the chat.
<<<3) Listings order: believe it or not, everybody, when you view listings on ebay by going through a category (rather than typing in a search), you also get a jumbled listing. Don't believe me? Check it out yourself. On both ebay and Yahoo, when you type a search, your results are listed by ending time. So what's the issue?>>>
The issue is that whatever the issue IS, Yahoo management won't address it, even to give an answer like yours above. Sellers are assuming that the customer service post-fee will be the same as pre-fee. That's not acceptable.
<<<4) Are you more angry at the fact that, in your opinion, the fee is too high, or are you simply angry at the concept of paying Yahoo! any fee? I'm hearing a lot of people saying that they're leaving for lycos or some other free site. That leads me to believe that many of you don't want to pay any fee at all. Is this true?>>>
"That leads me to believe that many of you don't want to pay any fee at all"???
Ummm, I can't disagree with that, even though I'm a Powerseller on eBay and pay BEAUCOUP fees there, I'd SURRRRRRRRRE rather pay none. And the anger is NOT at the fact that there are going to be fees, the anger is at the fact that with the current sell rate, it's not worth it to list on Yahoo, leaving the vast majority of the sellers with ZERO choice but to stop listing there, either immediately, or in the very near future.
IF Yahoo was a venue that had a comparable sell rate and comparable traffic as eBay, you might hear some groaning, but the vast majority of sellers would pay the fees, and a good percentage of those (including myself) wouldn't mind too much.
posted on January 5, 2001 08:34:54 AM new
I think if you all read the recent thread about the Yahoo stock you will see what the answer is. Yahoo stock is and has been falling. So has eBay's but not as drastically. In the report it is stated that the revenue brought in by charging all the sellers will increase profit enough to pay the stock holders a little more. They are just looking for ways to keep the people who own stock happy and NOT SELLING their stock. We are just pawns in the game they are playing to keep YAHOO as a whole afloat. They figured because the majority of the sellers are people who do this for a hobby we would be too stupid to move, etc. I don't think the money is the issue for the sellers, but rather the fact that Yahoo has lied to the sellers so many times it isn't funny. Credit cards were supposed to get rid of deadbeat bidders (Not in my experience but it did get rid of some great bidders who don't use credit cards). The mixed up order things came up was supposed to entice people to bid on things they wouldn't otherwise see. No more just looking at what's closing. People don't like to wait. They want to bid at the last minute and KNOW its theirs. Who wants to wait 7 to 10 days to see if you win something? Yahoo Auctions was supposed to be FREE and somewhere I read a statement that it would always remain FREE. How are the sellers supposed to trust a company that builds a relationship on lies. You wouldn't work for a boss very long that told you lies. Customer service is non existant. We all know that from emailing Yahoo. Why pay for services that don't exist. They have asked for more and offered nothing but the normal canned response. The sellers are being punished for the lack of bidders on the site.
posted on January 5, 2001 08:35:10 AM new
tentwentytwo- Thank you for your well thought out, detailed answers. I welcome others to take the same approach and to think about the questions I asked. With more responses like tentwentytwo's, maybe we can get somewhere on this matter.
And jwpc, before you say that "no site uses this ridiculous format" (referring to the listing order), I suggest you check out ebay, as I suggested in my previous post. Their listing order is identical to Yahoo's.
posted on January 5, 2001 02:26:14 PM new
<i>1) What are your major gripes with the chat? What did you expect to get out of it? How could it have possibly angered you more than the listings fee announcement? </i>
That they only chose to respond to very generic questions with their same spin-control answers. But, sadly, yes - that was exactly what I expected.
<i>2) I believe that a chat transcript can only include the questions and answers. Do you really want the comments of all the participants, including the hundreds that made comments such as "any hotties wanna have sex with me?" and "where tha fine women at?" </i>
Agree. But what I would like to see happen is for Yahoo to take time after the chat to review and respond to the hundreds of more detailed questions that were officially submitted. Have responses to THOSE questions posted in a Q&A format as they did with the chat capture.
<i>3) Listings order: believe it or not, everybody, when you view listings on ebay by going through a category (rather than typing in a search), you also get a jumbled listing. Don't believe me? Check it out yourself. On both ebay and Yahoo, when you type a search, your results are listed by ending time. So what's the issue? <i>
You are correct on the first point, browsing a category at eBay brings up a jumbled mess also. That doesn't mean Yahoo has to follow suit. But you are incorrect about searches ... a keyword search on Yahoo also brings up a jumbled mess.
<i>4) Are you more angry at the fact that, in your opinion, the fee is too high, or are you simply angry at the concept of paying Yahoo! any fee? I'm hearing a lot of people saying that they're leaving for lycos or some other free site. That leads me to believe that many of you don't want to pay any fee at all. Is this true? </i>
Of your choices it would be 'simply angry at the concept of paying Yahoo! any fee'. Though I wouldn't say I am angry about it, I just simply won't do it. I was a Power Seller on eBay who left during the "it's only a dollar" fiasco in the summer of 1999. I never objected to paying eBay fees, because I felt I got good value for my money. I don't feel that Yahoo offers enough value that justifies a listing fee.
Also, to clarify, I didn't leave eBay over the $1.00 ... I left because of the way they mishandled the situation, including talking down to and insulting their sellers. Yahoo's repeated claims that items that don't get bids on their first listing aren't 'quality merchandise' is even MORE insulting.
At this point, I don't what Yahoo could do to repair the damage they have done. Certainly if I treated my customers the way we have been treated by Yahoo, I would be out of business in no time.
