posted on July 13, 2001 06:07:29 PM new
I have just started to post on Yahoo with just a few wins so far-but I find the site so much more "user friendly" than EBAY -I think that instead of trying to compete with EBAY in a general way they should pick up the slack in the Antique Market that EBAY has abandoned- EBAY has made their catagories so confusing that many people are just turned off- I just scrolled down EBAY's antiques catagories and with a few exceptions found nothing but junk that deservedly had no bids- That would not have been true on EBAY 2 years ago- There is a void out there and there are plenty of potential buyers and sellers in the antiques market - I think Yahoo should really make an effort to court them
posted on July 15, 2001 10:05:18 AM new
Just stopped by there this morning....haven't taken a serious look at Yahoo's new look and format in a good long while....
I bought and sold a couple things there when the site was fairly new back in '99..
I agree...found it much more comfortable to navigate and it always knows who I am..
Now if they can just get some sellers of vintage/antique jewelry to vend their wares there....
posted on July 15, 2001 10:41:06 AM new
A year ago my ebay sales to Yahoo sales was 10:1. This year it is 3:1. That was my plan to adapt my merchendise specifically to what sells on Yahoo.
I also would like to see more collectible/antique categories on Yahoo grow in sales. The problem is Yahoo doesn't want those categories anymore than ebay does. The move is into practicals. Faster turaround and bigger net sales price.
One of the smaller sites will have to take over in the coll/antique categories.
posted on July 15, 2001 10:57:04 AM newquickdraw29
As you currently sell on Yahoo, could you elaborate on the whys and hows regarding how the sites are discouraging antiques/collectibles?
If I may use myself as a example....when I've purchased a vintage Omega wristwatch, I may pay hundreds to thousands of dollars for one item, which would bring in fees that would top dozens of low-priced widgets when utilizing only the bandwidth and server space of one.
IME, on eBay anyway, it's the low-priced flea market jewelry that sits there with no bids, using bandwidth and server space...the quality/vintage stuff nearly always has bids on it, unless the start price is outrageously expensive.
If the sites really are trying to discourage listings in these areas, I submit it would defy conventional wisdom and logic and, for me, as a businessperson, good business sense as well...
I vastly prefer, as a small shop, to engage in large, highly profitable sales, versus many low-priced, less profitable ones....the overhead/time of processing a high dollar job is much less (per dollar of sale) than that of a low dollar one...
But, then again, I own a machine shop and don't sell collectibles...
posted on July 15, 2001 08:23:32 PM new
The two sites are moving to practicals because that is where the growth is. Even Amazon said "ok books are profitable but we want growth," so they are moving into electronics.
The question about a vintage expensive watch is how many can one possibly sell? How many are possibly around at one time to boost ebays/Yahoo's bottom line?
Compare that to a digital camera. When you run out you order more, the supply is unlimited, and there are so many people who still need a digital camera, compared to a vintage watch, your high end buyers dry up I would presume.
posted on July 15, 2001 09:04:40 PM new
Interesting corollary....
I have purchased a number of pieces of camera equipment and accessories as a result of my research on eBay (both digital and film)...it was a very good starting point and I did buy a couple of items there.
I found often I could buy the same model camera or accessory off-eBay from the same vendor for less money, away from the frenzy of newbie bidding...
I actually had one vendor sell me a lens off-auction ( I was second high bid) for not only less the the high bid amount but for less than I had bid (about 15% less)...he didn't have the lenses for sale on his web site or I wouldn't have even bid...
For him, eBay was inexpensive advertising and a way to make more profit because of buyer inexperience...mine included.
IMO, eBay or Yahoo or any other online auction/commerce venu will self-destruct if they start trying to compete with the giants in the wholesale/retail widget business. Once the monsters thaw out and get their online presence up to the level of the B/M force they are, these "big boys" of now (Ebay et al) will likely be mere footnotes in online retailing....Yes, I have been a WalMart online customer for nearly 2 years now...
Just this evening I went to look at a seller list of a reputable jeweler I do business with on eBay and found their listings choked with eBay store items....I had to thumb through nearly 100 to get to their auction items...this same vendor has the same store items on their secure website and I can purchase them in complete privacy......Will I look at their seller list in the future? Yes, but that's because I already have a relationship with them.
In the near term, I agree with you that low cost, unlimited supply widgets will increase eBay listings, sales, fees and perceived shareholder value but, in the long run (looking 10-15 years out), I predict they will either be bought out by one of the giants or become a relative footnote in online commerce...
I guess I would normally apply the same opinion to Yahoo but something tells me that their diversity and innovation will serve them well in the long run....if they can only turn the enormous amount of portal users into auction and commerce customers, they would soon dwarf eBay.
I've been a Yahoo user since 1997 and, other than when a regional router has been down in my area, I have never once failed to get into Yahoo, whether it was to make a purchase from a vendor using their payment service, accessing my stock portfolio or getting e-mail. In fact, I only use Yahoo for e-mail with my ISP's mail server as a backup.....
Sorry about the long-winded response....I have some strong opinions about where e-commerce is going and believe that change in this medium is going to move at the same speed as the zeros and ones we have come to depend on so much in such a short time...
posted on July 15, 2001 09:31:31 PM new
Interestingly enough, last Christmas I hit all the big websites (Best Buy, Circuit City, Buy.com; BlueLight, Amazon and a few others) and went away empty, either for being hard to navigate, or not having my item in stock. I went to ebay and found everything I needed and bought it. Not buying at the B&M's was my choice, expecially around Christmas.
It's possible these sites could improve their ease of use and add a better selection, but online sales aren't their top priority. They probably hire second rate people to operate it, and keep their best operating the B&M's. Ebay will remain king for a long time until the majority quit buying at B&M's.
posted on July 15, 2001 11:57:02 PM new
Ebay will remain King as long as foolish auction sites like Amazon and Yahoo keep shooting themselves in the foot.
Yahoo especially has become the biggest laughing stock of the Internet Auction Community and they don't even realize it.
posted on July 16, 2001 04:10:01 PM new
heygrape,
So IYHO what should yahoo do to get back in the game? What are the solutions for success to compete with ebay? could they do it? could they do anything to turn back the tide? IMHO somebody somewhere has to give ebay a run. no body benefits from a monopoly accept the fortunate few. competition is good for the marketplace right. Anyone else?
wb.
posted on July 16, 2001 05:13:12 PM new
IMHO is might be too late for Yahoo to regain their #2 position.
What it would take would be a humble admittance of what their know-it-all attitude did to them and their stupidity of not listening to their users when their users were trying to help them. Then they would have to actually "ask" for help and actually "listen". I don't see that ever happening.
Just like Amazon, Yahoo will not admit what fools they have made of themselves.
Can you imagine if they came forward and admitted their foopahs and asked it's users for advice? It would be unbelievable the attention they would get in the news and everywhere else. People would perk up and notice immediately a company with that kind of heart and desire to be the best! Wow! A new approach at business coming from the internet!
It will never happen. The yuppies running the show think they are so smart. Yeah, real smart. Smart enough to kill their auction site and become a laughing stock.
Prior to January 10th, Yahoo was right on Ebays heels. Now, Ebay is laughing at Yahoo all the way to the Bank. Oh well... we tried with all our might to warn Yahoo and they refused to listen. Now they are doomed to be a second rate side show auction site. It was their own choice. They have nobody to blame but themselves. But first they need to actually figure out they've made a mistake, which they haven't done yet.
posted on July 16, 2001 05:58:58 PM new
Yes you are right. Yahoo was just really coming into their own and was in a right position to give ebay a real competition. I was just starting to move the rest of my stuff over to yahoo because the sales were picking up tremendiously. Ebay's fees had become too high to make any kind of profit. Then yahoo started their fee system and my sales at yahoo died. The majority of people that list there now is the ones with funny money left. When that runs out then the collasp will BE EVEN WORST.
posted on July 17, 2001 08:04:04 PM new
Good reading here and I see you all certainly have a sound grasp on Yahoo's PLUMMET to mediocrity. Not too long ago I GASPED to learn that Yahoo had decided to attach the Porn industry as their main focus.
When I heard that---------they lost me FOR GOOD!
Who needs a bunch of sexually driven profiteers running an auction site?
posted on July 17, 2001 11:09:12 PM new
While you think Yahoo's numbers have plummeted to mediocracy, the page views, at least mine, have remained steady.
Yahoo doesn't even want to be the next ebay, it is a way too innovative company to follow in anybodies shoes.
While it was easy to accuse Yahoo of not listening before, they have publically admitted their mistake. I've already taken a couple of polls issued by Yahoo (non auction), so they definitely are seeking users opinions.
posted on July 18, 2001 07:25:38 AM new
After reading this thread I needed to say something. I have been in the on line auction business for a few years now. I started with eBay way back when it was mostly antiques and collectibles, not the on line discount shopping store it is now.
I sell antique and collectible items, mostly linen and lace but other items as well when I find a good deal.
My sales had been very good on eBay until around May of this year, then all of a sudden it all went south!! I had good feedback and happy customers, so what happened?
I struggled through May and listed a few items in June by the end of June I wasn't getting a single bid!!
I moved the same items over to yahoo and sold nearly every one of them. And have done pretty well with my listings so far this month. Granted it was single bid sales but it was sales!! I was getting nothing from eBay. Someone has to hunt for my items. There is no listings per si for antique linen.
I know I do get frustrated at ebay when I am looking for something and have to weed through hundreds of pages of unrelated items. For example: I needed a picture frame of a certain size. I searched using "picture frame", it came back with something like 350 pages. Give me a break!! So, I tried to cut it down to a reasonable amount by being more detailed, so I did a search "picture frame 17 x 11", it came back with 200 pages and most of that was for cameras!! I gave up! Sometimes there is just too much stuff and it can drive away people like me. It discourages me when I access a sellers other auctions and get 15 or 30 pages too. I like to see it all but I don't want to spend my life looking eather.
posted on July 18, 2001 10:53:23 AM new
I myself was quite upset by Yahoo's fees. I have however, slowly started listing some items there using my 'funny money'.
I have gotten some sales, usually on items that I already wasted time and money by listing on ebay.
My personal sell through rate at Yahoo is an estimated 10-15% Rarely do I get more than one or two bids on any item, and there is still the deadbeat problem. I like the site and its well thought out features, and believe Yahoo, and NOT ebay provides the best model for the online auction site of the future.
Keeping all that in mind, I am no longer as mad at yahoo as I was 7 months ago. After fruitless efforts on Bidville and some other sites, I once again am forced to consider Yahoo a reasonable alternitive to ebay for selected items.
Now --- once my 'funny money' runs out, I may have a different feeling about yahoo, that remains to be seen...
posted on July 18, 2001 11:51:09 AM new
seems like everyone has a complaint, but not many solutions. (besides the idea of them saying "we were wrong" my thinking is that they'd be better off changing the pricing to get closer to ebay - and hear me out here, meaning, its fairer to pay someone when you sell rather than when you list. If the listing fee were to lower the spam, then they can sleep at night knowing that they've achieved this. sell thru up? likely. Listings growing again, no - leveled off or sinking slowly, maybe summer slump that ebay and all the sites have. so now, change fees attract back sellers with a fvf, and allow a relisting when an item doesn't sell. they need more sellers to bring more bidders. Should I apply for the job?
wb
posted on July 18, 2001 11:55:37 AM new
wedgyboy-- That is what we have been telling them from the beginning. FVF instead of listing fee. It fell on deaf ears.
posted on July 18, 2001 12:13:24 PM new
A FVF does not achieve Yahoo's objective of bringing only the best sellers, and keeping away the poor sellers. I told you, Yahoo does not want to be another ebay with every seller and his cousin joining the fray.
Remember one excellent high volume seller replaces a hundred small sellers. Yahoo doesn't want your nickels (unless your selling success increases), that's the way it is, and always will be.
posted on July 18, 2001 11:41:59 PM new
quickdraw29, you said, "While it was easy to accuse Yahoo of not listening before, they have publically admitted their mistake."
Pardon my ignorance, but I must have missed Yahoo's public admission that they made a mistake. Will you please point me in the right direction---show me when, where, and how they made this public admission of their royal screw-up???????????????
"Remember one excellent high volume seller replaces a hundred small sellers."
High volume sellers can't list the VARIETY of items needed to make Yahoo Auction successful. That strategy is working for them in a FEW categories, like sports cards and coins, but there's no way high volume sellers will bring the hard-to-find, one-of-a-kind, vintage/antique items that draw the bidders back to the Auction time and time again. Ebay's going to find that out after they succeed in running off all the small sellers.
10-15% sell-through is very common on Yahoo (that's what many of us were doing BEFORE the fees started). The question is, is that ENOUGH sell-through to justify all the WORK of listing, and the EXPENSE of listing??? Can you make enough profit on the 2 or 3 items that DO sell to pay the listing fees for the other 17 or 18 that don't sell???????
I know that I can't---I reduced my items down to giveaway prices in April and still got nothing but window shoppers. It got so bad I even quit listing using my feedback credits (just not worth all the work of listing, even when free). There's no way in the world I can actually PAY Yahoo's listing fees with real money (out of my pocket) unless they get more bonafide BUYERS for the Auction, and there's no sign they've done ANYTHING to recruit new buyers (though that was their PROMISE, remember?).
The FVF or flat monthly fee or any of the other solutions we suggested would have been so much more WORKABLE for the sellers, and we'd all still be listing and selling on Yahoo Auction had they bothered to listen to us. I don't think they're listening still, regardless what quickdraw29 says.
posted on July 19, 2001 08:44:38 AM new
My best guesses as to what's going on with Yahoo are these:
1) First and foremost they made an at-the-top decision to emphasize their wonderful server power as an already-developed net portal to avoid much expansion of human payroll. Look at how bloated with "pinkliners" and various service employees eBay has gotten, and it's strictly a commerce site where Yahoo has major aspects like finance message boards and services, and its chatroom and club formats.
2) Having made this umbrella strategy decision, it was, and is, essential NOT to promise much that requires non-automated decisions. What would happen with FVF's rather than just listing fees? Sellers would be emailing them with details of deadbeat buyers having stiffed them and wanting fee refunds, that's what! That would require many more employees and they've decided to automate things, NOT hire humans. End of story. Note that you pretty much get a listing fee refunded (but not featuring fee?) automatically if you wait a couple weeks and jump through a couple hoops with that "escalate complaint" nonsense. Me, I ignore all that since I have very few deadbeats in my selling specialty, and have active multiple bids mostly so I can just blacklist a deadbeat and ask the person 50c down the list if they now want to buy. Why delay things and use my time to get a lousy 20c back from Yahoo?
3) Recall, too, that the "free listing" approach went hand-in-hand with the advertising revenue business strategy which unexpectedly collapsed all across the net late last year. Yahoo had to come up with a different configuration and they seem to have had to do it WITHOUT human personnel out "here" in the real world. They seem to have gone by brainstorming done with a few fairly random "expert contacts".... maybe antique art gallery owners in Palm Springs while spending stock options money on home furnishings, or a bunch of quick-money artists met at high-overhead trade shows. What? Set up email and live chat conferences with REAL present users and LISTEN to them?
Not listening to us six months ago was a huge and costly error, for sure, but I also think any such process needed to be based on a better understanding by users as to what the essential business constraints had to be. In concealing that info from us (and making us speculate llike I'm doing here), they assured themselves of NOT getting relevant advice from any of us. Seeing that our advice based on our best guesses as to the situation was falling on deaf ears, a huge and justified sentiment of bitterness and anger quickly developed and isn't going to go away any time soon.
typo
[ edited by pyth00n on Jul 19, 2001 08:48 AM ]
posted on July 19, 2001 09:19:02 AM new
Grannee, if you get your nose out of the "Knitting" magazine and pick up "Business Week" you would have caught the whole article (May 17, 2001).
{My browser crashes on BW site so I can't get a link}.
Basically Yahoo admitted they couldn't play stubborn anymore, the old days of getting everything under their terms won't fly.
As for auctions, forget about it, here's an article from TheStreet.com that backs up what I had presumed to be Yahoo's new model: "Yahoo's ambition is to woo some of the larger corporations and liquidators that currently use ebay to unload high-priced goods. The business guys are looking for an alternative to ebay." Grannee they aren't listening to you because you are not Yahoo's (auction seller) future, Yahoo does not want to be another ebay!
Yes large companies can replace small companies very easily. You've already pointed out that, "10-15% sell-through is very common on Yahoo (that's what many of us were doing BEFORE the fees started)." Doesn't seem buyers are exactly rushing to buy from small sellers now, the one's selling the variety, But they certainly are buying from the larger volume sellers!
posted on July 20, 2001 07:40:14 PM new
Hello quickdraw29 and pyth00n,
I'm new in your forum, joined eBay a few months ago, listed a few one-of-a-kind items as I am a tapestry weaver, did not sell a thing, paid a lot of listing fees. Guess I am much too small for this game. Anyone have any encouraging ideas?
artweave
posted on July 20, 2001 10:33:22 PM new
artapestry,
First, I'd say it's likely that if your specialty isn't patronized or watched for on eBay, you won't find any buyers on Yahoo, either, unless you already had followers to bring with you, in effect.
I'd suggest thinking about whether you did enough market research before you tried eBay, say, did you do general searches through the eBay system on "tapestry" or "weaving" or any other likely key words? (Would that specialty be looked for in "carpet" areas??) If you do, you might find some odd subcategory that would be better to list in. If you find a few other sellers with similar items you can at least go back a month following their auctions and results. Did they have some special trick? Did they have any success? Did they start low and let the market decide value, or use reserves? Did they time listings to end Saturday and Sunday evenings? Did they pay the heavy fee to Feature their listings or would that not give results? Did they use the picture gallery? Did they write up interesting text to convey a sense of personality with the artwork?
Actually, you might try the most likely "key" words on a general net search like Lycos or Ask Jeeves... you might find some specialized web sites that way, maybe even specialized message boards. The Usenet newsgroups might help too... try DejaNews for searching archives there.
There used to be a participant here on AW who listed (or lists, not sure if she's still around) homemade quilts on eBay, Hart Cottage Quilts, HCQ for short. She's not posting here anymore but I think may be active on some other board. She might share advice if you could find her.
posted on July 21, 2001 05:46:50 AM new
Hello pyth00n,
Thank you for your detailed reply, I appreciate your suggestions, and yes, I did a bit of research but I felt that I had little competition in my area of product and that this alone would be helpful. Your perspective seems to indicate marketing skills, which I must work on. I am grateful for the information you kindly offered. Thank you.
posted on July 21, 2001 04:19:35 PM new
I have identical lots for sale on Yahoo and eBay. My Yahoo lots get 5 hits and my Ebay 40 hits. Need I say more? Having read some of the above comments, I guess you would like to know that you can still list for free on http://www.yahoo.co.uk
[ edited by GreetingsfromUK on Jul 21, 2001 04:28 PM ]
my thinking is that they'd be better off changing the pricing to get closer to ebay - and hear me out here, meaning, its fairer to pay someone when you sell rather than when you list. If the listing fee were to lower the spam, then they can sleep at night knowing that they've achieved this. sell thru up? likely. Listings growing again, no - leveled off or sinking slowly, maybe summer slump that ebay and all the sites have. so now, change fees attract back sellers with a fvf, and allow a relisting when an item doesn't sell. they need more sellers to bring more bidders. Should I apply for the job?