posted on July 25, 2001 04:44:59 PM new
I sold someone a glass bell back at the end of June. I received payment in form of a money order and quickly. I shipped the item to him on June 30, then I receive an email saying he received it and it was all busted up. He wanted a refund. No problem. I told him I was sorry, I thought I had packed it well enough, but I would refund his money. Then he mails me back saying that instead of refunding his money just mail him another like it. So I of course e-mailed him back that same day and told him I would get another bell shipped out to him. This was on July 3. I ordered the bell from my supplier that day and it was indeed shipped by my supplier on July 6. Now he e-mails me today saying that since I am not responding to him and he has not received the bell yet he wants his money refunded including shipping. I am thinking that this is not going to be over until I refund his money (even though I am not sure he is telling me the truth)but to refund the money he paid for shipping!!!! I have paid to have this shipped to him two times. One of those times he did indeed receive it. And the second time my supplier did indeed ship it. It is not like it has not been shipped. Shipping charges have been paid. What do you guys think I should do?
Crystal
posted on July 25, 2001 06:39:28 PM new
I think I would email him nicely that you are sorry if he has not had a response from you, must be a mail problem. Then I would advise him that your supplier has assured you the merchandise was shipped (provided they have-if they haven't ask them about it). Then outline the "steps" you will take. Something along the line you will put a trace on the items through the shipper. Ask him to please furnish what ever information he will be asked as a result of the trace. Then after the trace is complete and it has not been found, you will issue a refund less shipping within 10 days of the end of the trace. If the item had been insured, you could at least file a claim.
If he says he would just rather have a refund then sweetly say OK as soon as I receive a photo of the broken item or receive it's remains, because you will use that to try and get YOUR money back!
How can he be angry at you for being such a sweetie and how could he NOT help you try and get your money back due to rough shipping if it's for real? The most it will cost him if he is being 100% honest is a little more time. Just remember to stay nice.
If he negs respond, sent item TWICE claimed 1 broken and 1 never arrived. Offered refund upon proof of breakage.
How could that offend anyone and possible future scammers would realize your NOT easy pickins!
I also REQUIRE insurance on ALL breakables. No exception and it is stated in my auction. Even on low $$ amounts. At least you get something to refund if it should be lost or broken!
posted on July 25, 2001 10:45:02 PM new
sulyn1950,
Very good advice, thank you. I am going to keep it in mind. I do have a question for you though. I state in all my auctions that insurance is optional and extra. (It was not an option in the case of the bell unfortuantely.) If the buyer then chooses not to insure the item and it gets broken, or lost, am I required to refund their money. I just want to make sure this does not happen again. This is not the first breakable I have shipped but it is the first to be broken (and first to be lost) and he is giving me a major headache. I just want to protect myself a little better. Is the option of insurance enough or should I go ahead and require it on all breakables like you do?
Crystal
posted on July 26, 2001 01:13:09 AM new
Yes, very good advice Sulyn.
Crissy, for the future keep in mind even with ins there's no guarantee of a refund. The receiver has to get the green slip and receipt of shipping payment from you then take those & the package with all original packing materials to their P.O. to fill out claim forms. If the P.O. decides the packing was not adequate enough to prevent breakage they deny the claim. I don't know if it's true but I've heard they take about 60 days after the buyer turns over the goods to let them know if it will be denied or refunded. It doesn't seem worth the hassles involved to even buy ins on small dollar items.
I make ins mandatory on purchases over $25, optional for under. A disclaimer of "seller not responsible for uninsured shipments" means just that. No refunds and if the buyer asks you politely say sorry and refer them back to the auction description. If they neg you respond with buyer declined ins, ad stated seller not liable in the event of no ins.
The only item I ever had broken was one I had a duplicate of. I told the buyer I'd mail a replacement at my expense but they would have the return the orginal first at their expense. Lucky for me they happily agreed and there was no further problem. That pkg was uninsured and at the time I had no disclaimer in my ads. I sure do now!
posted on July 26, 2001 06:51:31 AM new
Just as a note, I had an insured item broken by USPS maybe a year and a half ago. I emailed a scan of the receipt plus an email invoice for the purchase to the buyer and they were immediately refunded the amount (under $50, that may be a key threshold amount) by their local post office. I was surprised it was that smooth, and not sure the policies still work that way. Very recently an insured bubble mailer was completely lost and THAT takes a lot longer; you have to wait a month before filing a claim, then the seller has to fill out a form, provide the receipts and invoice to a postal clerk, with the USPS sending the forms on to the buyer for further statements by them... then eventually the refund should be sent to whichever party you specify. (Perhaps the buyer can initiate the forms from his direction, too, if he has receipt copies. Not sure.)
My general thinking is that items worth $5-$10- $15 or so aren't worth the expense of insurance, or the time involved if you have to make a claim. I figure the tad extra I charge for "S&H" covers for a "split the difference" policy... I'll offer to refund half the cost OR replace the item (if I have similar on hand) for roughly my cost or a bit less. I don't try to explain that in my listings, I just offer those options if I get a loss complaint. Of course, the buyer can have insurance if they ask for it and pay. A few times I've paid insurance at my expense on $100+ or so sales, depends on how paranoid I feel that day.
I certainly would ask for a scan or digital photo of breakage, and pieces returned at my expense if an image not possible from buyer, UNLESS the buyer showed high FB with no negs and fusses, or unless the item value was trivial.
posted on July 26, 2001 10:42:39 AM new
I was in retail for many years. I was constantly amazed, sometimes left speechless at peoples' perception of a "business" and how they "operated" and their belief that I must be "rolling" in the cash! They just couldn't understand why I might baulk at refunding on an item that obviously had been missused/abused! Walmart would!
I even had people tell me they "knew" I had only paid XX for the item and since I sold it for XX, I made a "huge" profit. Surely I could give them back at least 1/2!
Of course, these people did not know what I had paid. If they really had know that, they would have known I did not have a "huge" profit. I was in a small town and competition was merciless!
I was really glad to get out of that venue! However, since I have been using the auction venue, I am still amazed at the misconceptions. From both buyers and sellers. I don't know how much profit most sellers make on their items, but I don't make enough to absorb the loss of the item in shipping! I have yet to find an item that I can pick up (even for nothing), clean, photo/scan, write an ad, pay a listing fee, pay a payment service fee, wrap in bubble wrap, place in a box with peanuts, tape close, carry to the PO to mail, give a refund should it be lost or broken ANDstill make a profit!!!!! Haven't even gotten into the "fixed" expenses....
What am I doing wrong!?!?!?!?!
I constantly see sellers say "that's part of doing business" or "that's just the cost of doing business". You can't add a "handling fee" that just cost of doing business. If the item is not insured and it gets lost or damaged, just do a refund, "it's part of the cost of doing business".....OK, just where are you getting the money to do that and stay in business, much less make a profit?????
I have heard, but am not positive, that auctions fall under the same "rules" as mail order and in mail order the CUSTOMER MUST RECEIVE THEIR ITEM OR GET A REFUND (not sure that is true either)! Perhaps that is why ALL catalog companies charge SHIPPING/HANDLING fees that would be considered a RIP OFF to the typical auction user!
As to adding a disclaimer about non-insured items not being refunded, if you do not issue a refund upon request, the buyer can still "just do a chargeback" (I see that recommended all the time) or he can go to the USPS and file a "fraud" report (I see that one recommended too). Buyers have become accustomed to paying a $1.00 for a $10.00 item, getting it sent as cheaply as possible (they don't want to pay one cent more than necessary) will not pay for insurance if given the option and then if it doesn't make it to them in perfect shape, demand a complete refund INCLUDING shipping!
Maybe, it's just me, but I see something wrong with this picture. I can't give my stuff away and remain in business for very long.
I don't think it really matters if the item cost $.50 or $500. If you do not make a "profit" (cost of item less ALL expensenses which includes such diddies as rent, utilities, business property taxes, packaging, business equipment and a multitude of misc + what you get to actually put in your pocket/bank), then you are not really making any money and could even be operating a "non-profit" organization/charity!
You can "gross" or "generate" a $1,000,000 in revenue, but if it takes/cost a $1,000,001 to do that you have not made a profit!
That's why I do not offer insurance as an option. It is a standard part of my shipping. The only "out of my pocket..out of my profit" expense in shipping is the DC to PROVE I mailed it, should they try a chargeback. I don't make the customer pay for that. It is for my protection not theirs. Since, I place insurance on ALL items, if it should get lost or damaged I then have a time frame to work with. I let the buyer know the steps that will be necessary and an approximate of the time that will be involved. I have never had a problem.
Forgive the "rant" just having one of those days....
[ edited by sulyn1950 on Jul 26, 2001 11:19 AM ]
