posted on March 4, 2001 09:05:39 AM new
Ok ...*sigh*...It has been over a week and I still have nothing from Paypal concerning the release of our accounts. I have grown very irrtated and feel violated. No one should be treated so bad and ignored without reason.
The time has come to persue legal channels and my letters go out today and my calls will be made come Monday. I keep excellent records of our financail transactions so any/all expenses incurred will be listed with my formal complaints from here on in.
I am sorry, Damon, that your company is so unethical and that you work hard for nothing.I think you may be one of the only real people with a conscious and soul who works there. I have waited for over a month to have some hope of settling this matter and proof is in the pudding.
PayPal is full of greedy liars, cheats and theives and I am over being taken for an ignorant person who will roll over and take what is dished out.
For those who need addresses or links, here is a list to utilizeplease note some have forms to fill out )
Santa Clara BBB (PP is in this county) http://www.bbb.org/reports/index.asp
Nat'l Fraud Info Center
http://www.bbb.org/repindex.asorts
FTC Western Div
http://www.ftc.gov/ro/western.htm
Santa Clara DA's office
http://www.santaclarada.org/consumer.html
St Atty General's office
http://www.santaclarada.org/consumer.html
Attny looking into a class action suit
http://www.outofthedark.com/CorporateWars/PayPal/
posted on March 4, 2001 10:07:40 AM new
I'm willing to sue paypal too because I'm short with $5,000 because of them, if anybody starts a class action please count on me too - I'll provide proof and support for our cause. E-mail: [email protected]
posted on March 4, 2001 08:20:23 PM new
I would like to join in, on the lawsuit... can we put together a class action lawsuit?
I've proven to paypal that I shipped out the stuff, and even proved that the buyer has to be the party tring to make the scam!
yet the ONLY reason I cannot get my money back is because I didn't pay for USPS tracking, as Bryant at paypal tells me that he knows that I did ship the stuff and that they did get it, but the policy is that I had to have bought USPS tracking in order to be protected.
posted on March 5, 2001 01:57:06 AM new
Count me in, I just found this message board but I have had problems since the beginning of last December. They froze my account due to 'likely unauthorized activity'. It had over 3800.00 at the time of the restriction. People kept paying for my auctions after the restriction , now it has about 9500.00 of MY MONEY which I cannot touch. They requested a credit card statement, and Drivers License copy. I have faxed the CC statement at least three times and the DL at least five times. Everytime it is something else, The fax of the DL or CC statement is illegible, faxed to the wrong person, etc... They also wanted my bank statement later on which I faxed at least twice, once they had a problem with it cause it wasn't current. Now they don't like my current bank statement because the address on it does not match that which I supplied them. I go to college in another state, but my bank account is at my parents address, where it has always been. Perhaps I should drop out of college and move back to my parents house so that the automatons at paypal can verify my address easier. They also wanted a utility bill which I am unable to provide as I live with roomates and there are no utilities billed to my name.
One of the lackeys I spoke to at PP customer service once mentioned that the cause of my restriction was possible credit card fraud. Here's the thing, I do not have a credit card attached to my account, never have. The only credit card I own is an American Express card which paypal does NOT EVEN ACCEPT. I called the numbers listed here for the higher ups at account review. Only Elizabeth Alejo returned my call last week, but then we got cut off midway through our conversation before I had been able to get any answers and she did not call me back.
After 60 plus calls to customer service 10 plus faxings, three threatening letters from my sister (an attorney) to Paypal's legal department, nothing has been resolved. I have yet to find out the cause of my account restriction. Paypal has provided no evidence whatsoever of suspicious activity. It has been three months now and I have suffered a total anal rape of privacy and dignity at the hands of this satanic beast of a company they call paypal. I contacted my local FBI office last thursday, but they haven't called me back yet. I will also file a complaint with the BBB tonight.
Anyone who wants to include me in the class-action suit, my e-mail is [email protected]
[ edited by sergecastro on Mar 5, 2001 01:58 AM ]
posted on March 5, 2001 03:24:57 AM new
here's some more links here for news organizations. I have contacted the news magazine shows for the three major networks. If we could get our stories on 20/20 or something similar, this could be just what paypal needs. Here are the links to contact these networks:
posted on March 5, 2001 04:38:48 AM new
We ALL need to contact these places (like 20/20, etc). Nothing will be done and no one will care if only a couple of people email or call them. It's going to take hundreds for them to even consider it. The Wall Street Journal is another that already did one story about the problems some time back. I recommend they be contacted by everyone as well. I have already contacted them, as well as MSNBC and a few others. I now see the Wall Street Journal page has been removed! I wonder why!! I did find the article on Izzy's page (I think it is) at http://www.ygoodman.com/ppwsj.html The author's email address is at the bottom of that page. The FBI's complaint sites are located;
Bob Sullivan at MSNBC (has already done one article on PP)
[email protected]
If we all FLOOD these places with enough email, complaints and calls, they'll have to listen. I've posted a few things in this thread before with other links in them, a search of my username will find them.
An interesting note; I was contacted a few days ago by a PainPal employee who saw my comments about them at the top of the pages at our website. Threatening me with liable, slander, etc. because I was "lying" as he put it. Of course I can PROVE everything I put there and back it up. They are all cold hard facts that cannot be disputed. Well of course, I sent him MUCH information about what is going on, my personal problem with them as well as the link to this thread. We'll see now if he can call me a liar. The idea.....threatening me with quote "action". HA!! They have a lot of room to talk, don't they!! I told him when PP gives back the funds they stole from my account, then and ONLY then would I consider removing it.
Clint Hamilton
http://orpheuscomputing.com [email protected]
[ edited by ClintH on Mar 5, 2001 04:46 AM ]
posted on March 5, 2001 05:03:57 AM new
(for those of you receiving email notification of posts here, I edited my last post and added more info). Something else I need to add....I saw on the page http://www.ygoodman.com/paypal.html a comment about someone getting a chargeback after two months. If you think that is bad, well, on one occasion, they did that to me FIVE MONTHS after the fact!! Then expect me to still have the tracking information of the items sent to that customer. It's time these jerks stop blaming their members that are in good standing (WERE in good standing I should say) for their incompetence. We members are not the CIA, FBI, or professional investigators. We cannot be expected, and more importantly, don't even have the means if we wanted, to research the background, habits, records, finances, etc of every single person that sends us funds!! That's ludicrous. This is THEIR job and THEIR JOB ALONE to do this and when it fails, it is THEIR FAULT and THEIR FAULT ALONE and NO ONE is to blame but THEM! Yet they try and lay the blame on us, due to their incompetence, their lack of security, their lack of validation, and try and make us the "responsible" party, like WE did something wrong!! That's a load of.....you know what. Now, time for my valium....again.
posted on March 5, 2001 07:45:14 AM new
hello everyone,
Well my phone bill will be significantly higher and sombody's e-mail box should be a little fuller.
Thank you to those who supplied even more contacts. I have covered all the bases so far and now am in search of more contacts. Looks like my hometown is a next hit as they just thrive on consumer abuse..and boy are we all getting a dose of it.
I have escalated your issue once again. I am sorry for the delays you have encountered.
Hi Sergecastro,
I have referred your case back to the party that was in touch with you last week.
Hi Clinth,
Charge backs can come in several months after the fact and users do need to keep the tracking information on file to not have liability for the charge back.A credit card user has 60 days (in general) to file a complaint and then there is the issue of reporting the charge back, all of which can add some time to the notification process.
posted on March 5, 2001 12:56:20 PM new
Hello PaypalDamon,
**BIG HUGZ**
Well S.U.'s account is free but mine is still frozen like popsickle : (
Ok, I know..patience is a virtue and all good things in due time.*wink*..Now hurry up! *LOL*
ok nevermind.. I just got mail and you are put back up on that pedestal...for now.: )
Fellow Victims:
I am convinced there is an angel here to help us all. Talk with Damon about your issues. I swear he is the only human among the world of BORG at Paypal.
posted on March 5, 2001 04:43:24 PM new
Anyone having problems with PayPal? That's like asking if the sun comes up everyday!
Please see my post regarding problems as a BUYER, under "Buyers Beware". Paypal fradulently freezes buyers' banking accounts (not just paypal accounts). The problems with Paypal involve everyone who uses their system! Get out, get out while you can!
posted on March 5, 2001 04:56:37 PM new
Statement incorrect? I think not! You have put holds on TWO of my banking accounts. If you dispute this, I will let you talk to my bank! Whoops. You can't talk to my bank because of PRIVACY issues, right? Need my driver's license before you deal with this? Facts are facts, pal. You are "holding" the funds from more than one of my banking accounts for the same purchase, for the same amount. Quit your attempts at damage control and deal with the TRUTH!
I responded to your original thread as well. The problem was in the payment option chosen on the send money screen. A detailed explanation is on your original post and I would be willing to clarify it for you.
posted on March 5, 2001 05:36:43 PM new
Youda, I had this problem a little while ago with paypal and this is how my bank told me to remedy it. DON'T pay with electronic check sercured against your credit card. Pay with the straight credit card option. If you have a Debit card you will not be charged a fee by the bank for this option BUT paypal will. You see when you pay by check it don't cost paypal a thing they are charged a fee for credit cards. Paypal as we know originally was free for both credit card and bank users then they started charging cedit card user because they were being charged not there is a fee for checks as well. So my advice pay by straight credit card. Your bank account will not be double charged and then put on hold.
posted on March 5, 2001 05:44:42 PM new
Hi,
The other option, for those users that want to pay with a bank account, is to use echeck. The process is 3-5 business days in general, but you would not run into issues surrounding ACH (which is availabe for users that want to have immediate access without the delay).
posted on March 5, 2001 06:24:03 PM new
I *did* choose the echeck option. NOT the instant purchase option. I did NOT use a credit card option. Still, PayPal charged by debit card AND the checking account, resulting in a double charge. Repeat, I did just what you suggested, and it still ended up with a double-charge.
posted on March 5, 2001 06:37:25 PM new
One other thing, Paypaldamon.
Everyone on the internet could understand PayPal's need to protect itself from fraud. We would be happy to have more stringent "verification" to protect us all from fraud. But the problem with PayPal is that it is punishing reliable customers to protect the business at all costs. You're snatching the hard-earned money from sellers, and you're double-charging the buyers. (By the way, ANY excuse for these kinds of acts is unjustified and incredibly unprofessional, and so far removed from any established business practices as to be tantamount with criminal activity!)
The end result is the growing backlash from your customers. PayPal will *not* survive as an e-business considering the competitors and the speed at which these kinds of nightmares have been reported throughout the internet.
If PayPal doesn't find some other ways to "agressively" (said your founder) prevent fraud, then you won't have any business to protect.
Even a corner small Mom & Pop business gets a bad check. Fraud and dishonesty is, unfortunately, a part of life, internet or not. But, Mom & Pop doesn't shoot its customers to prevent a robbery. And, that is what PayPal is doing to its customers. You won't last another year on the internet unless you wise up and start making your customers' satisfaction a priority.
Go read Dale Carnagie. It's an old book, but the principles still work.
It is difficult for me to comment on what kind of transaction you did without having access to your account records, but I can speak to what the feature does or what it sounds like happened. I would be more than happy to look at it, but all customer transactions are the result of a customer logging in and requesting the transaction. The problem I have to report on my end is whether the messaging/choice of payment option was clear when it was done.
This is why I was recommending the echeck option over instant ach as an option for all users ( I generally post to a problem and then explain where the problem was for the benefit of the other users).
I have read many of Dale Carnegie's books, in addition to numerous other books on customer service and I am listening to what you have stated. I am trying to clarify a perception that we have double-billed when this is not the case based on the payment option apparently selected.
Believe me, I am not trying to sound combative with you, but email/board postings can be a tough medium to convey intent at times.
posted on March 5, 2001 07:22:16 PM new
Paypal, I appreciate your tone. However, does it *matter* what kind of transaction I iniated? If *any* of your options double-charges a customer, then it is wrong. As I said on another thread, no reputable company *ever* double-charges a customer for *any* reason as a matter of policy!
You defended double-charging on another thread (Buyers Beware of Paypal) as a means to make sure that PayPal got payment for Instant Purchases. Now you say it doesn't happen.
Understandably, PayPal wants to be sure it is reimbursed for the funds it's paid out of its own pocket to advance the buyer the funds for an instant purchase. But, that assurance is already granted by the "authorization" and "approval" of the debit from the buyer's bank that happens when the PayPal user clicks "send money."
Holding funds from two sources is just not anything that any business community could ever defend without being absolutely ludicrous! Where did I, in any agreement, say that it was OK for PayPal to charge me twice, and withhold monies from more than one account, until it got paid once?????? I didn't. I'd have remembered that.
Please don't advance the theory that PayPal doesn't double-charge! This is no misconception or misunderstanding. It happens. It happens a lot on PayPal. You charge more than one account to "make certain" that you get your money. In the meantime, the person whose accounts you've tied up are, far and wide, unaware of the multiple holds on their accounts. When it is a credit card as the second charge, the person never "sees" the charge because it is cancelled by PayPal after the electronic transfer is completed from the e-check. But, when a debit card is used, or a credit card that charges DAILY interest on purchases from the moment of inception, then the buyer *does* see the charge.
Granted, in most cases, the second charge is cancelled or dropped once the first charge is paid by a "hard post" to PayPal. But that does *not* excuse that the second charge was made, and the funds from two sources are seized by PayPal, until confirmation of the e-transfer from the buyer's bank.
The only reason more people haven't complained is because PayPal removes one of the charges before the customer ever sees their statements (usually issued once a month).
The "customer service" angle, not getting enough clarity to the PayPal users, isn't the problem here. The problem is that PayPal is double-charging, period. Whether the double-charge exists for only a couple of days is NOT the point! The point here is that you are double-charging for any reason, for any option.
Thanks for the response. I think the distinction that we may be butting heads on a little bit is the word "charge".
If you had one transaction done and you were charged twice it would be an error and would need to be corrected. This would be for a user sending a straight payment or sending a transaction on a credit card. These items would charge only once.
If you had one transaction using a feature that allows you to make payment before the money actually clears in, you are using a service. The instant ach is a service that allows users to have immediate access to money that has not cleared into our system yet by securing it against the credit card on file. This places a hold on the card that does not charge unless the transaction coming from the bank account fails.
The only money taken out is from the ach transfer from your bank account.The user has not lost any money and has not been charged twice.
posted on March 5, 2001 09:03:01 PM new
You said above, "The only money taken out is from the ach transfer from your bank account.The user has not lost any money and has not been charged twice. "
Then why is the money GONE from both of my accounts if I have not been charged twice? Why is there a charge on both my debit card and a checking account if I haven't been charged twice? Why does the bank tell me that BOTH charges are on their way to PayPaL? And why does my bank tell me that the only way to stop both charges from being debited from my accounts is if PayPal cancels one of the transactions, a fact that PayPal refuses to do?
You'd think that PayPal would consider cancelling one of the charges NOW, or offering to talk to my bank to cancel one of the charges if they were concerned about their customer, especially given how upset I have obviously been! You'd think that if PayPal was interested in my business, that Paypal would consider that my account has always been "good" and try to resolve the dispute to the CUSTOMER'S SATISFACTION! Instead, I get "service" and defenses, and excuses, and outright denials of what I know to be FACT! Did you really read Dale Carnagie? If so, you missed the point! PayPal lost at least one customer today. I will *never* deal with PayPal again, not as a seller and not as a buyer. My words will cause doubt in others' minds, no matter what you say to defend PayPal. Now, was all that really worth the way PayPal has responded to me today? Is the lousy bit of money you have stolen from me for a few extra days really going to be worth it? Wouldn't it have been much easier to have had a RESPONSIVE customer "care" service that quietly resolved this TWELVE HOURS AGO?
You justify double-charging like this by calling it a "service." This is not a service. Do you really believe that any PayPal user will knowlingly authorize payments when that transaction would result in being charged twice with the hope that PayPal will cancel one of them in the next 3-4 days? A service? This is not a service! This doesn't benefit anyone, as you claim. The seller can't transfer the funds or receive a check from PayPal for 3-4 days whether they are paid by Instant Purchase or e-check or a credit card! Their money isn't any more "liquid" no matter HOW I pay! The buyers' accounts still have frozen assets on both accounts, instead of one, and this neither speeds up or delays payment to a seller. The "service" of double-charging doesn't speed anything. The only "service" here is double-jeopardy for the buyer, the same delay in transferring the funds for the seller, and a great deal of "service" for PayPal. This is not customer orientated, it's strictly as a way for PayPal to float funds for a couple more days so they make a bigger profit from the transaction.
Now, believe it or not, I do have a life beyond PayPal. You can call this whatever you want. You can defend or justify it. But as soon as I'm certain that the seller in my auction has their funds safely out of PayPal's hands, I'm closing everything down. PayPal is dangerous.
posted on March 5, 2001 10:32:56 PM new
paypaldamon: "60 days"??? Then how do explain THREE HUNDRED DAYS in one of my cases? It is not in PP's TOS that everyone MUST save ALL tracking information PERMANENTLY. But I'm sure PP has another excuse and 'way out' of this one too. I want it understood that I have nothing against you personally, it's paypal that I definitely have something serious against, as well as thousands of others. I think you are just here maybe for paypal's PR and are some sort of a "puppet" for them, and are possibly "directed" on what exactly to say. Just a guess.
I just think........in fact I KNOW, (again, nothing personal with you) that people here and elsewhere are just SICK of paypal's BS, double-talk, "legal-ease" & excuses for their sheer incompetence in the validation & security of those that pay via 'fraudulent' funds to sellers. PP should go after THEM and NOT US. These a-holes are the criminals, NOT US.THEY are who PP should be harrassing, NOT US.THEY are who should have to suffer for paypal's screwups, NOT US. I for one will CERTAINLY NOT pay in ANY WAY, SHAPE OR FORM for a 'screw-up' company like paypal's problems. You should work for another place; ALL of their employees should work for another place. I personally could never work for a place that treated it's members like this, putting them through HELL, giving them health problems, business problems, etc, etc. Paypal is not only going to have to deal with lawsuits, theft reports, fraud reports, and so on, but they are also going to have deal with punitive damages.
Clint Hamilton http://orpheuscomputing.com [email protected]
posted on March 6, 2001 02:27:50 AM new
Hi Gang,
Believe me when I say that I know what ya'll are going thru. I damn sure didn't have as much at risk as many of you, but it's the principle of the matter that needs correction.
Damon may be a 'puppet', but we all know what goes with the territory of PR and damage control.You do your best but you have to answer to someone higher up the ladder. One man can not solve it all, w/out help. Even Christ himself couldn't do it all alone.
It is up to US to help ourselves. We have the personal right,and the means of doing it. With each others help and support,some of the ways and contacts are here on this board.Follow the links and fill out those forms, it can't hurt, right?
Being angry and mad is very appropriate. However, when emotions cloud a clear mind, rationale goes out the window and so does communication and any chance you have of success. This medium is so very easily miscontrued, and the hardest to communicate with. You can't hear the tone, see the face or watch the body language. To interpert what is being conveyed, you have to rely on experience, instinct and trust.
Hey Youda, you aren't by chance a redhead are you? *G* I feel some real anger and frustration there! Almost like looking in the mirror there for a second.
Clint was very correct in saying we need to let the governing bodies know what is going on with 'John Q Public'. The more that know, the more that will be aware of this escalating problem.If we have to become that annoying burr in the seat of their pants, so be it. Let's wake them up.
I have heard back from 2 emails I have sent out, (requesting more info), and this means someone is curious. Good sign eh ? Just because my problem is resolved does not mean I am through. WE all have rights as consumers and there are some pretty good laws on the books to protect us.
Seeing that PP doesn't fall under the Banking and Financial Institutions Guidlines, we have a chance to make history. Precedence just might be set with e-commerce if everyone helps themselves and each other.
regards,
Belinda
[ edited by pks on Mar 6, 2001 02:30 AM ]
[ edited by pks on Mar 6, 2001 02:38 AM ]
posted on March 6, 2001 04:55:58 AM new
Youda,
I'm sorry I confused you the preferred method to pay by for the buyer is Credit Card. This way your account is only charged once and Paypal actually has to pay for the service they are charging for. With E-check it don't cost Paypal anything for the service they provide but they still charge the seller. At least when you pay by credit card they are charged a fee and earning the money they charge.
posted on March 6, 2001 06:13:31 AM new
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
My paypal account was restricted since October 2000. I have email them and have not getting reply. On Feb' 2001 my paypal account was locked and I get a email back from paypal and told me that my account is closed and no appeal is allow. My paypal account have about $4,800 and all this money came from selling item on ebay. I dont know why my account was restricted and lock. I sent every information to paypal to investigate my case, but without getting reply. I am a honest person selling item in ebay with 269 all positive feedback. I dont understand why paypal can took all my money without giving a reason.
Below is the email paypal sent to me
Dear Mr.Chan,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
In order to protect all PayPal customers and the quality of our service, we
take violations of our Terms of Use very seriously.
Dear Mr.Chan,
Thank you for contacting PayPal.
In order to protect all PayPal customers and the quality of our service, we
take violations of our Terms of Use very seriously.
Following an investigation, this account has been permanently closed due to
violations of our Terms of Use. This decision may not be appealed.
Violations of our Terms of Use that could constitute criminal conduct may
be reported to law enforcement authorities.
If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact us again.
Sincerely,
PayPal Account Review Department
Original Message Follows:
-------------------------
Form Message
account number: 1662927074095201599
email address: [email protected]
first name: Keef
last name: Chan
account type: premium
country type: Domestic
customer type: website
red carpet user: no
restriction status: PREV - Violating Exit Account
message type: locked webform
customer message: Hail
Thank for reading.
This the only email I get after my account retricted for 4-5 month.
Keef
posted on March 6, 2001 06:51:39 AM new
Hello Everyone.. First of all i'd like to say, before i go off on Paypal, that my Problem recently was rectified, & i think it was Damon who was the catalyst. Granted.. My money wasen't anywheres near what most of you are into, & as one said here, my fight was mostly of a Principle nature, but none the less i wasen't any less Pissed, then any of you are right now. Granted.. I'm over it.. I don't know that i'll use paypal again, because they are not a company thats built on honor, integrity, & good customer service. I think they use to be (Just my opinion).. I had used their customer service when they first opened their doors.. You remember.. When they had their phone number for customer support listed right on their web page? Those are days long gone. Now they have No real customer service (per-say).. All they have are excuses, denials, & just plain old dead silence.
Now for my catch on why things are the way they are. Its very simple in my eyes. Unfortunatly its the foundation that many companies have been built on. "Suppy & Demand". They have a service they supply to over 6,000,000 people. Can you imagine taking the moneys of just 1% of those 6 million.. Just do it to some of the biggest money makers & you've got a nice sizable imcome for yourself. $20,000 here, $5,000 there, $15,000 here... Get the point? In the process you've pissed off 1% of your customers, & their making a fuss on a couple boards, but Paypal knows most of 99% doesn't have any idea's about these boards..
So wheres Paypals incentive to "Do the right thing? We know the person making the rules (as the go along I might add) has no business morals, & doesn't care about the customer. So where is their incentive to stop screwing people>l
Rhodes Inc.
M Rhodes (CEO)
posted on March 6, 2001 08:43:35 AM new
I think every company has it's "robinhoods".
But as of yet the person I've been dealing with, a guy named BRYANT, emailed me convinced that he knows that I did ship and does not contest that. He justs keeps telling me about paypal's idiotic policy and that I did not get tracking info on the package.
The funnt thing is that I've proven that the people that bought from me were either lying and they were lying, no question about it.
They gave conflicting info to me and paypal. I contested the info and proved that the perpertrator was the buyer yet BRYANT says that in fradulent charges there are no winners. Yet my account is -203.05 so Paypal and the buyers won this one because Paypal ignores the facts and just wants the easy way out.
I've asked if the buyer is being held accountable, considering the facts I submitted. Yet paypal tells me they cannot tell me. I deserve to know... hell for $203.05 I should find out
I'm currently working on a paypal victim website and will post the url when it's ready so that I can broadcast the problems paypal has and how it's victims are treated during "investigations", that appear to normally result in paypal being reimbursed but not the actual victim... it's customer.
[ edited by izzzy12k on Mar 6, 2001 08:47 AM ]
posted on March 6, 2001 08:55:43 AM new
Sorry, Izzy. I'm no fan of paypal (you can visit my payment service ratings and see for yourself) but this one's not their fault. They dont make these rules, the credit card company does. And if you dont follow them, there is nothing they can do about it. The credit card company charged them back and the only way they can recover their money is if YOU followed the rules and have proof of delivery. It is not paypal who cheated you, it is your buyer. There is no reason why Paypal should take the loss for YOUR mistake. It doesnt make a difference if the buyer lied to you or to paypal. The only thing that matters is that YOU don't have proof of delivery as required.
If you have your own merchant account and dealt directly with the buyer, you would still lose. You took a gamble and saved 40 cents on delivery confirmation. You ran into a lying buyer and lost. It's as simple as that.
When you signed up for the service, you agreed to follow their rules. The moment you didn't, you accepted the risk.
There are a lot of good reasons to avoid Paypal. There are lots of negative posts on the web. The problem is separating the ones where paypal screwed up from the ones where the buyer or the seller did.
please note some have forms to fill out )
