auctionee
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posted on January 26, 2001 10:59:01 AM new
The FTC's interpretation of the law is
"an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement—or omits information—that is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances and is "material" or important to a consumer’s decision to buy or use the product."
Read all about it here:
http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/policystmt/ad-decept.htm
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rosiebud
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posted on January 26, 2001 11:04:11 AM new
captainkirk ~ I would stick with the legal ones. I am one of those people who follow the legal routes, no matter what.
Joanne ~ the same thing as his other auction when he says, as his description.(edited out payment info)
Just as the Title says!
[ edited by rosiebud on Jan 26, 2001 11:09 AM ]
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busybiddy
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posted on January 26, 2001 11:19:21 AM new
Why should an E-Bay buyer have to be super smart, super savvy, super intuitive, whatever!
If that's what I need to be to buy on e-Bay, then forget it, I'll go elsewhere. I'm tired of hearing that the buyer deserved to get screwed because he didn't look hard enough at an auction and didn't pick up on the "clues." That's just total BULL. Why should he (or anyone) have to?
It's up to the seller to COMPLETELY and ACCURATELY describe the item. In no way did this seller do that. If I asked my 10 year old to write a description of that box, even he would have enough common sense to say BOX ONLY. What was so hard about that? BOX ONLY !!! Seven letters that would have made all the difference in the world.
The seller cleverly worded the ad. CLEVER? Hardly. I'd use SNEAKY, DECEITFULLY, or another more descriptive word that ACCURATELY describes what he did.
How any other seller could condone this is beyond me. This type of activity hurts ALL E-bay sellers. Word of this gets around and how many potential buyers won't even bother to look on E-Bay for what they want? I mean, jeez, you practically have to be a brain surgeon to keep from getting screwed!
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cmbtboots
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posted on January 26, 2001 12:21:58 PM new
This is in response to the post regarding if a child was in danger or you felt the child was in danger If I felt it was necessary, HELL, YES I would steal the child out of the home.
Someone else wrote
An elderly man was beaten to death in a store parking lot. A young man was seen beating him, and 911 was called. Before the police arrived, the man died. The bystanders stood around "following proper channels" waiting for the police to arrive. And someone died as a result. (This happened in a Maine supermarket)
I feel these bystanders not only should of helped, there is a moral responsibility which demands it. Although it is technically and legally wrong to interfere to try to save an abused child by breaking the law. Sometimes there is a compelling moral reason to break the law of the land, and not to get into a religious thing, but I believe God's law surpasses the law of the land.
If there is someone who is taking advantage of another person who is innocent or less suspecting (aka newbie bidding on an empty box thinking it is a Playstation) I think it is wrong to say, "Gosh, sucks for them, but not my problem".
One more thing, these boards have been full with people complaining about the terrible writing skills of eBay sellers, complaints of incorrect spelling, bad grammar or whatever. Who has NOT ever bought something from a seller they considered grammatically-challenged. This could be the assumption by those who have bid on these auctions, that the seller just plain does not know where the comma should go rather than the seller was out to intentionally defraud them?
God knows there was never any IQ test given to sellers before permitting them to list. If there was, good chance I would not be selling on eBay!
By the way, did ya all hear about my tax thing??
Edited to fix my own bad grammar
[ edited by cmbtboots on Jan 26, 2001 12:31 PM ]
[ edited by cmbtboots on Jan 26, 2001 12:34 PM ]
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oxford
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posted on January 26, 2001 01:02:47 PM new
I have found another very active auction very similar to the auction discussed in this thread.
There are a few folks who have been contacting safe harbour about the auctions - would you like me to send it to you? (was it Meya and Zazzie?). Anyway, if you would like me to e-mail the URL to you, please send me your e-mail addresses and I will do so!
Barb
[email protected]
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cmbtboots
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posted on January 26, 2001 01:15:33 PM new
email me please Barb.
[email protected]
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faithgirl
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posted on January 26, 2001 01:50:13 PM new
please e-mail me also [email protected]
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cmbtboots
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posted on January 26, 2001 02:02:03 PM new
Never mind
[ edited by cmbtboots on Jan 26, 2001 04:04 PM ]
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oxford
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posted on January 26, 2001 02:32:30 PM new
Actually, the one bid on the currently unnamed auction up to $140.xx was an Auction Watch member or lurker, and the seller has retracted the bid, as the "new bidder" bid with a user ID that let others know what the auction was really for - a box.
Another of this seller's auctions have been cancelled. I guess things are "getting done!"
Barb
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cmbtboots
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posted on January 26, 2001 02:35:48 PM new
PLEASE IGNORE MY LAST POST!
To the former high bidder in the auction in question, You Rock! I wish I had thought of it first!! I am blowing you a kiss right now!!!
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rapid1688
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posted on January 26, 2001 03:12:42 PM new
I'm neither monkey nor Einstein, I bid because I like your item and I trust you.
If you were the seller, you want to sell your empty box, will you "wording" the description likes that? Be real!
"Nothing wrong with it"? I just want to buy something, I'm not taking my PhD test.
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cdnbooks
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posted on January 26, 2001 03:38:00 PM new
I saw a book sold a couple of weeks ago for the expected $150 price, or at least the expected price for a Very Good copy.
Somewhat buried in the description glowing about the great condition of the cover etc, etc the seller slid into the middle of the listing "some of the pages are not attached to the spine"
In this case all the necessary words were there but the raving tone of the add was clearly intended.
Someone is going to be very disappointed.
Bill
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dubyasdaman
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posted on January 26, 2001 09:31:37 PM new
"an ad is deceptive if it contains a statement—or omits information—that is likely to mislead consumers acting reasonably under the circumstances and is "material" or important to a consumer’s decision to buy or use the product."
This statement doesn't apply here.
a) The ad does not contain a statement that is likely to mislead consumers. The ad in its entirety clearly says that you are bidding on a box and a receipt. The photo showing the factory sealed tape is irrelevant. Many sellers use photos of similar items instead of taking new ones.
b) The seller didn't omit any information that would enable a reasonable buyer to make a wise buying decision. A reasonable buyer would read this auction listing and not touch it with a 10 foot pole given the starting bid for an empty box and a receipt.
The ad is for a box. There is simply nothing else to read into it. I'm not defending the seller here. As I said before, he very likely intended to defraud. But the auction listing itself is so clear (that you're bidding on a box) that there is simply no way to prove that he did in fact intend to deceive. Again, when you ship the item exactly as described in the listing there is no fraud involved, only careless, lazy bidders who didn't want to take the time to do their homework by emailing the seller with a few questions.
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Zazzie
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posted on January 26, 2001 10:04:02 PM new
dubyasdaman says "a) The ad does not contain a statement that is likely to mislead consumers. The ad in its entirety clearly says that you are bidding on a box and a receipt. The photo showing the factory sealed tape is
irrelevant. Many sellers use photos of similar items instead of taking new ones. "
when one sees a factory sealed box one assumes that no one has opened it and removed the contents.
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Zazzie
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posted on January 26, 2001 10:05:27 PM new
-----and I suppose if the tape is MISSING or tapered with then the product is not as sold"
Walk Like a Diva
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nanastuff
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posted on January 27, 2001 01:31:05 AM new
Evidently Ebay decided that there was an "intent to deceive"....all of those auctions have been cancelled. Yes, I did email one bidder on one of these auctions. Then I reported to Ebay all three of these auctions. I emailed the bidder because the auction would have probably ended by the time Ebay took 2-3 days to get to it (will be happy to c & p Ebay's exact response to me). I received a VERY thankful email from this person that I emailed. And, NO, I did not use a fake name or fake email addy.....I used by EBAY email and username! Yes I would do it again under these circumstances and would certainly hope someone would do it for me or any of you.
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mivona
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posted on January 27, 2001 04:30:46 AM new
Well done nanastuff!
I am so pleased the auctions got ended, and that the bidder didn't get ripped off.
I would dearly love to have some of the sellers come here, to explain their wordings and rationales for not being more explicit. Could you please invite them, or email me the details at yahoo.com so that I may do so?
Dubya seems to think that there is no responsibility for sellers to be explicit, and that no one can read listings wrongly. He quotes the starting price as an indicator of the item, but we all know that quite valuable things are sometimes started at $0.01. And how will he rationalise those auctions that started at $400+ for an empty box, controllers or perhaps a couple of games?
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squinkle99
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posted on January 27, 2001 04:45:52 AM new
The counter is over 78,000 now. How amazing!
I am glad that the buyer is taking it so well. I would be just sick with myself if it had happened to DH or me.
[ edited by squinkle99 on Jan 27, 2001 06:21 AM ]
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loosecannon
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posted on January 27, 2001 04:48:26 AM new
You mean I've been doing this all wrong? I've been pounding the pavement for years looking for good collectibles and all I need to do for sales like that is to offer a cardboard box?
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abacaxi
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posted on January 27, 2001 06:05:06 AM new
dubyasdaman -
He didn't break the law?
There are LAWS in the US and all states against misrepresentation, false and misleading advertising (this was deliberately misleading), and obtaining money under false pretenses. Companies get nailed by the FTC, and various state agencies for this with depressing regularity.
How many among us would read that item listing and think we are bidding on a PS2 game console in addition to the box and receipt? Given the state of illiteracy in the US ... enough to make this particular little scam profitable. Many people wouldn't recognize the grammatical rules and the resulting change of meaning in the placement of ANY comma if their lives depended on it.
barrelracer
If I do something like that, I use a non-eBay mail account for it.
rosiebud
No one has the right to "steal" a child from the legal guardians.
Wrong. If a "reasonable person" would fear that the child's life is in imminent danger and that greivous bodily harm is likely to happen before th cops get there, they can do whatever is necessary to keep that child safe UNTIL the cops or other authorities get there, including removing the child from the vicinity of the danger.
If it means keeping the child in your house, and holding the berserk parent at bay with a shotgun, it's OK. (it's been done, but not by me).
If it means taking the abuser out with a kick to the crotch (in a KMART parking lot), grabbing a toddler and bolting for the store to call 911 ... it's legal and I've done it. The way that man was belting the kid doesn't even belong in a boxing ring.
If it means snatching a 2-year old (no adult in sight) out of the gutter next to a 4-lane street with 45MPH traffic and driving them to the closest pay phone to call the cops ... it's legal and I've done it. In a door-to-door search of the apartments next to the street, they found the mom, passed out drunk.
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sophie89
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posted on January 27, 2001 07:52:45 AM new
Thank you Abacaxi ~ Thank you for having the courage and MORALS to Save/Help those children. You are one of the Good Ones.
There seems to be another Box auction running today. 0 feedback seller but a member for over a year. It only has one bid so it's low right now.
I have reported it to Ebay and I'll be watching to make sure they end it, or I will do the *Illegal* thing and contact the BIDDER/s.
I'll e-mail anyone intereseted.
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nanastuff
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posted on January 27, 2001 08:49:11 AM new
Hi sophie89, Yes I found it and also reported it to Ebay....no you do not have to email the bidders as it is still very early. Ebay seems to be removing these now fairly quickly.
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squinkle99
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posted on January 27, 2001 09:06:01 AM new
OT--but, abacaxi, your story is going to make me think of the KMart child all day, at least. Whatever happened as a result? Is the child in a better environment?
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abacaxi
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posted on January 27, 2001 09:33:47 AM new
squinkle and sophie -
In a marvelous example of karma in action, the guy had outstanding warrants for a variety of things (I don't remember exactly what for, because this was years ago) and went straight to jail for them for quite a while. If he had been a nicer person he would probably still be loose.
I don't know what happened to the girl ... I never did more than give a statement to the cops at the scene.
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nanastuff
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posted on January 27, 2001 11:06:34 AM new
Well now.....a few more have been listed....but the wording has been changed. GEEEEEEEEE.......be sure and read carefully (sorry just an old smart a** from way back)
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cmbtboots
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posted on January 27, 2001 12:07:39 PM new
Bravo abacaxi Somtimes it is necessary for those who, for whatever reason, cannot protect themselves and the world would be a MUCH, MUCH better place if more people looked out for each other rather than just stepping over the bodies and muttering "ain't my problem."
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cmbtboots
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posted on January 27, 2001 12:14:23 PM new
It looks like the seller in one of these auctions realizes that people are on to him and probably notifying the high bidders in his auctions because one auction that began two days ago was ended by the seller with a high bid of $20.00, so while he may no longer be able to get $400.00, $20.00 is probably better than nothing.
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mivona
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posted on January 27, 2001 01:37:34 PM new
I have emailed a couple of the sellers (including the $20.50 ended one) and invited them here.
Fingers crossed, as I would LOVE to hear their side of it.
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dennis1001
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posted on January 27, 2001 01:53:54 PM new
Looks like another one:
*** auction reference deleted, sorry ***
How do you notify eBay? EMail SafeHarbor?
[ edited by dennis1001 on Jan 27, 2001 02:45 PM ]
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oxford
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posted on January 27, 2001 02:03:30 PM new
DEFINATELY another one, Dennis! Good find.
I'm not sure how to notify eBay or how others have handled the other ones - Cmbtboots? Zazzie? Maui? Nanastuff?
I think Dennis's post will be taken out soon due to the fact the auction is listed, but I saved it if someone wants it by e-mail.
DENNIS - better get rid of that auction reference up there !
[ edited by oxford on Jan 27, 2001 02:13 PM ]
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