posted on February 2, 2001 04:14:57 PM new
cmbtboots - Noooooo, I did not invite that seller here. I just emailed and asked if it was a box or not and they replied that it is just for the box. So if you would like to invite him/her, please do.
posted on February 2, 2001 04:37:35 PM new
The auction item number that was listed by Napcruz hopefully can be unlocked very soon because the seller is here. (it is not me, although I wish it was) Speak up seller I know you are reading this.
posted on February 3, 2001 03:07:35 PM new
I have been reporting these bloody auctions to Ebay when they come up. There was a UK one that was listed in Computers & Games: Hardware: Playstation Systems, and I reported it for being misleading as it stated Unwanted Playstation 2 Original Box. No pic. P&P £3.
It went up to over £310 - at least $450 FOR A BOX! The seller finally pulled it, saying that he had sold it privately.
But Ebay's response? I got it today, with them saying :
"I have reviewed the information you have sent in, as well as the auction, and determined that the auction falls within our policy guidelines. Therefore, no action has been taken. It appears as though the auction title and description clearly indicate what is for sale on auction. However, I appreciate your help in keeping eBay a fun and safe
place to trade!"
WTF???
This auction was set up to DECEIVE! If it had ended with a high bidder, they would have been RIPPED OFF! And Ebay says that ok with them! But, apparently, no one is supposed to tell the poor bidders that they MAY be making an itsy-bitsy mistake? A nice moral high-ground you got there, Ebay... Any ideas where we can expose this amazing stance? AT the VERY least, Ebay needs to make a separate category for the bloody BOXES, so that they can at least be seen for what they are, and it gives the buyers some comeback if they have been inappropriately listed.
Secondly,....
I email the sellers of these box auctions, asking if it is a box or a system, and suggest that if it is a box, they may wish to be more explicit about it. And if it is a system, they may wish to amend their listing because there have been so many box auctions lately. I also say that in the absence of any reply, I will refer the listing to Ebay because it is misleading.
I do this, and am informed by a seller that it is for a box. Fine.. but then I get another email saying:
"you're a #*!@ b**** for interfering in this auction!!! you told the bloke who was leading the auction that it was 4 a box only & because of that i'm
going to make your life a f***ing misery!
slag,b****!
get a f***ing life!
you've got 2 get out more you ugly cow!"
So.. I will report it to his ISP, and I want to report it to Ebay because of his threat to make my life a misery. But where do I do this? I did not contact his bidders, awaiting his response before reporting him to Ebay (following all legal routes).
I went to Safeharbor, and looked at Member Violations: Email from other Users: Receiving harassing emails and their canned response is: "Unfortunately, in this case private email between members is beyond our control." But this guy should not be allowed to use Ebay if this is his response.
I am really cross. Ebay doesn't give a fart about bidders being ripped off in this way, it doesn't give a fart about users being abused either.
posted on February 3, 2001 03:14:10 PM new
You are right, mivona. I really don't know what to tell you to do. I also reported that UK auction and ever since then I have been receiving porno emails all from a UK addy. I don't open them, but they are entitled things like "Do you like sex?" and "Are you horney"... When I email them back to ask them to stop, of course they just bounce back to me. Please watch your mail and open nothing.
posted on February 3, 2001 03:21:46 PM new
Mattmon: I'm curious why you would bid on a box only, raising the bid to the reserve price and then withdraw the bid placing your excuse for retracting as seller is a scam, or some such nonsense, since you were so defensive about your right to sell an empty box for as much as you could. How many ID's do you use on eBay? The PS2 box w/vertical stand just ended at $365.00 with what appears to be some bidders with the same email accounts. Shilling as well to dupe unaware bidders into bidding higher?
posted on February 4, 2001 02:31:39 AM new
cmbtboots -
Can you please send me the link to napcruz and chepistar auctions you are talking about so I can see what they have done too? Thank you.
NYC Rocker @aol.com
posted on February 4, 2001 08:13:03 AM new
Reporting the aucyions to Ebay is great. IF they doing anything it helps keep thing smooth for others...HA. But contacting the bidders is wrong. It IS auction interference, and Ebay has a right to take action again you. This is no different than the other threads we post saying someone contacted our buyer and said "blah blah" about us. Whether it is true or not, contacting another's buyer is wrong. The entire Ebay / online auction process is based on THE BUYER BEWARE!
(P.S. To clarify my position...these box auctions are wrong and bad for Ebay...but we must allow them to be the police. No mob justice.)
posted on February 4, 2001 11:18:43 AM new
That is all very well, leaving it to Ebay to police, but what if they don't do it?
It is quite clear from the responses I have received that they have opted out of taking any action against the box sellers. After initially cancelling the auctions, they now take no action whatsoever.
I can understand that it is very hard for some people to stand by and let people ripped off. Which is the greater crime?
posted on February 4, 2001 02:43:51 PM new
nycrocker: Done, I can't find napsters's link though, but you will get the idea.
mivona I am sorry you are receiving such obscene email. This guy sounds prettty P.O.ed that people are onto his scam, too damn bad! Perhaps he will think twice before trying to steal from others, not likely though.
Moderator: Can I post a link to one of Chepster's auctions? She is here and would not object. Do you need her to email you first? Let me know, I think many people would be interested in this auction. Napster has a great one too. Can they just request that they are allowed to link to the auctions or must they go through the 24 hour request thing?
This is a smart legal way for bidders of Playstation boxes to get clued in as to what these scam artists are doing, since it is probably unlikely that they are going to be reading these boards.
spleach: not short for free "spleach" is it? Actually there is a signifigant difference between emailing the bidders and asking them to go back and carefully reread the auction descriptions and question the seller to make sure they are actually bidding on a PS 2 and not a box AND emailing the high bidders and fabricating stories about this persons items, such as telling them they reek of smoke or cat urine when they, in fact do not.
posted on February 4, 2001 02:54:16 PM new
cmbtboots -
Thank you for the link! Chepistar, great idea!
But watch... people will bid on it anyway LOL!!! See Exec Girl's thread "Bidders Don't Read - Part 2" Ya know how some people say "Oh I didn't read the description, it's not that important"... LOL! I will die laughing if "chepi"s auction gets bids, and I would not be surprised. Anyway, it is an admirable thing you did in that auction. I really do hope it helps people.
Let's hope they read!
posted on February 4, 2001 05:56:50 PM newmoderator
If you need me to, I will be happy to e-mail you any info you would like! Thanks for being there for us NYCRocker
So far no bids ~ EG is right on the mark with that thread and it's predecessor, too! If my auction really runs for three days without a bid, we'll have to have a little chitchat with EG about her "magnetism"!
posted on February 5, 2001 12:42:17 PM new
Ebay has decided they are "just a venue" once again. I love the way they can change their stance to suit the moment. After all, they are making money from these poor (ok, sometimes just stupid) bidders, who bid on boxes thinking they are Playstation systems.
Initially, Ebay was cancelling the auctions when it became clear they were going to result in some upset people. Now... every auction I have referred to them has come back as having been "determined that the auction falls within our policy guidelines. Therefore, no action has been taken."
They have no interest in the abusive email I received from the seller (though Hotmail has decided to close down his account).
Ebay won't do anything about the bidders being screwed, and no one else is supposed to warn them. If they pay by Money Order or wire transfer or Cashier's Check or cash they are just done, with very little comeback and no support. Paypal and Billpoint are not going to do chargebacks if they can say "It was correctly described - Ebay says so", and the credit card companies paying Paypal or Billpoint are going to also be on shaky ground, unless perhaps the item was listed in "Playstations", rather than "Other" or "Accessories". Anyone have any ideas of how advertising law could be used?
The only way out that I can think of is if Ebay sets up a category for empty boxes under Playstations, and then the bidders really HAVE to look where they are bidding. And there will always be some who will make a mistake. (I did it once, long ago, for a relatively small purchase - and I hate thinking someone is going to make a much larger mistake.)
Once the email policy is implemented, there is going to be NOTHING that anyone can do. I don't think I will be able to bear such an environment, and certainly won't be just mooching around as I have done. Another Ebay bidder bites the dust.
posted on February 5, 2001 12:48:47 PM new
I saw a box auction successfully end today and although I have a policy of Live and Let Live I can't stand somebody getting burnt for $400. I emailed the bidder and he was thankful.
posted on February 5, 2001 01:54:10 PM new
That is great, napcruz, and I am glad that people are willing to warn bidders. But what will happen when the email policy comes into action? What effect will that have on this "community" when no one will be able to be a good samaritan?
posted on February 5, 2001 02:23:05 PM newmivona I have no answers.
Chepi and I listed a dummy auction - great, but did it reach enough people? Is it cluttering an already crowded list. How does the honest sellers of PS2's feel about this? Is it worth the aggravation if the po'd box sellers sabotage our auctions, the 30¢ insertion fee is nothing if we can avoid somebody getting scammed.
Worse case scenarios I can see happening is sabotage.
1) Bid on the questionable auction and retract, stating the reason.
2) Win the auction and neg the sucker/scammer/scum.
The above two are vigilantism and could get out of hand that could hurt honest sellers.
My next comment is petty: But, Why do I have to pay 30¢ to police ebaY?
posted on February 5, 2001 02:25:21 PM new
Hi guys!!
Good to see this post is still going strong.
There is another forum that this subject is talked about and someone mentioned using an escrow service. I know nothing about this sort of thing but the poster said that you get to inspect the goods before the seller gets your money and if you are unhappy with your purchase you get your money back.
Why should eBay care that people are being ripped off by these punks? They get a much larger cut of $450.00 they they would off the real worth of a damn box.
As far as contacting bidders in these auctions, I think the idea behind hiding the email addresses is to prevent user spam (good idea), I believe that you can still email people, but you have to email through ebay and the email address won't be revealed to you. From what I understand, they don't read the emails, but it prevents spammers from sending bulk spam messages out to all those on their bulk mailing lists. Somebody please correct me if I am wrong.
To you guys receiving mail from the box sellers, perhaps consider getting an email address that you use ONLY for emailing the box sellers and bidders.
mivona
But what will happen when the email policy comes into action? What effect will that have on this "community" when no one will be able to be a good samaritan?
What will happen? What will happen is eBay will turn into the perfect utopia where Rosie will rule. Frightning isn't it??
Society is enhanced by people looking out for one another, not looking the other way and stepping over the bodies.
posted on February 5, 2001 02:39:52 PM newNapcruz I don't think bidding and winning in order to leave a negative is going to work because, 1. you will get a neg in return 2. If you do not pay , you will risk a NPB report filed. 3. I don't think the sellers will run the risk of continuing to list box auctions because sooner or later someone is going to go after these scum-bags and I think they are in this for the short term-big haul, make a couple big sales and disappear.
However, I think your's and Chepi's "fake" auctions are fantastic!! When I get some time I am going to put up a few. The more of these kinds of auctions that are up and running the better the chances of touching potential PS bidders. In fact please consider running a few at a time. Would either of you guys mind if I just copied the wording in your auctions?
I would love to hear from actual playstation sellers and hear their comments on this problem, maybe when I get some time I will invite them to join us here.
posted on February 5, 2001 04:09:16 PM new
Well, I just threw my 90 cents at eBay to do something they SHOULD have the balls to do themselves. Thanks for the great idea napcruz and chepi*
posted on February 6, 2001 01:13:41 AM new
After the email policy goes into effect, there will be NO chance of warning bidders that they may be bidding on a box auction, other than through bid retractions. (And how many bidders, especially new bidders, look for those?) Or the fake box auctions - and why should users have to pay for that?
Ebay already frowns on the bid retraction method of publicising the box auctions, and is going to do nothing about the box auction sellers.
But bidders ARE stupid... there is a box auction in Yahoo at the moment, stating straight out that "You are bidding on a Playstation 2 box with the receipt." and follows with "Disclaimer: Be sure you know what you are bidding on. E-mail **********@yahoo.com with any questions before you place a bid. I will not retract any bids and all bids are final. Buyer is responsible for verifying the item that they are bidding on. I am not responsible if you receive an item that is not what you think it is."
And STILL they bid... it is up to $260 now, with 13 hours to go and has had 16 bids. The fishy thing is, the first bidder put a flat $100 on it, even though the starting bid was only $10.
I almost feel that if bidders are THAT stupid, they deserve to lose.
posted on February 6, 2001 04:20:24 AM newmivona
Could it be a shill bid?
Please help restore my faith that there is just a bit of intelligent life out here! Mivona, that auction is very clearly stated. IMHO, if the boxes on eBay were worded like that I'd be with rosie on this one.
NYCRocker
Not a bid. EG where are ya?!?
napcruz and cmbtboots (and anyone else)
It is not the cost of policing eBay, try to consider them Welcome Wagon Fees ~ Spent wisely to greet our newbies with open arms in hopes that they find the GoodGuys. Sounds like asolid investment to me. I'd give a buck for a bidder that asks the right questions!
(edited because I haven't had any coffee yet)
chepistar here, there, and everywhere
[ edited by chepistar on Feb 6, 2001 04:22 AM ]
posted on February 6, 2001 06:11:16 AM new
OK...I have been doing some thinking on this (UH OH)...In a way, perhaps these box bidders are being hurt by being warned, more so than helping. Perhaps if more and more bidders are getting burned by these auctions, the more THEY will complain to Ebay. It would only take one to file suit and you bet cha Ebay will step in. Just a thought; what do you think?
I have only warned one bidder, in the very beginning of this thread, and that was because the auction only had an hour or so to go. I have asked every seller whether it is for a box or the actual playstation. I have also reported to Ebay the auctions. Just FYI.
posted on February 6, 2001 06:29:52 AM new
I understand where you are coming from on this, BUT, nanstuff, if you were burned by a box auction for $400 would you ever come back to eBay? IMHO, that's too expensive of a lesson to learn. I wouldn't come back ~ I'd run, and fast. There's a difference between "oops" and "911". If we were talking about ten dollars, that's a different story ~ a refresher course in "let the buyer beware". The "burn factor" isn't just a mild sunburn (oops), it's third degree burns (911). eBay takes care of this by locking the barn door after the horses run away.
I haven't had any direct contact with these bidders or sellers (except those who chose to harass me!). My part in this is more on the side of bidder protection than auction interference. The "box" auctions were listed to raise awareness and try to get bidders to read what they are bidding for ~ the REAL sellers won't mind being asked questions of their goods.
Am I making sense? No coffee still.
posted on February 6, 2001 09:16:08 AM new
What is the Neighborhood Watch Program?
Neighborhood Watch lets Yahoo! Auctions participants to voice their opinions about the items that are currently listed on our auction site.
Anyone with a positive rating is allowed to review an auction. This information will help our Customer Care Department identify auctions that might:
Contain adult items outside the Adult area
Look like spam
Be more appropriate in another category
Be in violation of our Terms of Service
The seller will be notified when an auction has been submitted to Neighborhood Watch three times. When an auction has been reported to Neighborhood Watch by three different users, the seller cannot resubmit this auction. If the auction item receives more reports, our Customer Care Department will be notified and appropriate action will be taken according to our Terms of Service.
Auctions are not deleted automatically. They will be reviewed by our Customer Care department prior to deletion. Once an auction has been deleted, the seller cannot resubmit the auction.
We hope this will help make Yahoo! Auctions a better and safer place for everyone. If we detect that a member is using this tool to rate auctions unfairly, we will take action to suspend the member's account.
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Rocker
here, there, and everywhere